What’s so wrong with Patek Philippe AC?

[JJ WA]

The ACs used to be well regarded watches. Of course, not at the same league as PCs or PCCs, but they had a solid share of mind and appreciation. Now, a number of fellow TRF members generically refer to it as the ‘dog of horology’, ‘something to skip’, ‘the ‘least desirable PP watches’, and so on. The funny thing is that most of these comments come from folks who owned AC models before. Is that just anger at taking a hit when trading the watch? Or something else? Sure, the ACs may not be so great in value retention, but the same is true with most PP watches apart from the sports models and still we don't see people so vocally hammering the Calatravas, Chronos, Grand Complications. Just wondered what happened over the last couple of years...

[benlee]

Originally Posted by JJ WA

The ACs used to be well regarded watches. Of course, not at the same league as PCs or PCCs, but they had a solid share of mind and appreciation. Now, a number of fellow TRF members generically refer to it as the ‘dog of horology’, ‘something to skip’, ‘the ‘least desirable PP watches’, and so on. The funny thing is that most of these comments come from folks who owned AC models before. Is that just anger at taking a hit when trading the watch? Or something else? Sure, the ACs may not be so great in value retention, but the same is true with most PP watches apart from the sports models and still we don't see people so vocally hammering the Calatravas, Chronos, Grand Complications. Just wondered what happened over the last couple of years...

Why would anyone say that? That's very ignorant. ACs are the value proposition in the Patek dress watch lineup and for a bit more, one has a useful complication + moonphase.

I have a 5205R AC and still love it after 4 years. It's not a sports watch and never meant to be one. It's a classic piece for me and my goto watch for the dressy formal occassion. If I am to sell it I can still recover back 70 to 80% of the price I pay for which is not bad, way better than what I can get for lesser brands.

[jrs146]

Originally Posted by benlee

Why would anyone say that? That's very ignorant. ACs are the value proposition in the Patek dress watch lineup and for a bit more, one has a useful complication + moonphase.



I have a 5205R AC and still love it after 4 years. It's not a sports watch and never meant to be one. It's a classic piece for me and my goto watch for the dressy formal occassion. If I am to sell it I can still recover back 70 to 80% of the price I pay for which is not bad, way better than what I can get for lesser brands.

That’s a really great pic!


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[GoingPlaces]

Not sure about "dog of horology" but PP AC's definitely not keeping up with the Perpetuals, Sports, and many chrono's in terms of value retention and interest. They are in a softer market for sure.

[Ichiran]

I'm not here to bash the AC because I have owned the 5146R and will be getting another AC by end of the year. I love the classy and elegant aesthetics of PP AC.

IMO, the only thing that works against it is the thickness (10+ to 11+mm), given that the simple date and PC are both 8+mm. I'm sure PP is able to package a slimmer movement for the AC if they want to.

[BobDyl]

I'm a big fan of Patek's traditional annual calendars. I don't see as much negativity on the forums as the OP has seen, but certainly the focus, for a while now, has been much more on the sport models, complicated or not...

[ap1]

I am a fan. 5205 is on the list but never seems to be the priority

[soundserious]

Controversial notion I’ve had for a long time: Patek should eliminate the AC. It creates a confusing tier of watches that really are neither fish nor fowl.

[WJGESQ]

Looks very nice.

[thomaspp]

Here’s the issue from my humble perspective:

Way too many are made and the catalog is riddled with variations of them. For the most part, they have generic movements and are usually paired with larger cases (as compared to their perpetual counterparts). The annual calendar complication detracts in some instances from watches that don’t need them (5235! Thinking of you). All of this contributes to low potential for long term collectibility and poor value retention although I guess they make fine everyday watches if that’s what you want in a watch.


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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by soundserious

Controversial notion I’ve had for a long time: Patek should eliminate the AC. It creates a confusing tier of watches that really are neither fish nor fowl.

Frankly speaking! Yes!! But they make money for the brand.... that desirable “mid-range” spot for brands but not great for collectors


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[benlee]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Here’s the issue from my humble perspective:

Way too many are made and the catalog is riddled with variations of them. For the most part, they have generic movements and are usually paired with larger cases (as compared to their perpetual counterparts). The annual calendar complication detracts in some instances from watches that don’t need them (5235! Thinking of you). All of this contributes to low potential for long term collectibility and poor value retention although I guess they make fine everyday watches if that’s what you want in a watch.


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Sorry, I disagree entirely.. Grand complications, complications, calatravas and even Nautilus also come in many variations so why just pick on AC? They serve a purpose in the product offerings of Patek.

Value retention generally speaking in PP range is only Nautilus and selected reference ( most of them discontinued like 5970s, 5070s ). Other than these, most of them don't really hold value well.

[JJ WA]

Originally Posted by benlee

Sorry, I disagree entirely.. Grand complications, complications, calatravas and even Nautilus also come in many variations so why just pick on AC? They serve a purpose in the product offerings of Patek.

Value retention generally speaking in PP range is only Nautilus and selected reference ( most of them discontinued like 5970s, 5070s ). Other than these, most of them don't really hold value well.

That is exactly my point, Ben. In value retention percentage, many grand complications and Calatravas lose as much as the ACs, if not more! This is the very point I am trying to understand from the community. Thanks for chiming in.

[JJ WA]

Originally Posted by thomaspp

Frankly speaking! Yes!! But they make money for the brand.... that desirable “mid-range” spot for brands but not great for collectors


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Do you still own the 5205R? If not, if I may ask, did you sell it because the market does not seem keen on ACs for now or because you didn’t like to wear it anymore?

[AK797]

I think the huge move towards sports models has hurt the ACs in particular as they are competing for the same money. Even the PCs are now under threat with the sporty 5740 issue, and PCCs seem to be in lower demand than before, so the shine is coming off most dressy pieces now, as it's a sportier, younger and SM driven world now.

[tom2517]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think the huge move towards sports models has hurt the ACs in particular as they are competing for the same money. Even the PCs are now under threat with the sporty 5740 issue, and PCCs seem to be in lower demand than before, so the shine is coming off most dressy pieces now, as it's a sportier, younger and SM driven world now.

I was in two ADs today to check out 5205R for another thread but both AD has the 5270R, and one AD has eight 5960.

My friend says nowadays dealer will not pay over 100k for a used 5270R.

[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by tom2517

I was in two ADs today to check out 5205R for another thread but both AD has the 5270R, and one AD has eight 5960.



My friend says nowadays dealer will not pay over 100k for a used 5270R.

8 5960s! Wow....


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[thomaspp]

Originally Posted by benlee

Sorry, I disagree entirely.. Grand complications, complications, calatravas and even Nautilus also come in many variations so why just pick on AC? They serve a purpose in the product offerings of Patek.



Value retention generally speaking in PP range is only Nautilus and selected reference ( most of them discontinued like 5970s, 5070s ). Other than these, most of them don't really hold value well.

We will agree to disagree Ben! I gave my honest feedback! Best


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[benlee]

Originally Posted by AK797

I think the huge move towards sports models has hurt the ACs in particular as they are competing for the same money. Even the PCs are now under threat with the sporty 5740 issue, and PCCs seem to be in lower demand than before, so the shine is coming off most dressy pieces now, as it's a sportier, younger and SM driven world now.

There seems to be many lying around, esp perpetual calendars and 5170s. AC has always been a stable of Patek watches. It used to be that 5205R esp black dial is not easy to find. I guess now the craze is all on sports watches.

[soundserious]

Why are the PCs hurt? Because they get lumped in with the ACs in buyers eyes.

Ironically Patek invented the AC.

[Vipes]

General trend that focuses on sports models and too many ACs are the reasons why these are soft right now. Also, there are too many versions of the 5205.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by benlee

There seems to be many lying around, esp perpetual calendars and 5170s. AC has always been a stable of Patek watches. It used to be that 5205R esp black dial is not easy to find. I guess now the craze is all on sports watches.

I remember when you got the 5205 and there was quite a bit of buzz about this watch and its cool art deco stylings and the piano black dial, but I can hardly remember any incomings here lately.

[SW1]

An AC is better value for money than a PC. The premium for a PC is seldom worth it but its a WIS complication

[AK797]

Just last year the 5726 was the ginger stepchild of the Nautilus range but in this new world even that is hard to come by.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by AK797

I remember when you got the 5205 and there was quite a bit of buzz about this watch and its cool art deco stylings and the piano black dial, but I can hardly remember any incomings here lately.

I still think it has the best dial design to tell the date with three logically arranged apertures. I will be very tempted if they release a PC version, in a thinner case.

[jon_jon]

Patek ACs are a great category of watches and there still is a market for them.

Over the past couple of years here on TRF, most of the threads have shifted in focus to sports watches and value retention. Thread topics are very differerent from 4-5 years ago. But then the forum contributors have changed quite a bit too.

On other watch forums, the topic of discounts and value retention is taboo or strictly forbidden, so there are more discussions about the watches themselves, including ACs, PC, Calatravas, etc.

[ap1]

Originally Posted by JJ WA

Do you still own the 5205R? If not, if I may ask, did you sell it because the market does not seem keen on ACs for now or because you didn’t like to wear it anymore?

I’d like to know too

[cascavel]

I love chronographs and use them quite a bit and I'd like to own a Patek chronograph but I've never understood the logic of pairing a chronograph with an AC (5960). The two functions seem to have no relationship to one another. Think of all the complaining you hear about how simple date windows ruin the dial purity of chronographs.

Additionally, the popularity of sport watches mirrors the ubiquity of track suits as casual wear. Here in NYC, if you are on Madison Ave. wearing jeans and a button down shirt, you are overdressed.

[gmstevenson]

Originally Posted by JJ WA

Do you still own the 5205R? If not, if I may ask, did you sell it because the market does not seem keen on ACs for now or because you didn’t like to wear it anymore?

I'm definitely guilty of this but with a 5146G. I should have just enjoyed the watch instead of worrying about market perception of the model and value retention. I miss that one now that its gone.

[tng11]

I am a fan of the annual calendars personally. I really like the 5205G and 5396G, and they are relative bargains to the sports pieces. I'd get either of those before getting a 5726.

That said, I also can't ignore that vintage 3940s aren't that much more expensive, and that the perpetual calendar is the real deal, granddaddy complication.