Long-Term View On Smaller Pateks

[skippy1416]

Hello Everyone,

I am wondering how others view the long-term desirability of smaller Pateks. In the past watches would grow or shrink with tastes in fashion but at this point it feels like even if there is a shift back to smaller watches that the days of 35 mm cases for men are gone and unlikely to ever return. This means that watches like the 3796 and my 5066 sell for very reasonable sums considering their age. Will these models ever return to desirability in the resale market? I am very pleased with my Aquanaut and the lower resale value allowed me to get back into a Patek at a price that I could afford (and to get a modern automatic with a display back, date display and a second hand). I have also considered adding a 3796R to my collection. I personally think that the smaller models won't appreciate long-term as well as larger ones but I was wondering if others felt the same way. Thoughts?

[stockjock1975]

My 5127 Calatrava is 37mm. I think that is the smallest I would be willing to go. I personally feel that the fad of really big watches (I.e. larger than 44mm) is beginning to fade, but I don't ever foresee watches less than 36mm becoming fashionable again. Just my $0.02.

[Tony64]

But I do think that there will remain a market for smaller, or what some might view as more classic, sized dress watches. Fashion from the 50's and 60's seems to be enjoying a resurgence (think "Mad Men") or perhaps it never really left. That golden era of watchmaking established the size and proportion of the classic men's dress watch at between 33-35mm. Small perhaps, but without all the superfluous complications of power reserve, subdials, etc the dial remains clear, legible, and dare I say expansive?

I think these remain an excellent value and while under appreciated today, their classic design is indeed 'timeless'.

[yessir69]

I agree with Tony. Personally I've owned large watches, including some Pateks. After all the mad flipping, I've landed on the smaller models. Personally, 36mm is the largest I like now. And my daily watch is 34.5 which is fine on my 7 inch wrists.

That all said, the are some great buys on smaller Pateks. And I don't see prices going down.

[ezinhk]

What size of Patek would hold their value in the next 10-20 years?

Almost ALL Patek's will hold its value in the long run but what is a good size for the next decade?

[FeelingTheBlues]

I am most probably biased but I must prefer smaller Patek's myself and don't think they're gone out of fashion. From my experience as a lurker I've noticed that most of the times older Patek's become much better collectibles than the modern ones , very often you'll see a 37mm 5110 or a 36mm 3940 being sold for a greater amount than its original retail price whilst the modern ones will not hold their value as well. Besides, take a look at the older chronographs with perpetual calendars and notice that they are all pretty small (from 35mm to 37mm for the 1518, 2499 and 3970, I believe the only exception is the 5970 but if memory serves it's only 40mm).

Are big watches soon to be extinct? Perhaps but I think there will still be a market for them, however, I don't see smaller watches going out of fashion and never coming back, most of the more sought after watches are quite small and especially when it comes to haute horlogerie brands à la Vacheron, Patek and Jaeger-Lecoultre (the exception being Audemars Piguet if you ask me). I personally just don't see them being forgotten and pushed away by much bigger cases.

P.S.: For what it's worth, the reference 96, known to be the classic Calatrava (or, rather, its ancestor), is a very popular...30mm men's watch!

[powerfunk]

Originally Posted by skippy1416

it feels like even if there is a shift back to smaller watches that the days of 35 mm cases for men are gone and unlikely to ever return.

When jeans got absurdly huge and baggy in the 90's, people probably thought super-skinny jeans on men would never be cool again. But it happened.



<36mm watches are absolutely going to come back. Maybe in 1 year, maybe in 20. Frankly, I don't see how they could get much LESS popular than they are now. Seems like a great time to pick up a 33mm Calatrava to me!

[Puffy]

the original 5035 AC at 37mm is a tad too small for me but it's hotly contested when a nice one does appear!

[johnswatch]

Interesting topic.

I wear large sports watches such as Panerai and Helson but much prefer a smaller watch for dress purposes.

I sought out a ref 96 Patek which is only 31mm and I feel it looks just right with a shirt and suit.

The prices are increasing significantly and ref 96's have gone up by approx 30% in the past few years. I'm not sure how much if that is a return to smaller sizes and how much is driven by Patek's brand recognition which is quickly approaching Rolex proportions in some circles.

There has definately been a slight downsizing in watches recently but nowhere near historical sizes.

[B. Doggy]

I good thread from a forum base that will provide a respectful opinion.

[horseco]

Originally Posted by B. Doggy

I good thread from a forum base that will provide a respectful opinion.

[Andrew NYC]

The popularity, which seems to wane and wax, of larger watches is certainly undisputed however I do think there will always be a market and interest in smaller Patek watches, especially when considering vintage pieces.

I own and wear a broad range of case sizes from a 47mm PAM 232 or Omega ProPlof down to my grandfather's 1951 Patek ref 130 which is 33mm. I find that there's a certain "acclimation" period when going up or down in size but I feel that it only takes a short while to get comfortable with a certain size when it's on your wrist.

I think what can make a big difference is the lug width and corresponding strap width. My 130 has 20mm lugs so the watch feels proportionate and well-sized on my wrist due to the wider strap. Alternatively, I own a Glashutte Original Navigator which has a 44mm case but only 20mm lugs. Funny to think that each of these watches with a case size difference of 12mm can carry the same width strap.

If I were buying a new, current model, watch I doubt I'd go smaller than 36mm (the size of the classic DD or Datejust) and I find my ideal size is in the 38-41mm size. That said I enjoy and wear my smaller diameter watches which I feel are classics in their own right.

A few shots to show the differences.....

[johnswatch]

Here's my ref 96.... I don't think it looks too small on my 7.25" wrist
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[Time Exposure]

I guess I don't follow the trend.

I have worn 32mm watches that seemed way too small for my 7.5" wrist. Some 33mm were okay. But my threshold seems to be 34mm, with a preference of 36mm, and 38mm on the big end for dress watches. On sport watches, 38m to 42mm. I tried a 45mm and sold it after a month because it was so big.

As it relates to the trend, these have been my preferences since I strapped on my first collector watch in 1986. So my preference hasn't changed in over 25 years.

[hennabav]

Patek has always been a timeless watchmaker. In terns of styling and size, they don't follow whats the latest trend. They have gotten larger recently but like others have said, I don't see the large watch trend lasting into the future. Watches will get back into the smaller range between 36-40mm as this is what has always been the classic and ideal watch size. For me, I wear enjoy a Ref 96 at 30.5mm and fits my wrist in a perfectly elegant and classic sense.

[Poodles]

I think smaller watches are now considered a ladies watch, but that's only a personal view

[gtbguy]

Originally Posted by Poodles

I think smaller watches are now considered a ladies watch, but that's only a personal view

Lots of truth here, you see more women wearing a Rolex Mens watch and 31mm size watch. I even see the smaller Pateks listed as "Unisex models" which is leaning towards that thought. Lots of what you see today can be a fad. What you see now is what is "in" and can easily change to something different tomorrow. All in all any Patek is a beautiful piece regardless of size.

Being in the market now I will probably end up buying something larger than the 35mm size.

[justbrowsing]

I think that watches will get smaller again but maybe not as small as before. Many dress watches especially are too big right now. Rolex datejust is perfect at 36mm IMO. Of course many disagree and like datejust2. And wrist size needs to be taken into account if you have a really large wrist.

What women are wearing is not that relevant. People say "she was wearing a 47mm Pam on her tiny wrist and looked great!" Does not mean a guy with a small wrist should do the same.

[vintage69]

Originally Posted by johnswatch

Here's my ref 96.... I don't think it looks too small on my 7.25" wrist
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Beautiful watch. Elegant and outstanding.