SIHH 2017 Thread - Rumors, Facts, Etc...

[texex91]

Ti rocks--can't wait for it to show up!

(And this is coming from a previous Ti Schumi owner--it's nothing close to Schumi)

[yachty 1]

Originally Posted by texex91

Ti rocks--can't wait for it to show up!

(And this is coming from a previous Ti Schumi owner--it's nothing close to Schumi)

Ti definitely rocks. Schumi is a amazing piece but I think this one is equally impresive. For less then the price of a Schumi.

[911Cab]

Originally Posted by texex91

Ti rocks--can't wait for it to show up!

(And this is coming from a previous Ti Schumi owner--it's nothing close to Schumi)

Paul, I'm a Shumi owner myself. You have to agree the case & Dial of the new Ti are identical to the Shumi Ti.


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[texex91]

Originally Posted by 911Cab

Paul, I'm a Shumi owner myself. You have to agree the case & Dial of the new Ti are identical to the Shumi Ti.


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Two different watches--sorry.

You don't like new Ti, no worries, but think it will do great and it's killer IMHO.

Take care.

[911Cab]

Originally Posted by texex91

Two different watches--sorry.

Nothing to be Sorry about. Two different opinions


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[yachty 1]

Borrowed image, totally different looking

[911Cab]

Originally Posted by yachty 1

Borrowed image, totally different looking

Here's my image. The Dial is the same not including the flange or the sub dials and the case is the same size in Ti. Not to mention the same grey rubber strap.




Edo's Pic :






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[yachty 1]

Maybe I am wrong but bezel completely different not only material but lugs,different inner ring,different crown,different pushers,different chrono dials anything else I am forgetting?

[Phaedrus29]

Those are incredibly different looking watches, with respect to almost every design element.

[911Cab]

Originally Posted by yachty 1

Maybe I am wrong but bezel completely different not only material but lugs,different inner ring,different crown,different pushers,different chrono dials anything else I am forgetting?

I said 3 things are very similar, case, Dial(without the sub dials ) & strap


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[911Cab]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus29

Those are incredibly different looking watches, with respect to almost every design element.

See my response below.


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[Phaedrus29]

Originally Posted by 911Cab

I said 3 things are very similar, case, Dial(without the sub dials ) & strap

Well you said they were "identical". To me the dials look very different...yes the subdials have different designs but they also have different sizes...this changes the look/shape of the tapisserie dials. The minutes chapter ring is also completely different and the hour markers protrude onto the dial in one case and not on the other, again changing the appearance of the dials.

[911Cab]

Originally Posted by Phaedrus29

Well you said they were "identical". To me the dials look very different...yes the subdials have different designs but they also have different sizes...this changes the look/shape of the tapisserie dials. The minutes chapter ring is also completely different and the hour markers protrude onto the dial in one case and not on the other, again changing the appearance of the dials.

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[yoast]

Are the dials of the new 44's stamped?

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by yoast

Are the dials of the new 44's stamped?

Aren't all 44 + Diver (latest gen) dials stamped?


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[IS250C]

Titanium seems to generate a lot of interest. I am wondering if titanium is scratch proof. Also roughly how much lighter is the 44 titanium vs stainless and ceramic 44?

[masterserg]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Aren't all 44 + Diver (latest gen) dials stamped?


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Yes.

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by yoast

Are the dials of the new 44's stamped?

All ROO dials are now.

Originally Posted by IS250C

Titanium seems to generate a lot of interest. I am wondering if titanium is scratch proof. Also roughly how much lighter is the 44 titanium vs stainless and ceramic 44?

Scratchproof no, but harder than 316/904 SS.
Ceramic is lighter than Ti.

[jem7v]

What does everyone mean by stamped? What was the previous method?

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by jem7v

What does everyone mean by stamped? What was the previous method?

The square pattern (mega tapisserie) is literally stamped into a flat thin metal plate instead of the engraved technique acheived using a guilloché machine that you would find on the standard Royal Oak and the pre sapphire case back Divers.


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[edo]

It's OK for these truly sport models - Offshores to be stamped... but if they ever make stamped dial on the 15202 or any 2/3 hand RO model that will kill the magic...

[PJ S]

Originally Posted by jem7v

What does everyone mean by stamped?

Stamped means a bit of textured paper with a gum backing.
The dial makers tear off one of the stamps, lick the back of it (which makes the gum sticky), then place it on the plain brass disc.
If any part of the stamp looks like it isn’t sticking too well, they give it a thump – to show it who’s boss.

Originally Posted by jem7v

What was the previous method?

Previously, AP used to hire Swiss gnomes, who’d come in during the night, with their little hammers and chisels, to make the raised pattern known as 'Grand Tapisserie'.
Naturally, this was more expensive due to the cost of contracting the gnomes, as well as taking longer to produce each one.
In order to ensure the ROOs didn’t double in price, they opted for the cheaper, and quicker, licking and stamping process.

[911Cab]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Stamped means a bit of textured paper with a gum backing.
The dial makers tear off one of the stamps, lick the back of it (which makes the gum sticky), then place it on the plain brass disc.
If any part of the stamp looks like it isn’t sticking too well, they give it a thump – to show it who’s boss.



Previously, AP used to hire Swiss gnomes, who’d come in during the night, with their little hammers and chisels, to make the raised pattern known as 'Grand Tapisserie'.
Naturally, this was more expensive due to the cost of contracting the gnomes, as well as taking longer to produce each one.
In order to ensure the ROOs didn’t double in price, the opted for the cheaper, and quicker, licking and stamping process.

You must have worked at AP. Thanks for the insight.


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[benlee]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Stamped means a bit of textured paper with a gum backing.
The dial makers tear off one of the stamps, lick the back of it (which makes the gum sticky), then place it on the plain brass disc.
If any part of the stamp looks like it isn’t sticking too well, they give it a thump – to show it who’s boss.



Previously, AP used to hire Swiss gnomes, who’d come in during the night, with their little hammers and chisels, to make the raised pattern known as 'Grand Tapisserie'.
Naturally, this was more expensive due to the cost of contracting the gnomes, as well as taking longer to produce each one.
In order to ensure the ROOs didn’t double in price, they opted for the cheaper, and quicker, licking and stamping process.

PJ, are you a watchmaker? You seems to have indepth knowledge and understanding on the inner workings of watches. BTW, I am referring to the 1st paragraph only.

[csi-n]

Originally Posted by IS250C

Titanium seems to generate a lot of interest. I am wondering if titanium is scratch proof. Also roughly how much lighter is the 44 titanium vs stainless and ceramic 44?

Originally Posted by PJ S

Scratchproof no, but harder than 316/904 SS.
Ceramic is lighter than Ti.

Assuming AP uses Grade 5 Titanium (this is my experience from a JLC model that I own), Ti is 45% lighter than 304/316/904 stainless steel. This grade of Ti has a Vickers hardness of ~350 whereas the steels mentioned here are about ~150-160. So the Ti is more scratch resistant than steel but nowhere as good as ceramic. My JLC is full of scratches both on the bezel and the case (I've been pretty tough on it though).

BTW, I am very excited about the new 44mm ROO Ti and can't wait to see one in person.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Stamped means a bit of textured paper with a gum backing.
The dial makers tear off one of the stamps, lick the back of it (which makes the gum sticky), then place it on the plain brass disc.
If any part of the stamp looks like it isn’t sticking too well, they give it a thump – to show it who’s boss.



Previously, AP used to hire Swiss gnomes, who’d come in during the night, with their little hammers and chisels, to make the raised pattern known as 'Grand Tapisserie'.
Naturally, this was more expensive due to the cost of contracting the gnomes, as well as taking longer to produce each one.
In order to ensure the ROOs didn’t double in price, they opted for the cheaper, and quicker, licking and stamping process.

This made me laugh lol. Ok so why are they trying to cut costs now and go to stamped? Does it look any different? For instance can you tell a difference between the engraved dial or the stamped?

Honestly though for the dial to be like a sticker or whatever, that seems really cheap for this expensive of a watch. That is honestly a little disappointing.

[Phaedrus29]

He was joking about the sticker part. The stamped dial is certainly made with a less interesting process, but it does perhaps have a cleaner and sportier look, which some people might think is more suitable for these larger sportier models.

[jem7v]

Originally Posted by PJ S

Stamped means a bit of textured paper with a gum backing.
The dial makers tear off one of the stamps, lick the back of it (which makes the gum sticky), then place it on the plain brass disc.
If any part of the stamp looks like it isn’t sticking too well, they give it a thump – to show it who’s boss.



Previously, AP used to hire Swiss gnomes, who’d come in during the night, with their little hammers and chisels, to make the raised pattern known as 'Grand Tapisserie'.
Naturally, this was more expensive due to the cost of contracting the gnomes, as well as taking longer to produce each one.
In order to ensure the ROOs didn’t double in price, they opted for the cheaper, and quicker, licking and stamping process.

Originally Posted by Phaedrus29

He was joking about the sticker part. The stamped dial is certainly made with a less interesting process, but it does perhaps have a cleaner and sportier look, which some people might think is more suitable for these larger sportier models.

I know it's not literally a sticker. But then does the machine stamp the engraving so to speak? As opposed to doing the engraving by hand? At the end of the day is there a difference in the look between the 2 methods? That is really what matters lol.

[edo]

Originally Posted by jem7v

This made me laugh lol. Ok so why are they trying to cut costs now and go to stamped? Does it look any different? For instance can you tell a difference between the engraved dial or the stamped?

Honestly though for the dial to be like a sticker or whatever, that seems really cheap for this expensive of a watch. That is honestly a little disappointing.

Here is two blue dials... the one is the Ro, and the other is stamped ROO... you can see clear differences...

[Phaedrus29]

Originally Posted by jem7v

I know it's not literally a sticker. But then does the machine stamp the engraving so to speak? As opposed to doing the engraving by hand? At the end of the day is there a difference in the look between the 2 methods? That is really what matters lol.

The engraved tapisserie dials are made using an old machine called a pantograph...you can see a video of how AP does it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0uW37FnCLM

As you can see from edo's pics, there is a difference in appearance (but it's much more noticeable in these macro pics). The engraved dials have that circular pattern and added texture.