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41mets · 2 July 2019, 01:05 AM

So I'm intrigued at a vintage Pepsi GMT, and it seems that, based on price point, the late 80s, early 90s GMT master it's really the only thing that I could consider.

This is new to me, and I'm doing research and reading things online and watching videos, but I'm interested in your take on things I should look for as both positives or negatives in these vintage pieces.

I'm including some photos of one that's available. It looks like it's in great condition, but I have no idea if it's been refinished significantly, how to know if there been potential replacement parts, and I'm wondering what you see in these photos, of this 1988 vintage GMT master.

Do you think box and papers are vital or is the market for these watches strong enough that getting something that a seller would guarantee is authentic without box and papers is an okay way to go?

Seems that the GMT master of this vintage can be had in the mid $8,000 range where has the GMT two of the same vintage is 3 to $4,000 more.

Thanks in advance!

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41mets · 2 July 2019, 02:51 AM

Photos

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1675-David · 2 July 2019, 04:29 AM

that case is way too soft for me, I'd keep looking if I were you

HarryLime · 2 July 2019, 04:37 AM

Looks like a service dial and hands. Should be <25 for that year.

jfmiii · 2 July 2019, 05:06 AM

junk.

definitely pass on that watch. curious what theyre asking for the 16570?

henrylee · 2 July 2019, 05:24 AM

If that’s a 1988 gmt then the dial, bezel, and likely the hands have been replaced.

41mets · 2 July 2019, 05:26 AM

Thanks for the help, every The Explorer was about 5850, no box or papers, though. Seem to be in really good shape, hard to tell what has been refinished. Similar one with box and papers was $1,000 more.

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southtexas · 2 July 2019, 05:31 AM

That’s quite a case there...mind sharing where that is?

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1665fan · 2 July 2019, 05:38 AM

From the looks probably most of those models are overpolished naked datejust and probably many service dials and hands....

swish77 · 2 July 2019, 05:45 AM

Looks like a late '90s 16700. What's the beginning of the serial number? That should tell the story more clearly.

Regardless if you've gotten the year wrong or it's a watch with swapped-out parts, that case has been polished way too much for my liking. I'd keep looking. You can do better.

lx384 · 2 July 2019, 06:16 AM

Shouldn't have a Swiss only dial if it is from 1988.

41mets · 2 July 2019, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southtexas

That’s quite a case there...mind sharing where that is?

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This is all new to me hence the post. Tarrytown Jewelers NY. What do you mean quote the case? Overpolished?

I knew it was a replacement dial... And they thought most likely.

My question is... Is there anything wrong with getting a watch with replacement dial /hands/bezel as long as the price is right? And with that said, whats the right price for original parts but not original?

Thanks!

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dhknola · 2 July 2019, 07:36 AM

Hey Mets - there is nothing 'wrong' per se as it will tell time.
I was thinking about getting a 'service 1675' (something with a nice old case but largely later service parts such as dial/hands/bezel) and fair prices seem to be around 5-6k. While you get 'a deal' on a watch of that nature, plan on not getting much return as they are not sought after at all by collectors, really just have a bare market value for the sum of the parts.

Kingface66 · 2 July 2019, 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mets

This is all new to me hence the post. Tarrytown Jewelers NY. What do you mean quote the case? Overpolished?

I knew it was a replacement dial... And they thought most likely.

My question is... Is there anything wrong with getting a watch with replacement dial /hands/bezel as long as the price is right? And with that said, whats the right price for original parts but not original?

Thanks!

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I know Tarrytown Jewelers, and they're fine for new, and, at least, current watches. But, I wouldn't trust them for vintage...or even 20 year-old pieces.
If they thought "most likely" that a dial was a replacement, but couldn't even confirm that, I would move on.
Buy the seller.

41mets · 2 July 2019, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingface66

I know Tarrytown Jewelers, and they're fine for new, and, at least, current watches. But, I wouldn't trust them for vintage...or even 20 year-old pieces.

If they though "most likely" that a dial was a replacement, but couldn't even confirm that, I would move on.

Buy the seller.

Thanks. They have a lot of vintage so it's a good place to go to look. And I appreciate everyone's insights here. This is why I reached out. Can't learn without asking!!!

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sillo · 2 July 2019, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mets

My question is... Is there anything wrong with getting a watch with replacement dial /hands/bezel as long as the price is right? And with that said, whats the right price for original parts but not original?

Thanks!

Nothing wrong with it as long as it doens't bother you.

Kingface66 · 2 July 2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mets

Thanks. They have a lot of vintage so it's a good place to go to look. And I appreciate everyone's insights here. This is why I reached out. Can't learn without asking!!!

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Absolutely! Always ask.
I 'm just saying that I would have a hard time buying an old watch, worth thousands of dollars, from a seller who didn't even know for sure whether the dial was a replacement or not. Because, if they're not sure whether one component of the watch is original, or not, how many others are they not sure about...or not revealing?

chrisawa · 2 July 2019, 01:08 PM

Case looks overpolished, dial and hands are later replacements. For this price I'd pass

patrolmi · 2 July 2019, 01:41 PM

If you want to find a Pepsi, or any example that is top notch for the collectors, without knowing exactly what you are doing-- you should definitely buy the seller, and i think these GMT's are starting in the 10-12 range... you can save a few thousand by getting a version like what you found, but you will sacrifice top line investment appreciation. If you find a deal, there's likely a reason ie. you get what you pay for! Patience.... there's a few really good threads on this forum that have a lot of info. You've come to the right place!

patrolmi · 2 July 2019, 01:43 PM

Also there's date codes / stamps on the bracelets. For collectors- those matter too. There's charts that show what would be historically correct based on the serial number. Oddly enough, value doesn't always go by what is visually pleasing. It goes by historically correct. AND this is a TOUGH crowd here!!

RobW · 2 July 2019, 04:52 PM

Well, if a watch of this kind in original and good condition start from $10,000-$12,000 and the watch your interested in with replacement dial and hands and polished case is going for $8,750 I think the price is not out of line. If your good with that as a solid daily watch that looks good but not commanding a collectable vintage price if you sold it, then go for it.

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JBZ · 2 July 2019, 11:24 PM

As long as you know what you're getting, it's priced accordingly, and you like it, I say go for it.

swish77 · 3 July 2019, 12:51 AM

Again, what is the beginning of the serial number? I wouldn't assume Tarrytown Jewelers knows what's going on with older Rolexes.

Here's my 16700, A-serial, bought in Osaka, Japan, in 1999. Looks to have the same dial as the 16700 in question.

41mets · 3 July 2019, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swish77

Again, what is the beginning of the serial number? I wouldn't assume Tarrytown Jewelers knows what's going on with older Rolexes.

Here's my 16700, A-serial, bought in Osaka, Japan, in 1999. Looks to have the same dial as the 16700 in question.

Not sure of the serial number. I can look into it, though it seems like many here think the case has been to refinished, anyway. Interestingly I went back on to their website to look at the serial number info, and it says Circa 1988 but then in a different section for production date it says 1997.

Let's say the Circa 1988 was a mistake. If this watch is 1997, does that change opinions on it based on potentially of not having replacement parts?

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41mets · 3 July 2019, 01:29 AM

The 1997 was a mistake. I called them. They did say over the phone that it was a replacement dial, so they do know that for sure.

The Explorer II may be a more feasible option for me, financially. I do like the tool look of it, and the red secondhand really pops.

Someone had mentioned HQ Milton has a reputable vintage dealer. Thoughts on this example?

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ack-dial-A2255

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sillo · 3 July 2019, 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 41mets

The 1997 was a mistake. I called them. They did say over the phone that it was a replacement dial, so they do know that for sure.

The Explorer II may be a more feasible option for me, financially. I do like the tool look of it, and the red secondhand really pops.

Someone had mentioned HQ Milton has a reputable vintage dealer. Thoughts on this example?

https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ack-dial-A2255

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

Looks decent, but you can definitely do better than that 16570. I'd check watch recon, there's plenty of nice box and papers examples available.

The HQ milton one has been refinished with incorrect chamfers.

41mets · 3 July 2019, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sillo38

Looks decent, but you can definitely do better than that 16570. I'd check watch recon, there's plenty of nice box and papers examples available.

The HQ milton one has been refinished with incorrect chamfers.

Thanks!!

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Apprentice.ph · 3 July 2019, 01:49 AM

Nice GMT

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JBZ · 3 July 2019, 02:04 AM

I agree with the above assessment on that 16570. Not a bad example, but you can do better. Not sure how you feel about hollow endlinks versus solid, but that example has hollow endlinks. There's nothing wrong with either, but some prefer the solid endlinks on a more modern piece.

Personally, the 16570 is one of my favorite Rolexes. Great looking watch that flies a bit under the radar. Same movement as a 16710 and can be had for far less (though 16570 prices are on the rise). There are a lot of them available for sale at any given time, both with and without B&P.

Also, you may already be aware, but the 16570 uses the 3185/3186 movement, just like the 16710. So you get a jump hour hand instead of a quickset date.

watchtung · 3 July 2019, 03:51 AM

16570 is rising fast. If you want one its time to get it.

2 July 2019, 01:05 AM	#1
41mets "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 115	GMT Master Pepsi vintage opinions So I'm intrigued at a vintage Pepsi GMT, and it seems that, based on price point, the late 80s, early 90s GMT master it's really the only thing that I could consider. This is new to me, and I'm doing research and reading things online and watching videos, but I'm interested in your take on things I should look for as both positives or negatives in these vintage pieces. I'm including some photos of one that's available. It looks like it's in great condition, but I have no idea if it's been refinished significantly, how to know if there been potential replacement parts, and I'm wondering what you see in these photos, of this 1988 vintage GMT master. Do you think box and papers are vital or is the market for these watches strong enough that getting something that a seller would guarantee is authentic without box and papers is an okay way to go? Seems that the GMT master of this vintage can be had in the mid $8,000 range where has the GMT two of the same vintage is 3 to $4,000 more. Thanks in advance! Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

2 July 2019, 05:24 AM	#6
henrylee "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Socal/LA Watch: 116610LN Ceramic Posts: 3,214	If that’s a 1988 gmt then the dial, bezel, and likely the hands have been replaced. __________________ ♛ Sub 116610LN 2011 ♛ GMT 126710BLNR 2021 ♛ GMT 126711CHNR 2020 ♛ Datejust 16233 X-series 1993 Ω Speedmaster Mitsukoshi 2019 č Cartier Tank w5200025 2021

2 July 2019, 05:31 AM	#8
southtexas 2024 ROLEX DATEJUST41 Pledge Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Great State of TX Posts: 5,684	That’s quite a case there...mind sharing where that is? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ Forty six & 2 are just ahead of me. Follow me on Instagram @ccrolex

2 July 2019, 04:52 PM	#21
RobW "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Real Name: Rob Location: Saudi Arabia Posts: 93	Well, if a watch of this kind in original and good condition start from $10,000-$12,000 and the watch your interested in with replacement dial and hands and polished case is going for $8,750 I think the price is not out of line. If your good with that as a solid daily watch that looks good but not commanding a collectable vintage price if you sold it, then go for it. Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk __________________ Rolex GMT Master II 116710LN, Oyster Perpetual 114300, Datejust 16233

2 July 2019, 02:51 AM	#2
41mets "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 115	Photos Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

2 July 2019, 04:29 AM	#3
1675-David "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Stockholm Posts: 6,014	that case is way too soft for me, I'd keep looking if I were you

2 July 2019, 04:37 AM	#4
HarryLime "TRF" Member Join Date: May 2018 Location: NY Posts: 676	Looks like a service dial and hands. Should be <25 for that year.

2 July 2019, 05:06 AM	#5
jfmiii "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Chicago Watch: 16750/16800/126710 Posts: 1,400	junk. definitely pass on that watch. curious what theyre asking for the 16570?

2 July 2019, 05:26 AM	#7
41mets "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 115	Thanks for the help, every The Explorer was about 5850, no box or papers, though. Seem to be in really good shape, hard to tell what has been refinished. Similar one with box and papers was $1,000 more. Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

2 July 2019, 05:38 AM	#9
1665fan "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2017 Location: East coast Posts: 6,591	From the looks probably most of those models are overpolished naked datejust and probably many service dials and hands....

2 July 2019, 05:45 AM	#10
swish77 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Real Name: Aaron Location: CT/NYC Watch: ing the time! Posts: 6,792	Looks like a late '90s 16700. What's the beginning of the serial number? That should tell the story more clearly. Regardless if you've gotten the year wrong or it's a watch with swapped-out parts, that case has been polished way too much for my liking. I'd keep looking. You can do better.

2 July 2019, 06:16 AM	#11
lx384 "TRF" Member Join Date: Nov 2011 Real Name: Lemuel Location: Asia Posts: 254	Shouldn't have a Swiss only dial if it is from 1988.

2 July 2019, 07:36 AM	#13
dhknola "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: New Orleans Posts: 1,153	Hey Mets - there is nothing 'wrong' per se as it will tell time. I was thinking about getting a 'service 1675' (something with a nice old case but largely later service parts such as dial/hands/bezel) and fair prices seem to be around 5-6k. While you get 'a deal' on a watch of that nature, plan on not getting much return as they are not sought after at all by collectors, really just have a bare market value for the sum of the parts.

2 July 2019, 01:08 PM	#18
chrisawa "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Beijing Posts: 22	Case looks overpolished, dial and hands are later replacements. For this price I'd pass

2 July 2019, 01:41 PM	#19
patrolmi "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: USA Posts: 170	If you want to find a Pepsi, or any example that is top notch for the collectors, without knowing exactly what you are doing-- you should definitely buy the seller, and i think these GMT's are starting in the 10-12 range... you can save a few thousand by getting a version like what you found, but you will sacrifice top line investment appreciation. If you find a deal, there's likely a reason ie. you get what you pay for! Patience.... there's a few really good threads on this forum that have a lot of info. You've come to the right place!

2 July 2019, 01:43 PM	#20
patrolmi "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: USA Posts: 170	Also there's date codes / stamps on the bracelets. For collectors- those matter too. There's charts that show what would be historically correct based on the serial number. Oddly enough, value doesn't always go by what is visually pleasing. It goes by historically correct. AND this is a TOUGH crowd here!!

2 July 2019, 11:24 PM	#22
JBZ "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 227	As long as you know what you're getting, it's priced accordingly, and you like it, I say go for it.

3 July 2019, 01:29 AM	#25
41mets "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: NJ Posts: 115	The 1997 was a mistake. I called them. They did say over the phone that it was a replacement dial, so they do know that for sure. The Explorer II may be a more feasible option for me, financially. I do like the tool look of it, and the red secondhand really pops. Someone had mentioned HQ Milton has a reputable vintage dealer. Thoughts on this example? https://www.hqmilton.com/timepieces/...ack-dial-A2255 Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

3 July 2019, 01:49 AM	#28
Apprentice.ph "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2018 Location: Pasig City Posts: 44	Nice GMT Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

3 July 2019, 02:04 AM	#29
JBZ "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Connecticut Posts: 227	I agree with the above assessment on that 16570. Not a bad example, but you can do better. Not sure how you feel about hollow endlinks versus solid, but that example has hollow endlinks. There's nothing wrong with either, but some prefer the solid endlinks on a more modern piece. Personally, the 16570 is one of my favorite Rolexes. Great looking watch that flies a bit under the radar. Same movement as a 16710 and can be had for far less (though 16570 prices are on the rise). There are a lot of them available for sale at any given time, both with and without B&P. Also, you may already be aware, but the 16570 uses the 3185/3186 movement, just like the 16710. So you get a jump hour hand instead of a quickset date.

3 July 2019, 03:51 AM	#30
watchtung "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2019 Location: San Francisco Watch: 16700, bb 58, kira Posts: 125	16570 is rising fast. If you want one its time to get it.

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