The Official Formula One Thread!

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by texasmade

Ferrari management is a joke. I don’t know why they wanted to swap on lap 6 or whatever it was when Lewis was so close. They finally got smart and decided to just screw Vettel on the pit stops to get the swap done.

I do agree that Ferrari’s race strategy looks like it’s being devised on the fly by Mr Bean and has been that way for a few seasons. I also agree that trying to do the swap at a time when Vettel would’ve ended up under huge pressure from Hamilton was utterly boneheaded.

I do though think that in very small part what happened today was understandable: Leclerc has the makings of a multiple future World Champion and it simultaneously looks like Ferrari bet on the wrong horse when they signed Vettel after Alonso left. Factor in what happened to Leclerc in Singapore and todays calls smacked of Ferrari trying to keep the guy who is the future sweet, at the expense of yesterday’s man.

[Latrodectus]

I don’t think there was a need for a swap to begin with.

[77T]

The strategy at Ferrari was bungled by VET’s move in T1 @ G/F. LEC, though, spent more time whining than keeping close to take the lead when Race Control enabled DRS. (If he was able)

Sounded like a petulant child, “Daddy, he took my pacifier...”

But the choice to swap in a box undercut went reasonable well.

Then VET’s engine failure bungled everything for LEC and the chance for a win.

The resulting VSC complicated matters, but then the upgrade to full SC due to RUS’s crash sealed the deal for Mercedes. Because once LEC came in to get fresh tires he lost position to BOT.

As for LEC - yes he’s fast but he is not bold. Upon G/F restart he had fresher tires, a faster car, but no ummm... well, let’s just say boldness. He’s not going to be champ until the other drivers lose their edge.




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[goin camping]

Ferrari race strategy has always favored driver 1.

They would be better off just letting them race.

[Rock]

Originally Posted by goin camping

Ferrari race strategy has always favored driver 1.

They would be better off just letting them race.

WE would be better off if they just let them race.

[goin camping]

Originally Posted by rock

we would be better off if they just let them race.

So true

[OmegaJJH]

I’m no fan of Ferrari however I think if this had come off it was a tactical stroke of genius!
They turned a 1-3 in to a 1-2.

Multi 21 man is where it all fell apart...?


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[sillo]

I think they should've left Leclerc on the mediums and tried to keep p2 instead of putting on the softs giving it up without a fight.

[RobearH]

Happy SV and Ferrari screwed the pooch and almost officially lost constructors championship over the weekend.

Their team management and strategy are a joke and managed to lose the Russian G.P. with the fastest car.

Side note McLaren look to be on their way back to the top.

[Zakalwe]

A theory for which I have only unconvincing evidence:

For the past three seasons including this one, Merc have been out-developed during the season. Red Bull have narrowed the gap to them in each of those seasons. Ferrari are a bit more difficult to judge because of their penchant for castrating themselves (e.g. they had the fastest car last year until they accidentally downgraded their car after Spa) but overall Mercedes have ended each year closer to RB and Ferrari relative to the beginning of those years. Yet each season they begin with the gap re-opened.

This year, Merc had basically wrapped both championships up by the Summer break and on returning they now have the second fastest car.

Is it plausible to conclude that they have shifted more of their development resources onto next year's car, relative to RB and Ferrari, safe in the knowledge they will be champions this year regardless? if so, expect to see Mecedes dominant yet again at the start of next year.

[sillo]

[QUOTE=Zakalwe;10019090
Is it plausible to conclude that they have shifted more of their development resources onto next year's car, relative to RB and Ferrari, safe in the knowledge they will be champions this year regardless? if so, expect to see Mecedes dominant yet again at the start of next year.[/QUOTE]


2020 car is just an developmental evolution of the current cars. No serious changes are happening to the regulations so stopping the development of the 2019 car doesn’t make sense.

Maybe they’re gearing up for 2021 though.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by sillo38

2020 car is just an developmental evolution of the current cars. No serious changes are happening to the regulations so stopping the development of the 2019 car doesn’t make sense.

Maybe they’re gearing up for 2021 though.

It’s a punt and I’m probably completely wrong. Though I’m not suggesting they would stop development this season, rather plough more manpower into next season than Ferrari and RB at this stage. Also, even in between seasons where there’s no major rule changes, the cars evolve a lot - especially now that in-season testing has been curtailed - so getting a head start on development for next year is potentially advantageous.

[texasmade]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

A theory for which I have only unconvincing evidence:

For the past three seasons including this one, Merc have been out-developed during the season. Red Bull have narrowed the gap to them in each of those seasons. Ferrari are a bit more difficult to judge because of their penchant for castrating themselves (e.g. they had the fastest car last year until they accidentally downgraded their car after Spa) but overall Mercedes have ended each year closer to RB and Ferrari relative to the beginning of those years. Yet each season they begin with the gap re-opened.

This year, Merc had basically wrapped both championships up by the Summer break and on returning they now have the second fastest car.

Is it plausible to conclude that they have shifted more of their development resources onto next year's car, relative to RB and Ferrari, safe in the knowledge they will be champions this year regardless? if so, expect to see Mecedes dominant yet again at the start of next year.

Makes a lot of sense for this year. Mercedes came out of the gate and destroyed everyone the first 7 or 8 races. Now Ferrari has the better car but it doesn't really matter anymore this year. Mercedes has all but locked up the WCC and WDC before the summer break and it would make sense to start focusing on next year.

[Rashid.bk]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

A theory for which I have only unconvincing evidence:

For the past three seasons including this one, Merc have been out-developed during the season. Red Bull have narrowed the gap to them in each of those seasons. Ferrari are a bit more difficult to judge because of their penchant for castrating themselves (e.g. they had the fastest car last year until they accidentally downgraded their car after Spa) but overall Mercedes have ended each year closer to RB and Ferrari relative to the beginning of those years. Yet each season they begin with the gap re-opened.

This year, Merc had basically wrapped both championships up by the Summer break and on returning they now have the second fastest car.

Is it plausible to conclude that they have shifted more of their development resources onto next year's car, relative to RB and Ferrari, safe in the knowledge they will be champions this year regardless? if so, expect to see Mecedes dominant yet again at the start of next year.

You dropping some science right there. Seems very plausible and frankly now that you mention this, if MB is not doing this, they are making a huge mistake, because that Ferrari is a real problem right now.

[OmegaJJH]

Originally Posted by Rashid.bk

You dropping some science right there. Seems very plausible and frankly now that you mention this, if MB is not doing this, they are making a huge mistake, because that Ferrari is a real problem right now.

I hope he’s right too!!!


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[Zakalwe]

Having referenced “multi-21” in a previous comment made during the Russian GP, I saw this video drop from Autosport:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnwz4PxNYtI

I’m sure many if not most on here are familiar with what happened but a quick recap: Webber was leading Vettel to a 1-2 finish in Malaysia in 2013 when after the last round of pit stops the drivers were ordered to hold position to the chequered flag, via the now infamous multi-21 radio call. Vettel simply ignored the call, steamed up to Webber’s gearbox and passed him for the win, resulting in controversy, acrimony and charges that Red Bull and Christian Horner in particular were unable to control their drivers.

The thing that interested me in this video and which I hadn’t been aware of was that by the time of the Malaysian GP, Vettel was still holding a grudge against Webber for squeezing him against the pit wall at Interlagos the previous year, when Vettel was in the championship fight and Webber was not. Vettel saw Webber as not playing the team game in Brazil so when he was told to hold station whilst in a quicker car in Sepang he decided it was payback time.

The parallel with this season is clear. Vettel was audibly annoyed with Leclerc in qualifying at Monza when Seb towed Leclerc to his eventual pole lap at the beginning of Q3 but the favour was not returned on the second run amidst the farce that qualifying devolved into. In that context, Vettel ignoring Ferrari’s orders to let Leclerc past in Sochi, despite agreeing to do so pre-race, could also be seen as him giving his current team-mate some payback.

For the sake of the spectacle, I really hope that Vettel really does see things that way. It could make the Ferrari intra-team battle fascinating for the rest of this season, and perhaps hopefully into next.

[Dr.Brian]

I am looking forward to some payback from Charles soon. Maybe we will see another dramatic double retirement from the two refusing to yield.
Their plan was clear, though Charles seemed to mess it up by laying back and whining and getting so far behind Seb. Stay on his gearbox and take him in 2 laps time with the DRS.
Who knows we might have even thought it was just racing again.


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[sillo]

I think it was also really stupid of them to immediately tell them to switch positions with Lewis so close behind. Let the race develop and do the switch towards the end.

[goin camping]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

Having referenced “multi-21” in a previous comment made during the Russian GP, I saw this video drop from Autosport:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vnwz4PxNYtI

I’m sure many if not most on here are familiar with what happened but a quick recap: Webber was leading Vettel to a 1-2 finish in Malaysia in 2013 when after the last round of pit stops the drivers were ordered to hold position to the chequered flag, via the now infamous multi-21 radio call. Vettel simply ignored the call, steamed up to Webber’s gearbox and passed him for the win, resulting in controversy, acrimony and charges that Red Bull and Christian Horner in particular were unable to control their drivers.

The thing that interested me in this video and which I hadn’t been aware of was that by the time of the Malaysian GP, Vettel was still holding a grudge against Webber for squeezing him against the pit wall at Interlagos the previous year, when Vettel was in the championship fight and Webber was not. Vettel saw Webber as not playing the team game in Brazil so when he was told to hold station whilst in a quicker car in Sepang he decided it was payback time.

The parallel with this season is clear. Vettel was audibly annoyed with Leclerc in qualifying at Monza when Seb towed Leclerc to his eventual pole lap at the beginning of Q3 but the favour was not returned on the second run amidst the farce that qualifying devolved into. In that context, Vettel ignoring Ferrari’s orders to let Leclerc past in Sochi, despite agreeing to do so pre-race, could also be seen as him giving his current team-mate some payback.

For the sake of the spectacle, I really hope that Vettel really does see things that way. It could make the Ferrari intra-team battle fascinating for the rest of this season, and perhaps hopefully into next.

I think it is broader than that.

Remember Vettel bumping Hamilton in the rear and side last year all those post race whiney interviews and on radio bitch fests?

I think it is simpler than you stated. I think that Vettel (While a great driver) is an immature person.

Personally I find it interesting that Charles is faster and the team is already giving him lead driver status and perks. I suspect Ferrari will replace Vettel with a newer younger driver next year or the one after and keep Vettel on contract so he can't race against them like they did with Michael.

[Zakalwe]

Originally Posted by goin camping

I think it is broader than that.

Remember Vettel bumping Hamilton in the rear and side last year all those post race whiney interviews and on radio bitch fests?

I think it is simpler than you stated. I think that Vettel (While a great driver) is an immature person.

Personally I find it interesting that Charles is faster and the team is already giving him lead driver status and perks. I suspect Ferrari will replace Vettel with a newer younger driver next year or the one after and keep Vettel on contract so he can't race against them like they did with Michael.

Yes you’re right, the road rage is strong with Seb.

I will add that though obviously I don’t know the guy, he comes across as pretty level-headed outside the cockpit. He seems to be a classic case of a white-line-fever merchant.

[77T]

Don’t dispute that Ferrari has upped their performance but that may have led to VET’s engine failure. We’ll see in the coming weeks if it’s sustainable.

The 2020 car will likely be a slight evolution since 2021 is a full revamp. We won’t know 2021 specs until late October - but DRS is potentially headed to the dust bin.

First draft:


On Ferrari’s escalating tension in the driver cohort, VET seems to still be the better pure racer. LEC is faster when our front, and in Qually trim. But he fails to show the raw “win or go home” wheel to wheel moments that wins races.

Also the 2020 format may further reward the true racer. At some event weekends, F1 may have a Saturday Qually Sprint Race to replace FP3 & today’s tri-level Qually format. LEC may not do well in those races.

All to be seen - October will be interesting...


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[sillo]

Originally Posted by 77T

The 2020 car will likely be a slight evolution since 2021 is a full revamp. We won’t know 2021 specs until late October - but DRS is potentially headed to the dust bin.

First draft:

They released a significantly revised version of what the 2021 cars are going to look like. They did emphasize that the front wing will probably change. I hope they also consider the aeroscreen that Indycar is going to be fielding next year. I think it looks a lot better and has the advantage of protecting drivers from small debris entering the cockpit.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn2eisHLwwk

[goin camping]

So, looks like Japan will be interesting.

A super typhoon on Saturday and qualifying Sunday morning before the race.

What could go wrong?

[Zakalwe]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50027293

Quelle surprise!

This is what happens when you not only let the turkeys vote on Christmas, you let them on the board of the Yuletide organising committee.

[jatco]

Originally Posted by Zakalwe

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/50027293

Quelle surprise!

This is what happens when you not only let the turkeys vote on Christmas, you let them on the board of the Yuletide organising committee.

but Not...
What the hey, with those new rules..

[walds11]

Quote of the day: “James, it’s Valtteri...”

[texasmade]

I’m pretty surprised that LeClerc wasn’t given a warning or penalized in race for driving a dangerous car and not pitting right away. Ignoring safety orders with a loose end plate flying off just to maintain position is pretty stupid.

[goin camping]

Enjoyable race. Good on Merc for sealing the constructors championship.

Bottles really pulled off a great start too.

[bremersm]

Hamilton’s response to Toto’s radio shows he is a little b**** and not a team player. I am counting the days until he retires to pursue his music career.


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[dba]

Originally Posted by texasmade

I’m pretty surprised that LeClerc wasn’t given a warning or penalized in race for driving a dangerous car and not pitting right away. Ignoring safety orders with a loose end plate flying off just to maintain position is pretty stupid.

He got a 15 second penalty after the race was over, dropping him from 6th to 7th. He got 5 seconds for the initial collision with Verstappen and 10 seconds because Ferrari left him out on course with a damaged car.

I think he got off pretty light. He should have been completely excluded from the results. Ferrari need to get a leash on their new favorite mutt.