Milsub 5513/5517 60 min Bezel, is this a fake?

[hankit]

I'm looking for some spare 60 min bezel for the milsub...and i came across this over the net..

I looked over many website, pictures, and also from actual watch..but I still cannot truly determine if this is the real thing..

Fake ones I mostly saw missing a few details ...but this one does have them..

However some of the numbers detail looks slightly off.. (I'm no expert at all)

Does anyone have more comments or advice for me?

[SubKing]

I saw this insert earlier in the week... I was wondering when someone would finally make a fake including serifs.. I mean, the serifs are all proper for the most part. Only military aftermarket insert I ever saw with em to be honest. But unfortunately it’s not 100% perfect. No replica ever will be. They can get close, but in the end, there will always be something off.. same goes for this one..

It’s not original.

[Haywood_Milton]

Gratuitous mil-sub shot?

[SubKing]

The listing says a thousand words. In the end, the hash marks are wrong in certain areas. Like I said, its the best replica I have seen, just some parts of it don't sit well with me, hash marks and the back of it. the paint is off too.

Honestly, many may have not commented because they are unsure based on the pics you provided. It's a great replica honestly.

here is the link to shed more light on the topic
have at it.
lets hear everyone's thoughts?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bezel-inser...8AAOSwySlaKU2D

[powerfunk]

"Authenticity disclaimer" is enough of a reason to report to eBay. I went ahead and reported it.

Note: We do not guarantee the authenticity of the insert as it may be from service and has some slight variations with the original 1970’s insert.

Yeah...

[highcotton]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Gratuitous mil-sub shot?

Every time I see you post it reminds me of this old thread for some reason.https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=186035

[Mark020]

Care to elaborate about that remark?

[loupe]

Sold for £3755. Ouch

[Kingface66]

Ouch

(my "Ouch" was in reference to digging up that old thread for no reason at all)

[hankit]

I'm just shocked on the final price it lands... I willing to pay that price for a genuine one ...but with so many red flag here and there...I just cannot imagine people still risk on it..

The only give away that i notice is the "30" mark serifs, it looks thicker/fatter than any of other i compare with, and on actual watch that i examine..

But has ever Rolex make the so called service replacement parts for milsub at all?

[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by hankit

But has ever Rolex make the so called service replacement parts for milsub at all?

Indeed they have. In the early 2000s I obtained a new 60’ bezel insert for one of my 5513 mil subs, the part reference in fact including the “5517” nomenclature. The cost was about £70 I think, albeit supplied only in tandem with a standard service.

Such an insert is now a £20,000+ item, because shortly afterwards Rolex ran out of them —- while the mil sub has endured as one of the most collectible vintage Rolex.

My friend Mike Wood asked the General Manager of Rolex U.K. at the time whether he could pay for a new 60’ insert to be made. I believe Mr. Hudson’s response was that the first insert would be £40,000 to cover the tooling-up required, but the second would be more like £100! If Mr. Hudson were still there I would now be tempted to revisit that tongue-in-cheek offer, but the new management at Rolex UK are somewhat different.

Dials were also available, but again no longer.

Sword hands seem to have been the scarcest commodity of all.

Haywood

[Mark020]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

My friend Mike Wood asked the General Manager of Rolex U.K. at the time whether he could pay for a new 60’ insert to be made. I believe Mr. Hudson’s response was that the first insert would be £40,000 to cover the tooling-up required, but the second would be more like £100! If Mr. Hudson were still there I would now be tempted to revisit that tongue-in-cheek offer, but the new management at Rolex UK are somewhat different.

Intriguing. Order 100 and pay GBP 500 per piece. Nice deal

[loupe]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Indeed they have. In the early 2000s I obtained a new 60’ bezel insert for one of my 5513 mil subs, the part reference in fact including the “5517” nomenclature. The cost was about £70 I think, albeit supplied only in tandem with a standard service.

Such an insert is now a £20,000+ item, because shortly afterwards Rolex ran out of them —- while the mil sub has endured as one of the most collectible vintage Rolex.

My friend Mike Wood asked the General Manager of Rolex U.K. at the time whether he could pay for a new 60’ insert to be made. I believe Mr. Hudson’s response was that the first insert would be £40,000 to cover the tooling-up required, but the second would be more like £100! If Mr. Hudson were still there I would now be tempted to revisit that tongue-in-cheek offer, but the new management at Rolex UK are somewhat different.



Dials were also available, but again no longer.

Sword hands seem to have been the scarcest commodity of all.

Haywood

I asked the same question and received a nice letter stating they wouldn’t retool.
That was 2006 when all stock was “exhausted”.
I wonder when the last one was sold? I might have just missed out...

[Johny]

Originally Posted by loupe

I asked the same question and received a nice letter stating they wouldn’t retool.
That was 2006 when all stock was “exhausted”.
I wonder when the last one was sold? I might have just missed out...

Was going to pm you about this thread...

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by loupe

I asked the same question and received a nice letter stating they wouldn’t retool.
That was 2006 when all stock was “exhausted”.
I wonder when the last one was sold? I might have just missed out...

Also in 2006 , I believe mike got it for the princely sym of about £82.

We have been monitoring these fakes for a while now, as before ‘breaking cover’ on eBay a few have been drip Sold at watchfairs / in the trade to people who don’t know better. They eBay seller also sells ‘vintage’ Rare omega parts which I believe some of the omega devotees have questioned also , and quite a few have apparently appeared on watches as original .

Looks like someone has spread their repertoire .

[hankit]

Originally Posted by jedly1

Also in 2006 , I believe mike got it for the princely sym of about £82.

We have been monitoring these fakes for a while now, as before ‘breaking cover’ on eBay a few have been drip Sold at watchfairs / in the trade to people who don’t know better. They eBay seller also sells ‘vintage’ Rare omega parts which I believe some of the omega devotees have questioned also , and quite a few have apparently appeared on watches as original .

Looks like someone has spread their repertoire .

So such high quality fake (or at least get to the point to fool people to pay premium) exist already awhile ago?

I have also been wondering if there are such extreme high quality parts exist to take a dip in the vintage business.

I read somewhere in the forum that, some watchmaker rebuild one of the 5513 to look very much like an actual milsub (I suppose it means to the point where it looks very much like it without giving you red flag)

[jedly1]

Originally Posted by hankit

So such high quality fake (or at least get to the point to fool people to pay premium) exist already awhile ago?

I have also been wondering if there are such extreme high quality parts exist to take a dip in the vintage business.

I read somewhere in the forum that, some watchmaker rebuild one of the 5513 to look very much like an actual milsub (I suppose it means to the point where it looks very much like it without giving you red flag)

They aren’t that great quality , just a lot better than the truly awful ones that have been around forever , they are good enough to fool those that don’t know the subject , or at a distance ... these ones have adopted some of the features that might get looked for when inspecting but in person it’s very apparent they aren’t right , clever wording by the eBay seller covers the reaction a buyer would have the minute they unwrapped it by calling it ‘ a Service version , of different later construction ....

[hankit]

looks like the buyer backed out..now the auction is back with updated info..

[SubKing]

They are stating that they bought it for 20k from a watchmaker for a friends milsub. Later they found out it may be aftermarket and They cannot return it, so they are selling it as is on eBay...

So funny.. if someone sold me an aftermarket part as original and charged me 20k for it, I would sue, not try to resell on eBay at a tremendous loss.

I believe the story is bs and they know exactly what they have. Due to the location in Switzerland, the watch watch capital of the world, it is very likely this was manufactured there by an aftermarket parts manufacturing company (as there are many there) in effort to print the insert very close to the original.

I’m impressed at the quality and closeness.. there may be someone out there who needs a replacement 60 min insert for their milsub, so they may be willing to pay a few grand for an insert this accurate

[spoilsofwar01]

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

Gratuitous mil-sub shot?

I've never seen a 5517 in the flesh and this is the closest I've ever come to seeing one in such detail, very impressed and thank you for sharing.

[southtexas]

There’s an interesting thread over on VRF at the moment. Someone won an eBay auction for $500, and it has apparently 3 old 5513 inserts and 4-5 5517 inserts in it. If they are legit, it might be one of the great eBay finds of all time.

[lee fowler]

Details here.

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...--t248410.html

[southtexas]

Originally Posted by lee fowler

Details here.



https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...--t248410.html

What’s the verdict on the milsub inserts?


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[Haywood_Milton]

Originally Posted by southtexas

What’s the verdict on the milsub inserts?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not original.

[southtexas]

Looks like the inserts may be good after all. Macro pics have been uploaded by eBay buyer. What an incredible find.


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[southtexas]

Originally Posted by southtexas

There’s an interesting thread over on VRF at the moment. Someone won an eBay auction for $500, and it has apparently 3 old 5513 inserts and 4-5 5517 inserts in it. If they are legit, it might be one of the great eBay finds of all time.

I stand corrected; apparently he has 6 milsub inserts. WOW


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[Haywood_Milton]

What is convincing you that the inserts are correct?

[Haywood_Milton]

The verdict I reported earlier was the prevailing one at that time. I'd no access to meaningful images.

Since my post immediately above, I have now seen additional pictures and am open-minded towards these inserts. Would love to see them under a 10x next to my own examples.

[Johny]

Fantastic discovery reading the VRF thread. I hope that they turn out to be genuine.

[Styles Bitchley]

Originally Posted by Johny

Fantastic discovery reading the VRF thread. I hope that they turn out to be genuine.

Consensus seems to be that they're genuine!!

https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/vint...48410-s60.html