PAM 312 really good in this time?

[turkton]

Hi all,

I'm a newbie for this forum, please advise me
I interest in PAM 312, but it's really good in this time, worth to buy?

thanks

[omg]

Just IMO, I would buy Rolex at that price range.
Pam, I would go for base.
Happy hunting!

[B. Doggy]

Yes, the 312 is a great piece!

[Joey_V]

At the price range of the 312, I think it is a fantastic value compared to other Pams - especially the base. For approx $2K more than the base, you get a 1950 case, a sapphire caseback, a p.9000 panerai movement, a date, and the sandwich dial.

No comparison if you're looking for the best bang for your buck.

You can also get a Rolex but your choices are limited to SubDate, GMTIIC among others. Keep in mind, you can get these anytime - but if you have a 312 pop into your dealer, you better move fast unless you like dealing with grey market dealers or used pieces on the forum.

Get the 312.

[jcatral14]

The 312 is a great piece. It'll prolly be my next PAM

[mike]

If you've never handled a 312 you need to. It's a knockout.

[turkton]

thanks to everyone :P

I worry about 1950 brushed case, it's easy to scratch?
and one point is Crystal sapphire,
it's made from corundum, 2.6mm thick, thinner than PAM005 (3.5mm thick)

any opinion for me :P

[bcacncnc]

I think the brushed case will camoflague scratches better than the polished case. As for the sapphire thickness, from a day-to-day standpoint, probably makes no material difference.

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by turkton

thanks to everyone :P

I worry about 1950 brushed case, it's easy to scratch?
and one point is Crystal sapphire,
it's made from corundum, 2.6mm thick, thinner than PAM005 (3.5mm thick)

any opinion for me :P

When I bought my first PAM, I did so thinking it was going to be my new daily wearer. I figured that since it was designed as a military watch it should take the normal amount of wear and tear since that I'm especially careful with all my watches.

As I wore it every day over the course of a month, the swirl marks on the polished bezel of my 125 were alarming to me compared to what I was used to. My daily wearer is a Breitling Chronomat that I've had since 1996. In all those years of wearing it, it hardly shows any swirl marks. With that said, I can't say that it is easily scratched but it appears to be more delicate than my Breitling. I remember a guy at tourneau once told me that Breitling uses 440 stainless while most watches like Panerai are 316L

[dotcomakazee]

I think the PAM 312 is a better value than any Rolex sports model. Don't get me wrong, I lOVE the Rolex sports models, but the 312 is so unique and it is truly a stunning piece and you can have fun with the different straps and whatnot. The 1950's case is a definite upgrade over the base model and is pretty scratch resistant.

[KarlFr]

Can recommend the 312, simply stunning!

[theken]

I bought a 312K the first time I found one on display at a AD in Ohio.
It is one of my favorite Panerai watches and I think it fits very nicely into any Panerai collection.
If I owned one Panerai, it would be my choice.

[dantheman20192]

Originally Posted by omg

Just IMO, I would buy Rolex at that price range.
Pam, I would go for base.
Happy hunting!

Terrible advice.

[dotcomakazee]

Originally Posted by dantheman20192

Terrible advice.

Agreed. Bad advice...

[turkton]

and about Time accurate?
P.9000 is acculate or not? (when compare to other automatic watch)

[omg]

Originally Posted by dantheman20192

Terrible advice.

Sorry guys, I didn't mean to upset 312 owner. It's just my point of view (IMO). I have seen one in person and it didn't do me. I would buy GMT IIc for that money.
That's just me who is coming from Rolex. No mean to disrespect.

[s3lasinc]

312's a great watch. I'm on my 2nd one after selling my first one to want another. If the watch sings to you, it'll always be a good time to buy.

Cheers,

Perry

[johnswatch]

Originally Posted by dotcomakazee

The 1950's case is a definite upgrade over the base model and is pretty scratch resistant.

Let me add a contrary viewpoint to this 312 love-in

When you ding a brushed case the dinged area will be shiny or at least another shade of grey. Brushed cases show minor marks much more than polished - fact.

How is a different case shape an 'upgrade'? Does it do something the non-1950 case shape doesn't - apart from sit higher on the wrist?

The 312 is a very nice piece in it's own right but is it worth the extra few grand?

Not in my opinion. At least - not yet......

Remember that the 312 movement is very new. Panerai owners seem to be very tolerant of poor engineering. It seems that a very large percentage of 233 owners have had issues with their movements. This goes largely unremarked but a quick search will surprise you. It's equally possible (probable?) that 9000 series owners will have issues.

Rolex make millions of watches and have had a long time to iron out any bugs in their movements. Panerai is a very small operation new to making movements and unless it's all totally contracted out to a large movement maker they have a high chance of having issues.

If it is all contracted out then at what point is it truly an in-house movement?


Parts availability - will you be able to get parts for your 9000 series calibre in 10 years time? What about 20 years? I'm wearing a 28 yr old Rolex which still keeps amazing time and parts are still available. Any ETA or Valjoux based movement parts will be equally available.

If you're paying Patek or Lange prices then you can afford to have custom made any parts no longer available should the manufacturer disappear. At those prices it would still make economic sense.

Go and have a look at the 312 and see if if you like it. The case is very different to the regular luminor case. The 312 won't fit under a formal shirt cuff easily and would probably be a step too far in an office environment. The regular case can just about pull it off.

The 312 movement is very plain. I like the rugged look but it could have doen with some more textures as the 312 case is a riot of shape and texture. The notoriously bland Rolex movement is an artistic marvel in comparison.

I must say that I'm very sceptical that the 312 isn't COSC certified.

If it's as good as hype would have you believe then it should pass the tests easily. At the price point there's plenty of spare margin for Panerai to pay for the test.

Bear in mind that there's absolutely no technical information available on the 9000 series movements. Does it incorporate all the latest innovations in movement design with regards to even power delivery, design of the balance spring , balance wheel etc?

In short - what exactly am I getting for my extra $2k other than bragging rights?

Please keep in ind that this is a friendly devil's advocate view. I like the look of the 312 and very nearly bought one....

[oyster21]

If this is your first PAM, I would suggest to get a base model to get the vibe. Plenty choices such as PAM 000, 005, 111, 112, etc.
312 is a quite interesting piece I should say, maybe a bit bias coz I own one. 1950 case, dome crystal, its thickness, new movement, those are the things that interest me the most.

As far as COSC, none of the in-house movements has COSC. Panerai does their own testing, which is more detailed inspection than COSC.
Found from the older post... http://rolexforums.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=16

Nonetheless, good luck on your decision. You can find a bargain price out there.
Keep us updated.

Cheers,
Eko

Oh... several shots to poison your mind :) :)

[turkton]

I already own PAM005, but I found 312 is more beautiful, in my opinion, it's classic :P

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by johnswatch

When you ding a brushed case the dinged area will be shiny or at least another shade of grey. Brushed cases show minor marks much more than polished - fact.....

And some people don't want a completely polished case---fact

Originally Posted by johnswatch

How is a different case shape an 'upgrade'? Does it do something the non-1950 case shape doesn't - apart from sit higher on the wrist?....

Funny... I just "upgraded" my stove from a GE to a Viking range and my GE refridgerator to a Sub-Zero. Niether does more than their predecessor but every person who knows about kitchens would consider those as upgrades, including me. Same goes for the 1950 case. Because the 1950 case was only available in more expensive and/or complicated models, the 312 was the model that filled the gap.

Originally Posted by johnswatch

Remember that the 312 movement is very new. Panerai owners seem to be very tolerant of poor engineering. It seems that a very large percentage of 233 owners have had issues with their movements. This goes largely unremarked but a quick search will surprise you. It's equally possible (probable?) that 9000 series owners will have issues....

I've heard of a few instances with the 270 but I doubt its anymore common than any other new movement that was designed from the ground up. I haven't heard of issues with the P9000 movement but there arent a lot out there and of those, not a lot on this forum.

Originally Posted by johnswatch

Parts availability - will you be able to get parts for your 9000 series calibre in 10 years time? What about 20 years? I'm wearing a 28 yr old Rolex which still keeps amazing time and parts are still available. Any ETA or Valjoux based movement parts will be equally available.

If you're paying Patek or Lange prices then you can afford to have custom made any parts no longer available should the manufacturer disappear. At those prices it would still make economic sense....

Panerai is part of a $9B USD company. I would guess they'll continue to make parts for years after this movement is phased out-if that were to happen. Besides, if Panerai were to completely disappear off the face of the planet, everyone of us 312 owners would be proud owners of a watch that just quadrupled in value!

Originally Posted by johnswatch

Go and have a look at the 312 and see if if you like it. The case is very different to the regular luminor case. The 312 won't fit under a formal shirt cuff easily and would probably be a step too far in an office environment. The regular case can just about pull it off....

Having both the 1950 case and Luminor case, the 1950 does sit higher but more comfortable to wear however I don't have a problem fitting wither under my cuffs. Basically, I have the edge of the bezel and crown guard sticking out of my cuff and I love it. I give presentations almost every day of the week and my pams are my only watches that catch peoples eye's.

Originally Posted by johnswatch

I must say that I'm very sceptical that the 312 isn't COSC certified.

If it's as good as hype would have you believe then it should pass the tests easily. At the price point there's plenty of spare margin for Panerai to pay for the test....

This may be the only point that I agree with you on but it wasn't an issue for me as all. My first Breitling Chronomat wasn't COSC either.

Originally Posted by johnswatch

In short - what exactly am I getting for my extra $2k other than bragging rights?....

I can't speak for anyone else but it was well worth the premium. In fact, I went to the AD to pick up a 233 but the 312 was everything I wanted in a PAM so I see it as a bargain.

Originally Posted by johnswatch

Please keep in ind that this is a friendly devil's advocate view. I like the look of the 312 and very nearly bought one?

[rr-nyc]

Originally Posted by oyster21

If this is your first PAM, I would suggest to get a base model to get the vibe. Plenty choices such as PAM 000, 005, 111, 112, etc.
312 is a quite interesting piece I should say, maybe a bit bias coz I own one. 1950 case, dome crystal, its thickness, new movement, those are the things that interest me the most.

As far as COSC, none of the in-house movements has COSC. Panerai does their own testing, which is more detailed inspection than COSC.
Found from the older post... http://rolexforums.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=16

Nonetheless, good luck on your decision. You can find a bargain price out there.
Keep us updated.

Cheers,
Eko

Oh... several shots to poison your mind :) :)

Good info... I never saw that thread. Where did you get those straps?

[johnswatch]

[QUOTE=oyster21;1481600]

As far as COSC, none of the in-house movements has COSC. Panerai does their own testing, which is more detailed inspection than COSC.
Found from the older post... http://rolexforums.com/showpost.php?...7&postcount=16

But why? COSC certification is a very highly regarded hurdle. Do they not do it to save money or do their movements not pass?

Why not put the other movements through the same process then?

Why when we're spending such vast amounts of cash do we not question or query this?

[Trurolexer]

I just want to say...GO FOR IT!!!

[dotcomakazee]

I have an excelent source for a dealer if anyone is looking for a 312. I did a fax blast to 20 dealers and said "give me your best shot' and got a great deal this way. PM me for the dealer if you want the info.

[dannyjak]

Originally Posted by dotcomakazee

I have an excelent source for a dealer if anyone is looking for a 312. I did a fax blast to 20 dealers and said "give me your best shot' and got a great deal this way. PM me for the dealer if you want the info.

Shame the Australian market is not as big as the US

I paid full RRP for my 312 =( tried several tricks, no luck with a discount

[Timber Loftis]

[QUOTE=johnswatch;1481615]

Originally Posted by oyster21

But why? COSC certification is a very highly regarded hurdle. Do they not do it to save money or do their movements not pass?

COSC certification is being widely challenged in the industry now. Patek created their own certification, on the notion that COSC just isn't good enough.

Regarding the Panerai in-house movements, are they as "noisy" (vibration-prone) as some of the ETA movement watches like my Pam 244? Coming from Rolex, it's hard getting used to other watch brands like IWC and Pam that have this vibrating noisy movements.