1991 16610

[Ryan_SC]

I have been searching for a 16610 submariner, 1991 specifically. I’ve found this watch but wanted you get some opinions from those who are a lot more knowledgeable than myself. This will be a daily wearer, so I’m not worried about finding a mint condition watch. It has obviously been polished, some would probably say over over polished. Just curious if others would buy this watch as a daily wearer? Or should I just scratch the idea of wearing a 30 yo watch daily and buy a more modern sub, like and early to mid 2000s 16610? Thanks

[Ryan_SC]

More pics...

[Ryan_SC]

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[Ryan_SC]

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[Dan S]

I think it would be totally fine as a daily wear watch. I'd just suggest getting it serviced and pressure-tested.

[Ryan_SC]

Originally Posted by Dan S

I think it would be totally fine as a daily wear watch. I'd just suggest getting it serviced and pressure-tested.

Thanks for the advice, who do you recommend sending it to for a service and pressure test?

[AkshayArgade]

date is less magnified.

[Ryan_SC]

Originally Posted by AkshayArgade

date is less magnified.

I agree it does look less magnified in these pics. I will say though in person it looks much more magnified. However, if it is indeed less magnified I guess that would indicate a replacement crystal, non-Rolex part, was installed?

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by Ryan_SC

Thanks for the advice, who do you recommend sending it to for a service and pressure test?

There are plenty of recommendations in other threads, this question is asked constantly. Or you can pay a little more and have it done by Rolex. It's a relatively modern watch, so there should be no trouble.

[1665fan]

It’s perfect for a daily driver.... nice watch, the worst part is the crown on the buckle has been polished off

[ciceroyeah]

Originally Posted by Ryan_SC

I agree it does look less magnified in these pics. I will say though in person it looks much more magnified. However, if it is indeed less magnified I guess that would indicate a replacement crystal, non-Rolex part, was installed?

It's possible the crystal is non-authentic, magnification looks small to me. It's also possible the entire watch is a franken of various real parts cheaply acquired online and assembled by the seller.

16610s are pretty common and you can definitely get cleaner, less over-polished examples with all-original parts and working lume from the late 90s and on, if you shop around a little. If you're stuck on 91, better examples can be had from trusted dealers easily enough too. That would be my recommendation for a daily wear.

And remember, buy the seller. If the seller isn't someone well known with lots of good reviews on TRF or is otherwise a trustworthy local store, beware. There's no such thing as a really great deal on a submariner these days. If the price is too good to be true, there's probably something seriously wrong with it.

You don't want to be stuck with a basket-case you overpaid for, or a franken. A little diligence now prevents a lot of pain in the future.

[Ryan_SC]

Originally Posted by ciceroyeah

It's possible the crystal is non-authentic, magnification looks small to me. It's also possible the entire watch is a franken of various real parts cheaply acquired online and assembled by the seller.

16610s are pretty common and you can definitely get cleaner, less over-polished examples with all-original parts and working lume from the late 90s and on, if you shop around a little. If you're stuck on 91, better examples can be had from trusted dealers easily enough too. That would be my recommendation for a daily wear.

And remember, buy the seller. If the seller isn't someone well known with lots of good reviews on TRF or is otherwise a trustworthy local store, beware. There's no such thing as a really great deal on a submariner these days. If the price is too good to be true, there's probably something seriously wrong with it.

You don't want to be stuck with a basket-case you overpaid for, or a franken. A little diligence now prevents a lot of pain in the future.

That sounds like great advice, I appreciate it. The seller has great feedback on chrono 24, and has been great to deal with. I have a 14 day return window and actually took the watch to a trusted local watch dealer for an inspection. I don’t feel like the price is too good to be true at 8200 usd. I suppose I need to decide if the year is that important to me because I do feel like I could get a great example from a later year with box and papers for possibly a slightly higher price.

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ciceroyeah

It's also possible the entire watch is a franken of various real parts cheaply acquired online and assembled by the seller.

...

And remember, buy the seller. If the seller isn't someone well known with lots of good reviews on TRF or is otherwise a trustworthy local store, beware. There's no such thing as a really great deal on a submariner these days. If the price is too good to be true, there's probably something seriously wrong with it.

Just curious what specifically you are seeing that leads you to suggest this. Or are you just trying to scare the OP for no particular reason? And the OP said nothing to identify the seller, or about the price being super-cheap.

Or maybe you are suggesting that the entire watch is fake or aftermarket? If so, can you point to specific details? A crystal is no big deal, even if it has been replaced.

[baumare]

Looks like you are ok with the condition of the watch, I agree regarding the daily wear, my beat up watches are the one I wear more often, but still I would check the serial number in case they have been mess with it.
Good luck with the purchase!

[ciceroyeah]

Originally Posted by Dan S

Just curious what specifically you are seeing that leads you to suggest this. Or are you just trying to scare the OP for no particular reason? It's not generally cheap to assemble a good-looking Rolex from authentic parts acquired online. If you think you can make money doing that, you should try it. This watch looks legit to me, with wear / polishing / patina consistent with age. And the OP said nothing to identify the seller, or about the price being super-cheap.

Or maybe you are suggesting that the watch is fake or aftermarket? If so, can you point to specific details?

If OP doesn't want to listen to my advice he's free not to, my point is that people should be careful and diligent when buying vintage examples of the most famous luxury watch in the world, because there are huge numbers of fakes, frankens, and basketcases with undisclosed problems out there. Plenty of scammers are more than willing to trick someone to either make a quick buck or get a bad purchase off their books.

I am not saying it's a fake watch, but it has some suspicious features. The specific clue (which many have mentioned) is that the cyclops does not magnify the date adequately for a 16610. It should be 2.5 times, and it's nowhere even near that. This part is very likely a cheap "aftermarket" replacement crystal, which leads me to a suspicion that at best it was cheaply serviced after the crystal was damaged, and at worst there may be other non-OEM parts installed, or service parts, or parts swapped from other watches, or it's a franken. OP did not provide any information about the seller or the piece, but my point is only that, if anyone is new to this and is going to drop thousands on a vintage watch, they should be aware of the very real possibilities of getting ripped off when dealing with unknown sellers, and be very careful.

[ryn]

I purchased a 91 2 years ago and just sent off to RSC after it stopped running. Mine had an aftermarket crystal (RSC is replacing) but all other parts were genuine. My service bill is $2.4k - something to keep in mind.

[MrChamfers]

Originally Posted by ryn

I purchased a 91 2 years ago and just sent off to RSC after it stopped running. Mine had an aftermarket crystal (RSC is replacing) but all other parts were genuine. My service bill is $2.4k - something to keep in mind.

!!

[Dan S]

Originally Posted by ryn

My service bill is $2.4k - something to keep in mind.

Holy Crap! They must be replacing everything. Did you approve all of the optional/recommended items? Including the bracelet?

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by ryn

I purchased a 91 2 years ago and just sent off to RSC after it stopped running. Mine had an aftermarket crystal (RSC is replacing) but all other parts were genuine. My service bill is $2.4k - something to keep in mind.

Wow. Must have included some parts?. The movement only service is not that high.

[swaini3]

OP, I wouldnt pass on that watch if the price is right and you want a daily beater. Just get it checked at a competent watchmaker before you buy it.

[SDREW22]

2.4K. Wow.

[ryn]

Originally Posted by swaini3

Wow. Must have included some parts?. The movement only service is not that high.

Honestly, I was in a meeting when my AD called for authorization, so I only got a high level overview. The bracelet isn't being replaced, I know that alone is around $2k. Here is what I know:

1. Moisture got in.
2. Clasp is slightly bent and needs to be replaced.
3. Crystal is not genuine.
4. Face is being replaced.
5. Many internal parts need to be replaced, resulting in longer time needed for service.

Once I have the watch back and full details of service I will definitely share on this forum. With all of that said, I am still VERY happy with my watch and never plan on parting with it.

[swish77]

An old 16610 is fine as a daily watch, but I'd pass on this example. The case is over polished, and the crown guards have been reduced to little nubs. And as mentioned, the crown on the bracelet clasp has been mercilessly polished away! Why do they do it!? A real hack went at this watch/bracelet.

These are relatively easy to find on the secondary market, so why settle for a sub-par example (no pun intended)?

[ciceroyeah]

Another issue, the rotor may be loose as it appears to have scraped (or be scraping) the plating off the edge of the movement revealing the brass. If the watch is authenticated by a competent rolex watchmaker and it’s a low price including the cost of an initial servicing and OEM crystal, it might not be a bad watch for a daily wear as you can bash it up without losing much aesthetic value. Not what I would go for though.

[swaini3]

Originally Posted by ryn

Honestly, I was in a meeting when my AD called for authorization, so I only got a high level overview. The bracelet isn't being replaced, I know that alone is around $2k. Here is what I know:

1. Moisture got in.
2. Clasp is slightly bent and needs to be replaced.
3. Crystal is not genuine.
4. Face is being replaced.
5. Many internal parts need to be replaced, resulting in longer time needed for service.

Once I have the watch back and full details of service I will definitely share on this forum. With all of that said, I am still VERY happy with my watch and never plan on parting with it.

I see, thanks for the breakdown.

[britxt0]

It's not bad for a daily wear. Considering the replaced parts and condition of the watch, I don't think it will worth much.

[CJS57]

I have always found it is better to pay more for a much nicer, more original, and recently serviced example.

[thesharkfactor]

Originally Posted by ryn

Honestly, I was in a meeting when my AD called for authorization, so I only got a high level overview. The bracelet isn't being replaced, I know that alone is around $2k. Here is what I know:

1. Moisture got in.
2. Clasp is slightly bent and needs to be replaced.
3. Crystal is not genuine.
4. Face is being replaced.
5. Many internal parts need to be replaced, resulting in longer time needed for service.

Once I have the watch back and full details of service I will definitely share on this forum. With all of that said, I am still VERY happy with my watch and never plan on parting with it.

Nooooooooo! A tritium dial? I wouldn't let them do that at all

[cht]

Originally Posted by ciceroyeah

If OP doesn't want to listen to my advice he's free not to, my point is that people should be careful and diligent when buying vintage examples of the most famous luxury watch in the world, because there are huge numbers of fakes, frankens, and basketcases with undisclosed problems out there. Plenty of scammers are more than willing to trick someone to either make a quick buck or get a bad purchase off their books.

I am not saying it's a fake watch, but it has some suspicious features. The specific clue (which many have mentioned) is that the cyclops does not magnify the date adequately for a 16610. It should be 2.5 times, and it's nowhere even near that. This part is very likely a cheap "aftermarket" replacement crystal, which leads me to a suspicion that at best it was cheaply serviced after the crystal was damaged, and at worst there may be other non-OEM parts installed, or service parts, or parts swapped from other watches, or it's a franken. OP did not provide any information about the seller or the piece, but my point is only that, if anyone is new to this and is going to drop thousands on a vintage watch, they should be aware of the very real possibilities of getting ripped off when dealing with unknown sellers, and be very careful.

I guess you didn’t know that ROlex and RSC had bad batches of crystals for several years a few years ago that plagued many new watches. all the watches that were serviced during that time and needed a new crystal, the replacement ones were also sent out with low magnification.

So there’s no way you can say just because the magnification is low that it means it’s a cheap aftermarket fake Crystal.

It may very well be an OEM replacement that was performed a few years back, and to say that this could be a Frankenstein watch based on cyclops mag alone is a terrible thing to say to a potential buyer Without any further substantiation.

[Andad]

Hi Ryan,

Reading through the posts and considering the possible crystal and obvious clasp issues I would pass on this one.

I would consider purchasing it only after receiving a service quotation from a RSC.