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17 May 2016, 11:05 PM | #121 |
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It's not a charity that's for sure but as an independant business it probably has less pressure to grow versus a public company like Richmont that has public shareholders to look after. I think Stern himself said that they would grow but in a controlled manner...however I think we are niave if we think they will stay at 55000 units p.a. for ever!! The magic %age is 20% of all production is steel watches...10 000 quartz etc etc. The raison detre for the new facility is to primarily house all manufacture in one place where currently its spread out a bit...but there is always ancillary benefits for efficiencies....when I asked about the market last week (and you =can believe this is them selling their own book or not) they advised they are still selling all production with wait lists for many models. Yes China has dropped of but USA and UK has shown growth of over 15% in each market!! They did mention the rumour that Vacheron was selling 80% of production and was incentivising their AD's to move more stock - who knows if true or not!
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17 May 2016, 11:16 PM | #122 | |
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patek-5370-movement-close-up.jpg |
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17 May 2016, 11:33 PM | #123 | |
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17 May 2016, 11:54 PM | #124 |
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I think Lange make the second best watches in the world - if they come second it's because their movements and dials can be a little "overstyled."
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18 May 2016, 12:09 AM | #125 |
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On a separate note I do NOT believe that guff that Mr Stern is espousing about all models being wait listed. I have a real concern about overproduction of ALL PP models and have got a feeling that Patek is currently heading the way of AP - a "one-watch" company - namely the Nautilus. (anyone own an AP which isn't an RO or an ROO?)
From experience, there is NO (non-Nautilus) PP which is "hard to get" other than the 5131. The grand complications which were once by application can be had by anyone. Their once-iconic PCC now sits in shop windows for months. And their are heavy discounts to be enjoyed by customers prepared to discreetly ask an AD to do deals. Yes, ALS doesn't compare but Thierry is making a mess of things. And this comes from someone is rather heavily invested in the brand himself. Beyond around $30,000 I wouldn't consider a watch from any other brand no matter what it's respective merits... PP beats ALS but they are not what they were. CUT PRODUCTION. MAKE THEM EXCLUSIVE AGAIN AND PROTECT YOUR COLLECTORS. ARE YOU LISTENING MR STERN? |
18 May 2016, 12:30 AM | #126 | |
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Reading this, it certainly doesn't seems to be a good time to collect Pateks. I was eyeing the new 5170R. Lange certainly made beautiful watches and their movement finishing is top notch. I like Lange watches but not like them enough yet to buy them. The closest I got was the Datograph but the lack of roman indices bothers me. The uniformity of case design across all product lines of Lange also kind of bugs me. So I guess I better stick to APs. |
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18 May 2016, 12:30 AM | #127 |
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18 May 2016, 12:45 AM | #128 | ||
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About PP become a "1 model brand" like AP with the RO/ROO line I really don't think so, sure that line has a big part in their line up, but no way near compared to AP, we will see in the future but I think we should see them continue to make the same percentage levels of Nautilus vs comp and grand comp, but everything is possible after all, only the future will tell... Sure Patek is going more in the mainstream than before, for that I don't know if more people can afford them in Western countries than before, or if because of sky rocketing prices in auctions some people who never would have thought to invest high prices in watches have started to do so some time ago, it is clear that apart from Nautilus and very few other models the idea that a Patek holds or increases it's value has become a certain joke, not sure if T Stern is to blame as in the models and novelties proposed they are still IMO the best brand out there, now for exclusivity, QC, service time, finishing and other things sure they might not be to the level of what they were before, still a great brand from what I can see |
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18 May 2016, 12:49 AM | #129 | |
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18 May 2016, 12:57 AM | #130 |
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Well this was the first time in long while where he said at Basel that production would be kept the same. So maybe that's a step in the right direction but I wouldn't bet on a cut anytime soon!
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18 May 2016, 01:23 AM | #131 |
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Well since the chinese and russians are buying much less they are still over producing, which means that more and more people buying non Nautilus models will see the second hand value of their watch fall and this is not good for the brand or for collectors at all, as we all know here prices are determined from the offer/demand ratio, will we see one day Patek watches loosing on the second hand market huge sums like most other brands? Some models have already started to go that way...
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18 May 2016, 01:51 AM | #132 | |
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18 May 2016, 02:01 AM | #133 |
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In summation this is a poll and the results speak for themselves irrespective of comments. 60% PP and ALS 40%
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18 May 2016, 02:16 AM | #134 |
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Putting a pic of a "high end" ALS and a "Starter" Patek is not a fair comparison. With regards to AP- As I mentioned, I own several. But every watch they make is the same- its either an offshore or a royal oak- stick a celebrity name on the watch and voila- This is coming from someone who only had APs in their collection. I have not enjoyed the quality of my APs. My bumble bee has had to be serviced 3 times. The Safari twice. The Grand Prix was great but it wore too large and I sold it. Dont get me wrong- AP is still great but in my eyes it has dropped considerably.
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18 May 2016, 02:17 AM | #135 |
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Lange for me, but I love Patek too
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18 May 2016, 02:20 AM | #136 |
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18 May 2016, 02:34 AM | #137 | |
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I think AP, PP and ALS are all great brands personally. Different strokes for different folks...enjoy |
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18 May 2016, 02:35 AM | #138 | |
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But Patek is Patek. That might be subjective but isn't most of this subjective? |
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18 May 2016, 03:17 AM | #139 |
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As we are comparing the movements in caseback, does anyone have closeup shots of the moonphase of Lange.
The metallic shiny full moon is just so attractive. Patek moonphase seems quite plain and aged in this aspect. |
18 May 2016, 03:21 AM | #140 |
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I still want a Datograph perpetual calendar
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18 May 2016, 03:28 AM | #141 |
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ALS is a brand best bought for eternity, at a steep discount, or used. Unfortunately, resale prices are calamitous.
Patek seems to be faring much better in this regard. Otherwise, I hold them in equal regard, and own pieces from both brands. Patek certainly seems more understated, I have never once gotten a compliment on either Calatrava or Nautilus, but got them quite often sporting a Lange (I should add that I prefer the "no compliments" aspect) |
18 May 2016, 03:31 AM | #142 | |
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About AP I love the way my ce diver is made, I love the movement but would not look at it with a loupe or any other sort of thing, but I was quite shocked that mine cracked or chipped, but most likely cracked, without any shock, didn't think that was possible, I will write to them in 1 month to see if they already analyzed the case and found out what happened, this is the first time in my life I encounter any problem with any of my watches... |
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19 May 2016, 04:49 AM | #143 |
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19 May 2016, 06:36 AM | #144 | |
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I wonder what would be the results if they had a certified sport line of models as Patek does, plus they have much less types of watches than PP, even if we just look at the Pateks without these 2 lines, so I think it is quite amazing, I would just say that if I wanted to buy a complicated watch in PM for 80k I would get a datograph perpetual, of course second hand not new and certainly not at retail, other than that, under or above that price, I would still get a Patek |
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19 May 2016, 03:03 PM | #145 |
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1 June 2016, 05:04 AM | #146 |
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1 June 2016, 05:11 AM | #147 | |
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1 June 2016, 05:25 AM | #148 |
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Mark, you seem to have it out for bashing Patek Phillippe or something negative to say about everything it seems like. Do you own any pieces from them out of curiosity? If you do, did you pay MSRP? Feel free to load up on Lange and let me know the return you get when you/if you decide to sell it.
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1 June 2016, 05:27 AM | #149 |
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1 June 2016, 05:27 AM | #150 |
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