Bad officers make me appreciate the many good ones

[Pw92676]

I suspect this will get political etc even though it is not my intention. Just throwing props to the good, not shade to the bad.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/27/10213...violent-arrest

Every time I see crappy stories about police brutality like this in news, it makes my skin crawl. And it also makes me appreciate the good law enforcement officers we have in society. A few bad outliers always make for an exception but I genuinely want to express that we are lucky to have the vast majority as good people. I have actually learned gained this from the LEO here. Too often it’s seeing the crap like this or fatalities. But thanks to all the LEO who are good and professional. I would give you a tip but thankfully I don’t interact much with y’all and plus TRF would berate me like a fat cat. But I do donate to police charities occasionally :)

NB I know bad seeds exist in every profession so kudos to the good ones out there.

[GoingPlaces]

Not sure where this thread goes, but I fully support our LEO's. They put it on the line every day, their families as well. Good far outweigh the bad.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Pw92676

I suspect this will get political etc even though it is not my intention. Just throwing props to the good, not shade to the bad.

https://www.npr.org/2021/07/27/10213...violent-arrest

Every time I see crappy stories about police brutality like this in news, it makes my skin crawl. And it also makes me appreciate the good law enforcement officers we have in society. A few bad outliers always make for an exception but I genuinely want to express that we are lucky to have the vast majority as good people. I have actually learned gained this from the LEO here. Too often it’s seeing the crap like this or fatalities. But thanks to all the LEO who are good and professional. I would give you a tip but thankfully I don’t interact much with y’all and plus TRF would berate me like a fat cat. But I do donate to police charities occasionally :)

NB I know bad seeds exist in every profession so kudos to the good ones out there.

Often unfortunately, way too many times these are the stories that make the headlines and the news. For every story like this there are thousands of great stories of bravery, heroism, and humanity that go unrecognized, because that doesn't sell. As you said there are bad apples in every line of work. I believe you are an ophthalmologist? You know the old saying, "what do they call a doctor that finishes last in his class? Doctor."

[Pw92676]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Often unfortunately, way too many times these are the stories that make the headlines and the news. For every story like this there are thousands of great stories of bravery, heroism, and humanity that go unrecognized, because that doesn't sell. As you said there are bad apples in every line of work. I believe you are an ophthalmologist? You know the old saying, "what do they call a doctor that finishes last in his class? Doctor."

That’s very true. I love the stories like when LEO/Firemen/ups drivers/or just anyone do something good and simply. Cheesy stuff involving letting kids drive the fire truck are awesome. And sadly they don’t make the news as often as they should. Thats kind of my point, I wish more stuff like that would be spread rather than just bad stuff or tragic fatalities.

Trust me, there are some that graduate top middle and bottom that carry the title but I wouldn’t recommend :)

[CKizzy]

Difficult job and even harder life!

[CamSLC]

Society as a whole has a lot of empathetic kind hearted people, and a lot of sociopathic narcissistic, emotionally weak people. There are no careers that weed out the bad ones and attract the good. Police, Physicians, CEO's, day laborers. Careers don't make a personality.

My brother is the "Captain of professional standards" for a police department in a medium sized US city. Some of what he's told me really confirms that everyone is human, struggles, and make mistakes. Police work is an extra difficult ecosystem, and I have a lot of respect for those who do it. I'm glad this bad one is being held accountable.

[JasoninDenver]

LEO is a job I could never image having due to the piss poor attitudes of the jerks and drunks that they have to deal with on a daily basis. My respect for those that do the job is huge.

[daveathall]

I think that one of the many articles of police officers showing exceptional bravery, dedication and compassion would have proved the point much better.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by JasoninDenver

LEO is a job I could never image having due to the piss poor attitudes of the jerks and drunks that they have to deal with on a daily basis. My respect for those that do the job is huge.

This, and well said. I do not exactly “like” LEOs, I have had some bad experiences with… less then respectful Officers, but I understand that is the minority and we won’t go there, but I respect the hell out of these guys (and gals). Think about it, a suspect is shooting at you, trying to kill you. He surrenders, you put him in handcuffs and then makes sure he doesn’t hit his head on the roof of the patrol car being placed in the back seat; I DEFINITELY do not have that kind of control. If someone was shooting at me, trying to kill me, and I got him in handcuffs, I would be banging his head on the road! They have incredible discipline and patience, better then I could ever have!

[pricejake]

In life its always like that, but we shouldn't forget about the good ones out there so they can do their jobs much better.

[TNT009]

Well, no good cop likes the bad ones... And youre seeing agencies discipling cops that see bad behavior and DONT report it!

Glad I got 4.5 years left and the rookies can have it!

[dba]

I had an amazing training officer in my first training phase 32 years ago. He gave me three nuggets that sustained me throughout my career, but the one I remember; the most important it turns out was this:

This is not a personal job. Everything that is said to you, everything that is done to you by the citizenry is not personal. They are attacking an idea, an organization, not a person. You represent their being made to behave, the possible loss of their liberty or even their life. Conversely, everything you say to them, IS personal. Act like a professional, speak like a professional and don’t take what’s done to you personally. So, when I spent a long night behind a tree, getting shot at, I didn’t take it personally. I stayed alive, did my job and went home. To this day, I don’t remember that person’s name or what he looks like.

We’re all human. We have our “points of no return”. For me, it was just too easy to step between a bad guy and another cop that was reaching that point. I surrounded myself with other cops who would look after me if I was approaching that point. Because of that advice I was given, that was a rare occasion. We’re put out there to maintain control, not lose it. The use of force is never pretty, but excessive force is despicable, criminal behavior.

Because I negotiated contracts between the police union and the city, everything was about money. If I didn’t stop bad behavior from a fellow cop, when I saw it happening, it would see the light of day, and only worse things can happen afterwards. And then when I’m sitting across the table from the city manager asking for more money, he says that he’s about $3 million short because a lawsuit.

I’m just glad I’m retired and not out there anymore. Stay safe.

[Gharddog03]

Originally Posted by TNT009

Well, no good cop likes the bad ones... And youre seeing agencies discipling cops that see bad behavior and DONT report it!

Glad I got 4.5 years left and the rookies can have it!

[austinp]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I think that one of the many articles of police officers showing exceptional bravery, dedication and compassion would have proved the point much better.

Agree with this. Makes me question motive.


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[BNA/LION]

Originally Posted by TNT009

Well, no good cop likes the bad ones... And youre seeing agencies disciplining cops that see bad behavior and DONT report it!

Glad I got 4.5 years left and the rookies can have it!

Stay Safe and Do Good Work! All the best to you and your family as your finish out your career! Thank You for your service!

[TK-710]

You don’t see headlines that read plane lands safely at the airport after a smooth flight. There’s well over half a million officers in the US (estimates as high as 800,000) having multiple encounters with numerous people everyday for an uncountable number of reasons from flat tires, medical emergencies, assaults, home intrusions and murder. They have to be able to handle each one independently of the next regardless of the personal impact it may have. The vast majority are handled far better than the fiercest critic could ever hope to handle it. As in every profession failures due happen. But again based on the number of encounters not often. Yet even though bad encounters are a statistical anomaly they do make great new stories especially when there’s an agenda.



Based on previous posts combined with the liked article I’m not buying the pro police stance.

[Atone]

God bless all the good ones. May you all have the strength, wisdom, comfort and protection to carry your good work forward and hold your bad colleagues to task. I could never do that job.

[MrGoat]

I look at it this way.

Let’s say 10% of human beings are jerks (the number could be higher or lower). But let’s use 10% as a round easy number. So one out of every 10 people is a jerk. There is no telling what profession these 10% will go into. There is no rhyme or reason to these 10%, they can be any profession, gender, religion, race or sexuality. These 10% make the headlines. The headlines persuade another percentage of the population into believing most of whatever group are like the 10%. Then the idea spreads more and creates division. This only divides humans more. This division creates unfounded fears that get handed down through generations because of a small percentage of bad apples, thus creating more bad apples that believe someone is inherently bad because of their profession, gender, race, religion or sexuality. Until people decide to treat others with respect until they’re given a legitimate reason not to, this will never change.

I absolutely support our LEO community. There are so many good deeds done by so many every day that never gets publicized. Hold the bad apples accountable and treat everyone with respect. Let’s be the change we want to see in this world and see where it gets us because clearly the divided thing isn’t working.


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[Atone]

there are so many more layers to this stuff than just character and disposition. trauma, physiological activation, one's own limit or threshold for nervous system activation and all sorts of other things will also contribute to some of the poor behavioral responses. the conversation is not just that "officer brown is a bad guy and therefore did bad things as a cop".

[Fleetlord]

Good officers don't like bad officers at all. It makes everything harder.

I have a lifelong friend who was a police officer @ 18 and retired after 20yrs because he saw this coming.

Hiring standards had really dropped in area departments because they were desperate for bodies...so they would take officers on the force who they wouldn't have in years prior.

The jobs simply don't pay enough and there are too many options out there for employment, so if somebody steps up to do it, the agencies overlooked some stuff...

Well, the "bad" officers started to show their issues and that gets all the media coverage because it gets ratings, which unfortunately makes EVERY cop look bad, which then makes their job much more difficult and dangerous.

[77T]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I think that one of the many articles of police officers showing exceptional bravery, dedication and compassion would have proved the point much better.

Definitely agree - I don’t see the sense of using that article here to laud the great majority of LEOs.

So I’ll give a positive one that happened 8 days ago with my next door neighbor.

I’m out for a walk, I see his herby curby standing halfway down his driveway the night before our pickup day. Didn’t see him.

I walk up the lane to the neighborhood entrance less than half a mile away. Turn around to head homeward and hear sirens - one, then two cars headed down our lane.

I look ahead and see the lead LEO leap from his car in full sprint and drop to the ground and start chest compressions. Then Paramedics arrived and took over.

Yep, my neighbor. He’d apparently come back to the herby curby, pushed it a few feet, dropped DRT and his wife called 911.

All in the space of 5 minutes…got his heart going again but alas didn’t make it through the night in ICU. Very sad but not for want of trying.

YOU LEOs,
Yes, YOU! -
You rock and you save lives each and every day 365x24 (some years 366x24).

Thanks for the protect & serve role you play in our lives.


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[vh2k]

Just too many bad apples who lack training, temperament, and understanding of the laws they are paid to enforce. The good ones are leaving in droves.

[Spectre38]

I have nothing but respect for our law enforcement officers.

Imagine having a job where 99% of the calls that you have to respond to, are negative. Domestic abuse, car accidents, theft, murder.... every possible dark shadow of the human experience.

We, as non law enforcement, have the luxury of having bad days. Even when not exposed to all of the negativity, we have bad days. We have all snapped at family, friends or co-workers. We have all come to work bringing the weight of our lives and experiences with us, whether intentional or not. Our brave officers don't usually have that luxury.

Most, not all, but most of the negative interactions are not instigated by the officers. They are responding to a threat, a reaction or situation that may have escalated causing them to make a split second decision that, in some cases may not be the correct one.

I can't imagine trying to go to work and having to try and do my job, while being threatened, provoked, insulted, lied to and blamed for the actions of others. They ( the LEOs ) are generally far better people than I. As Paul ( TheVTCGuy ) stated, I would want to hurt someone.

God Bless the men and women who go out each day, try to maintain a civilized society, and return home safely to their families at the end of the day. This sentiment goes out to our Military, Fire, Emergency Services and every other group who struggle to make our world a livable place.

[Pw92676]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I think that one of the many articles of police officers showing exceptional bravery, dedication and compassion would have proved the point much better.

Maybe you get to see this in the news more often than I do. More often than not I see either bad stories or officer down somewhere.

As to motive, never thought it would be questioned. Sometimes people don’t think about things daily and don’t appreciate them, but when they get a bad experience it either makes them jaded or makes them appreciate the good ones. I took the latter road. In my mind this makes perfect sense and sorry if any of you guys thought otherwise.

[airchitect]

OP, the topic of LEO’s and military are always touchy subjects.

Do we need them? Of course.

Are most awesome people? Yep.

But are they all hero’s just for wearing a uniform? Fraid not.

Do the bad apples get all the press? Sure do.

Why? Simple. If you are allowed to walk around in society with the power to command people to do as you say with a possible consequence for not doing so being death, you must be held to a far higher standard than everyone else. There are awesome cops out there but when the bad ones act out, the results can be catastrophic.

IMHO the focus with all of this needs to be less on individual officers and more on the cultural issues within the institutions that lead to the bad apples doing what they do. I’ve seen some really crummy cops and great ones but there’s so much more to it than that. Dare I say, most people on this forum have most likely never experienced anything resembling police action against them other than a possible ticket so your post will most likely elicit only “I love LEOs” comments. But there are a whole lot of people out there who, for one reason or another, have a negative reaction to those in uniform. It’s truly an issue I’d love to see fixed. I’ve most always had fine experiences with LEO’s and recognize they are people like everyone else…. That said what’s on their waist and the power granted to them elevates the standards by which they are measured. Dunno how it gets fixed, but I do know it isn’t disbanding police departments nor is it another useless war on drugs or monetizing police actions (ie make a bust, seize property, sell property, keep cash). It’s a damn complex situation……


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[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

… You know the old saying, "what do they call a doctor that finishes last in his class? Doctor."

I need to remember this

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by Pw92676

Maybe you get to see this in the news more often than I do. More often than not I see either bad stories or officer down somewhere.

As to motive, never thought it would be questioned. Sometimes people don’t think about things daily and don’t appreciate them, but when they get a bad experience it either makes them jaded or makes them appreciate the good ones. I took the latter road. In my mind this makes perfect sense and sorry if any of you guys thought otherwise.

I come from the UK but the recent good events I would have used to thank LEO are the one where a police officer ran into a burning building to save a disabled resident in Tennessee in July, or the Police officer Conklin running into a burning home containing women and children on a first floor in Jamestown later in the same month. These are just 2 from many, many every day occupancies.

My point wasn't your motives, others pointed that out, not me. My point was that, to show an appreciation of the police, it is better to show something good and much more prevalent, rather than something bad and shining the spotlight on a tiny number of police officers that are not representative of the vast and overwhelming majority of these fine people.

A quick Google search was all it took, I do remember the ones I referenced because they were on UK National news. (And rightly so. Such bravery).

[THC]

God Bless all Badges

[Rock]

In ANY occupation there are people who are only interested in how they can benefit from the job. They may be utterly unsuited to the job and quite incompetent but they are hard to get rid of because of poor recruitement practices and workplace rules designed to protect good employees that unfortunately also protect the bad ones.
I had an accountant that ended up in gaol, there is a doctor in my street that ended up the same way. There are bad dudes in every occupation. That's life.

[Blansky]

Nice balanced responses here.

EVERYONE know we need LEOs. Part of the defunding controversy is about throwing money at the police, for things that the police are, and were never trained for. Tons of stories about terrible outcomes from police responding to a mental health crisis and killing the person. So the question is, should police be the agency responding to this situation?

Another issue is the militarization of the police. Possibly the law of unintended consequences here. All this military equipment left over from wars, what to do with it. I know, give it to the cops. The first backlash I remember was after the Boston Marathon bombing and people saw the police riding around looking like an occupying army with armored personnel carriers et all. It looked like a bunch of weekend warriors playing soldier. At one point firing hundreds of rounds of ammunition into a boat. Bad optics.

I think there are two problems, one of which is starting to be addressed. But when the US was formed they were smart enough to make sure that there was civilian control over the military. Macho type A's running amok is a recipe for disaster in a country.

Unfortunately as police forces morphed and evolved those same civilian controls were not necessarily in place. The thinking was, just keep law and order, and we'll leave you alone. Basically the rich making sure that their property was protected. In my opinion more civilian control is necessary. I don't think ANY organization with this kind of power should be as autonomous as the police are, and even if there are command controls, the unions enable some officers to run amok.

The second thing is, the police are a closed society, a brotherhood, they protect their own, for obvious reasons, they promote their own, and too often the Type A personality will soon rule the roost which unfortunately are not necessarily the smartest/wisest ones. And in a lot of cases off duty police officers only interact with other officers. They don't even live in the cities they work in. The "us vs them" mentality. A difficult culture to change. The abuses in various cities through the years is legendary. LA, Philly, NY, Boston etc and the "old ways" of policing.

The other thing is the variety of police responsibilities. Obviously the police need a SWAT group, which may be a bit "cowboy" for normal police work but is still a necessary unit. But should these same guys be policing on the streets? Are these Type A, adrenaline junkies who you want doing traffic stops. And are ex-military the best people to have doing police work? And are all the various online groups and seminars where military and police officers intermingle and trade tactics a good mix.

I had a lot of cop friends when I was in Sonoma County, from retired SF officers, to police chiefs in small towns, to a bunch of young guys going in because it was one of the only career choices they could really find. I asked one of them why so many military guys go in, and he said they are recruited because one, they've been trained to follow orders, and two, they're already familiar with firearms. I though, hmmmm, is that really the best criteria for finding police officers??

Anyways the culture is slowly changing hopefully, bad officers are not being able to rotate out of one place to another as easily now, there are far greater repercussions for bad shootings, and perhaps the bad ones will be rooted out better.

It's a tough job, but all the ones I know are all great people and got in for the right reasons. And sadly, the police officer that lived across the street from me, always kept it quiet what he did for a living when off duty in public, because of the way the police are perceived by some of the public now. That can't be good for morale.

But the irony of that situation is that minorities have always complained about being "profiled" by police, meaning because for example, some black people committed a crime that ALL black people commit crimes, and now because some cop shot some unarmed persons somewhere in the US, that ALL cops are being "profiled" as bad.