Considering a 3970....

[pb2au]

I am a lurker on this thread. I generally wear Rolex but I have been waiting for the right opportunity to become a member of the Patek club. I have the opportunity to pick up a 3970p from an estate. It’s a safe queen from 1998 and I am meeting the vendor tomorrow to inspect the watch.

I would really appreciate any advice as to what to look for with this watch. I have done some research but know that this forum has some very knowledgeable people.

A couple of specific questions:

Is there any question that I should send to Patek for a service?

Will Patek register the watch in my name? Anyone know this process?

Any thoughts are welcome

[Racerdj]

It looks like you found a fantastic collectable Patek. I would only send in for service if it needed it. You can register the watch online and it will get you into their data base. You will probably get the magazine a couple times a year maybe 3. I wish you success and hope it works out for you. It will be a keeper!

[pb2au]

Thanks very much. For the advice

[jon_jon]

There were several different versions of 3970 produced over the years, with variations in the hands, hour markers and the case back. Check to see if the watch comes with the original Certificate of Origin, which would be important if it was indeed a safe queen. If not, you can probably order an Extract from the Archives directly from Geneva.

Are you planning to wear this watch or keep it as a safe queen yourself? I always felt the watch proportions (case thickness vs case diameter) were a bit off and although it would make a nice safe queen, the watch is not the most wearable. It may feel a bit awkward on the wrist when you try it on. But definitely try it on your wrist before making a purchase decision.

[pb2au]

Thanks. I am planning on wearing it. Not daily but in rotation.

I have a smaller wrist so it may work. Putting it on tomorrow.

[Enigma54]

This is a good reference piece on the 3970 published fairly recently: https://www.hodinkee.com/articles/pa...e-3970-history

It's an enjoyable read and goes through all the different series of the 3970. It may be helpful in identifying what you'll be looking at tomorrow. Good luck!

[pb2au]

Very helpful article. Such a gorgeous watch!

[BLACKHORSE 6]

Post pics when you can!

[Sonzy]

Waiting for some pics :)

[pb2au]

I’ll see what I can do for the pics.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by pb2au

Is there any question that I should send to Patek for a service?

No question at all, it NEEDS to be serviced as surely the oils have dried / migrated after 20 years in a safe with non-use.

Will Patek register the watch in my name? Anyone know this process?

When you send it in for service simply ask them to register it in your name.

Had a 3970er for many years. It might be quite good for your small wrist as it wears small (35mm-ish) and is very thick for a mechanical timepiece. Wearing comfort is quite good in wrist weight/balance. You may want to photocopy the owner's manual page that shows how to make date/day/lunar changes via the supplied pusher. Over the years i had the whole ritual memorized at one point. Reliability as a formal wear only watch was good, though service times may be 6+ months nowadays and it NEEDS to be serviced. You may want to avoid case polish, especially around the hallmarks as dull hallmarks will lower the value of the timepiece. Patek buyers are very, very particular. If you don't like the deal, walk away as there are many, many 3970 watches for sale. Asking price on Chrono24 and actual selling price are very different.

As a guide, third gen 3970er in mint / orig box / papers / book, perfect condition in **freshly service still-sealed condition** sells for around $80k on the street (many ask for $90k, they're dreaming in the real world imho). Am sure you're aware of current market pricing for platinum, the need for original certificate, original box, pusher, booklet, extra back, etc and not Extract From Archive.

[AK797]

What kind of price are you looking at?

[pb2au]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

No question at all, it NEEDS to be serviced as surely the oils have dried / migrated after 20 years in a safe with non-use.




When you send it in for service simply ask them to register it in your name.

Had a 3970er for many years. It might be quite good for your small wrist as it wears small (35mm-ish) and is very thick for a mechanical timepiece. Wearing comfort is quite good in wrist weight/balance. You may want to photocopy the owner's manual page that shows how to make date/day/lunar changes via the supplied pusher. Over the years i had the whole ritual memorized at one point. Reliability as a formal wear only watch was good, though service times may be 6+ months nowadays and it NEEDS to be serviced. You may want to avoid case polish, especially around the hallmarks as dull hallmarks will lower the value of the timepiece. Patek buyers are very, very particular. If you don't like the deal, walk away as there are many, many 3970 watches for sale. Asking price on Chrono24 and actual selling price are very different.

As a guide, third gen 3970er in mint / orig box / papers / book, perfect condition in **freshly service still-sealed condition** sells for around $80k on the street (many ask for $90k, they're dreaming in the real world imho). Am sure you're aware of current market pricing for platinum, the need for original certificate, original box, pusher, booklet, extra back, etc and not Extract From Archive.

Very helpful post. I am looking at third series p black dial and diamond markers. I think there would be a premium for the metal. Not sure how rare the black dial is. I have seen a few of them floating around.

It has not been serviced so I was also concerned about the drying of the lubricants. I understand that this is a complicated piece but six months for service...:

Looks like it is coming with all the necessary accesories as it was not worn but I will visually inspect.

Still need to negotiate price as I don’t know if probate has been finalized. I just happen to know the seller who knows I like watches. Any thoughts would be helpful.

[pb2au]

Originally Posted by AK797

What kind of price are you looking at?

Please see my response above. To be negotiated.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by pb2au

Very helpful post. I am looking at third series p black dial and diamond markers. I think there would be a premium for the metal. Not sure how rare the black dial is. I have seen a few of them floating around.

Yes, and i recall one guy asking $130k-ish for the black/diamond for.... forever. Not sure if that one ever sold after many, many, many months.

It has not been serviced so I was also concerned about the drying of the lubricants. I understand that this is a complicated piece but six months for service...:

20 years for any mechanical watch, even the most modern Rolex with their latest lubricants, would need service after 20 years. Normal stuff really. As for the 6+ month service time..... one of reasons i migrated to Rolex. Be sure you want the 3970 as they are a bit of odd ducks in the Patek world nowadays, not easy to sell (unless low low price because of major value risk to reseller).

Still need to negotiate price as I don’t know if probate has been finalized. I just happen to know the seller who knows I like watches. Any thoughts would be helpful.

$100k max. Heck, take pics of it, call dealers asking what they'd offer you for it. She truly does need service if you plan to use her, and TRUE resale is what it is... as is financial risk though of course for some finances do not matter as they want what they want. Again, it really is a bit of an odd duck in the Patek world nowadays.

On a personal note, she wore well for formal use and is a bit small, VERY thick for it's size, yet workable on a small wrist. Agree with others as you really need to see it on your wrist before deciding, and as you said the black dial with diamonds are not 'too rare' that would then make it something very rare/special within the Patek world.

JMHO YMMV


6.5" wrist shot

[pb2au]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Yes, and i recall one guy asking $130k-ish for the black/diamond for.... forever. Not sure if that one ever sold after many, many, many months.




20 years for any mechanical watch, even the most modern Rolex with their latest lubricants, would need service after 20 years. Normal stuff really. As for the 6+ month service time..... one of reasons i migrated to Rolex. Be sure you want the 3970 as they are a bit of odd ducks in the Patek world nowadays, not easy to sell (unless low low price because of major value risk to reseller).




$100k max. Heck, take pics of it, call dealers asking what they'd offer you for it. She truly does need service if you plan to use her, and TRUE resale is what it is... as is financial risk though of course for some finances do not matter as they want what they want. Again, it really is a bit of an odd duck in the Patek world nowadays.

On a personal note, she wore well for formal use and is a bit small, VERY thick for it's size, yet workable on a small wrist. Agree with others as you really need to see it on your wrist before deciding, and as you said the black dial with diamonds are not 'too rare' that would then make it something very rare/special within the Patek world.

JMHO YMMV


6.5" wrist shot

Yours looks great.

I have wanted a Patek for twenty five years. Turned fifty and I think it is time.
Was looking at 5146 g, 5200, 5712(impossible except in grey market) or 5167. I intend to wear the watch in rotation. This opportunity then came up. Big step up but it checks so many boxes.

I know it is one of the least loved grand complications but I suspect that it will at least maintain value and hopefully keep pace with inflation.

Very helpful and practical tips re pricing.

I just hope this catch is worth the hunt if I do pull this off.

[enjoythemusic]

Your timing is good-ish for the 3970. **You** should set the price and let buyers come to you. Patience is rewarded. BTW, think the third gen 3970 plat with diamond dial was around $45k brand new. The 3970 actually had a slow start in the marketplace. Due to the thickness, it faced an uphill battle so-to-speak. Dealers were heavily discounting them at the time due to lack of demand. The 3940 had some value issues early on as well, though the case was then modern thin and it had great curves/lines. Very classic and stylish that 3940! Again the thickness of the 3970 was part of it's 'undoing'' imho.

Today, the 5970 seems to be the 'hotter' piece, and that reference had high demand after launch with $130k or so for a rg model at grays back in the day.

Apologies for long post, lots of fun history there as lived it. Those were some truly fun times for Patek back then. Kinda miss 'em actually, yet the whole scheme for watches, collectors, enthusiasts (ME ME ME)... and Patek has changed.

Take your time, patience is rewarded and seems the 3970 you have access to is good *provided* he is also realistic about resale price and the obvious need for servicing that takes 6+ months (plan on 8). Personally, even if you do not plan to wear it PLEASE get her serviced. Parts need lube, who knows what the condition of the rubber seals are in (prob dried out), etc. Bring a loop and CAREFULLY check the dial for ANY defects as new dials take massive time for Patek to produce for older models.

Hope some of my jibberish helps you. In the end what REALLY matters is that YOU...

Enjoy your time

[codecow]

I think if you can get it that would be great. Starting out with a perpetual chrono as your first Patek is awesome; might cure you of the need to have a bunch of them.

[Calatrava r]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Your timing is good-ish for the 3970. **You** should set the price and let buyers come to you. Patience is rewarded. BTW, think the third gen 3970 plat with diamond dial was around $45k brand new. The 3970 actually had a slow start in the marketplace. Due to the thickness, it faced an uphill battle so-to-speak. Dealers were heavily discounting them at the time due to lack of demand. The 3940 had some value issues early on as well, though the case was then modern thin and it had great curves/lines. Very classic and stylish that 3940! Again the thickness of the 3970 was part of it's 'undoing'' imho.

Today, the 5970 seems to be the 'hotter' piece, and that reference had high demand after launch with $130k or so for a rg model at grays back in the day.

Apologies for long post, lots of fun history there as lived it. Those were some truly fun times for Patek back then. Kinda miss 'em actually, yet the whole scheme for watches, collectors, enthusiasts (ME ME ME)... and Patek has changed.

Take your time, patience is rewarded and seems the 3970 you have access to is good *provided* he is also realistic about resale price and the obvious need for servicing that takes 6+ months (plan on 8). Personally, even if you do not plan to wear it PLEASE get her serviced. Parts need lube, who knows what the condition of the rubber seals are in (prob dried out), etc. Bring a loop and CAREFULLY check the dial for ANY defects as new dials take massive time for Patek to produce for older models.

Hope some of my jibberish helps you. In the end what REALLY matters is that YOU...

Enjoy your time

I seem to recall when the 3970 was released at 60K, the entire lot was presold and gone. The following year the price was raised 15K. I was not in the market for one years ago but it was unheard of to discount Pateks (or Porsches) in the 70s,80s and 90s. The discounting started in the early 2000s as production increased and more grey market folks appeared.

[Calatrava r]

I have the Patek 1992 price list for their line and the prices for the 3970 are yellow 71500, white 73000, rose 84000 and Plat. 110,000.

[pb2au]

Thanks for all the advice guys.

So I saw the watch today. It does look overall like a safe queen. There are small scratches on one side. You would have to look very carefully to catch them but they are there. Unfortunately I think that the scratches are sufficiently deep that it would affect the curve of the case if polished. No outerbox or manual but that is being looked for.

I took a couple of wrist shots but unfortunately am not sure how to post. I’ll see if I can figure out how to do that with my iPhoto’s.

The watch works very well on my wrist. I generally wear a Seadweller on a so don’t mind a taller watch.

Lots to consider....

[subtona]

a fair amount of variety between the different releases, i would not buy it because it is the only one or cheapest one available... i would buy it because you gotta have it.

[codecow]

Originally Posted by pb2au

There are small scratches on one side. You would have to look very carefully to catch them but they are there. Unfortunately I think that the scratches are sufficiently deep that it would affect the curve of the case if polished. No outerbox or manual but that is being looked for.

Personally that wouldn't be a detraction for me especially if I can get a good price on it. When you send it in for service you can probably get them to laser weld it if they're really deep; I'd expect Patek can restore it to new condition however it might be quite expensive as will the service as it's a GC.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Calatrava r

The discounting started in the early 2000s as production increased and more grey market folks appeared.

Ahhhh thanks! i recall the 3970 went down and the discounts during Asian crisis. But then they went up to about 110k for the rg about 10(?) years ago. Then it went down. 3970 is a bit of a up and down odd duck, so waiting it out for the right example priced right is key. Not rare or unique.

Anyone sell a 3970 recently, what condition, etc and what did you get for it when reselling? Maybe that's a better enquiry to see if they're selling or, my fear, quite stagnant market. 2.5 years ago a few dealers did not even want to bother with the fresh service sealed 3970er. Good thing it's a buyers market for the 3970.

[LitzDoc]

My friend bought a 3970J second series 6 months ago. No Manual but everything else including COO and full service by PP Geneva. $74,000
Beautiful watch seen in the left. My 5270R is in the right.
If you pass on the 3970P I would be interested at the right price. PM me of you like. These are the best watches on the planet IMO.



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[pb2au]

Originally Posted by LitzDoc

My friend bought a 3970J second series 6 months ago. No Manual but everything else including COO and full service by PP Geneva. $74,000
Beautiful watch seen in the left. My 5270R is in the right.
If you pass on the 3970P I would be interested at the right price. PM me of you like. These are the best watches on the planet IMO.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I agree that these are fantastic watches. I am passing for something else and have sent you a pm.

[pb2au]

So here is a pic of the 3970 that I was looking at. I wanted to love it but the diamonds were just not me


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[pb2au]

This is what is coming instead. More pics on arrival.


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