Found 2 Rolex watches at auction, not sure if they are real - help?

[Applebaum]

I found a Datejust and sub at an upcoming local auction - the pictures they provide are not high quality. I'm going to the open inspection days next week but was wondering if someone could help me identify the authenticity?

- For the DJ: I haven't seen that dial before on an old version of that watch + the dial says "T" but I don't see tritium markers.

For the sub: I'm not sure about the crown logo?

Hope you can help, thanks!

[Kostas]

There is a subsection called “watchout” where the experts hang out ;)

[Mephist]

I cannot see anything that looks fake to me. But I am fare from an expert on this field. Will be interesting to know what the real experts have to say

[bezler]

That DJ dial looks totally bizarre. On the white background, it looks like big lettering has bubbled up all over the face that reads ...ROLEXROLEX... Look above the 9 hour index, that's where it's most apparent to me.

Even assuming the watch has been through a natural disaster, Rolex couldn't possibly have made anything like that, could they? That's super ugly!

Hey I'm just a new guy, feel free to laugh at me if I'm being a fool.

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[MonBK]

Originally Posted by bezler

That DJ dial looks totally bizarre. On the white background, it looks like big lettering has bubbled up all over the face that reads ...ROLEXROLEX... Look above the 9 hour index, that's where it's most apparent to me.

Even assuming the watch has been through a natural disaster, Rolex couldn't possibly have made anything like that, could they? That's super ugly!

Hey I'm just a new guy, feel free to laugh at me if I'm being a fool.

Sent from my SM-J327P using Tapatalk

I am.

It's called a Jubilee dial and it's beautiful.

[bezler]

Originally Posted by MonBK

I am.

It's called a Jubilee dial and it's beautiful.

Oh my, that picture looks like massive water damage. It's actually real??

I guess I'll go back to looking at subs now and be quiet ....

[schoolboy]

Be careful OP.

A friend of mine bought a Longines watch at an estate sale, took it to a watchmaker for service, and it turned out that it was fake

[beshannon]

Both look very strange

[77T]

The Sub pic is so blurry that it raises concerns about the auction house.

It looks like a PCG case - but trying to figure out if the telltale signs of trouble are present on the dial is nearly impossible.

The DJ pic is marginally better. As Mon correctly said it’s a white jubilee dial and appears OK from that single pic.

What you need to do at inspection is check the bracelets for proper markings, end link types and clasp codes. See if they match up with serial number era. That’s one way to gain some confidence in originality.

Bring a loupe and really inspect the dials for correctness. If they have a watchmaker present, not a bad idea to have them remove the bracelet and check for proper engravings and validate s/n to any paperwork they are offering. And in some rare cases they might open the caseback for movement inspection. After all, who knows what’s inside?

Last thing is to secure their written policy regarding sales of replicas - if they have done their own homework they should be willing to stand behind the item for full refund if fake.

If you are bidding, just keep control over your pricing. Don’t forget to add the buyer’s premium when in the heat of the fray.

Good luck!


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[Chewbacca]

Not enough info but certainly enough to warrant a closer look.

The pics are terrible.

[Applebaum]

Originally Posted by Kostas

There is a subsection called “watchout” where the experts hang out ;)

thanks for moving it! did not know that

[Applebaum]

Originally Posted by 77T

The Sub pic is so blurry that it raises concerns about the auction house.

It looks like a PCG case - but trying to figure out if the telltale signs of trouble are present on the dial is nearly impossible.

The DJ pic is marginally better. As Mon correctly said it’s a white jubilee dial and appears OK from that single pic.

What you need to do at inspection is check the bracelets for proper markings, end link types and clasp codes. See if they match up with serial number era. That’s one way to gain some confidence in originality.

Bring a loupe and really inspect the dials for correctness. If they have a watchmaker present, not a bad idea to have them remove the bracelet and check for proper engravings and validate s/n to any paperwork they are offering. And in some rare cases they might open the caseback for movement inspection. After all, who knows what’s inside?

Last thing is to secure their written policy regarding sales of replicas - if they have done their own homework they should be willing to stand behind the item for full refund if fake.

If you are bidding, just keep control over your pricing. Don’t forget to add the buyer’s premium when in the heat of the fray.

Good luck!


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thanks so much for you tips! I'll definitely let you know how it turns out, will take pics too.

[crowncollection]

Need better pics to be definitive


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[Applebaum]

Will share more pics when I've visited the inspection days! thanks all for your replies :)

[Gtecko]

too many auction with fake Rolex these days ... there was another thread two days ago where (un)knowingly sold a Rolex ... even after they were made aware of it. they just in for the monaaaaaaaaaaaaaay

[GLADIATOR]

minute hand looks short on the Submariner?

[J_1964]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

minute hand looks short on the Submariner?

I think you may be right, but I'm not that good with the vintage references yet.

[zaydans]

That jubilee dial on the DJ doesn’t look right to me. I had an SS version with the same dial and the Rolex pattern was much more subtle. The dial pattern looks too prominent on this one.

[Applebaum]

Went to the inspection days and got more pics!

I also have more info

- Sub has serial 724XXXX, dating to 1982 + a 93150 bracelet (both period correct), weight felt good, it was working, had wat looked like genuine wear.
- DJ has serial 9200XXX, dating it 1986 with a 62523h18 bracelet, I think the hands have been changed? It was working with what looked like genuine wear (the cyclops had some scratches so it was difficult to inspect the magnification but it looked ok)

See image albums here:

Sub: https://imgur.com/a/EJMAmXE
DJ: https://imgur.com/a/c4BmhGE

One pic of each below:

[Chewbacca]

i Can’t say what it is, but I don’t like them.

Seem like some new, some old reproduction parts.

[Applebaum]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

minute hand looks short on the Submariner?

I posted new pics, I think it's good?

[Applebaum]

Originally Posted by Chewbacca

i Can’t say what it is, but I don’t like them.

Seem like some new, some old reproduction parts.

thanks for your reply! Could you elaborate a bit?

[freefly]

Both look fine (authentic) from here.
Sub is a matte-dial 16800 and the DJ is a Jubilee-dial (AKA computer-dial) 16013.

IMO, the scratched crystal cyclops on the DJ wouldn't be a huge concern.
However, the crown guards on the Sub are a bit thin for me, personally (especially the bottom one).
That said, I would probably still grab it if the price was right. YMMV...

[swt]

For what little it my be worth, to my eye, the degree of patination on the 16800 matte dial in the days before applied indies dial seems to be at odds with the patination of the pearl, considering that there's very limited wear or fading on the insert.

My opinion/observations are worth what you paid for same.

[GLADIATOR]

I am sure the Submariner is genuine, dial and hands looks good and correct to me for age.
Not sure if bezel is correct?

Datejust also looks all original and correct.

A

[GLADIATOR]

Editing my view on DATEJUST dial. In my opinion its reworked at best, and seems to have lost lumed dots

So Submariner dial, hands and case look genuine, but bezel has some concern
A

[MILGAUSS88]

Disclaimer, I have not seen very many Jubilee dials.

But that dial looks off to me, and could not find another example on Google with the minutes around the perimeter like that. For what it's worth.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Disclaimer, I have not seen very many Jubilee dials.

But that dial looks off to me, and could not find another example on Google with the minutes around the perimeter like that. For what it's worth.

[Applebaum]

Originally Posted by MILGAUSS88

Disclaimer, I have not seen very many Jubilee dials.

But that dial looks off to me, and could not find another example on Google with the minutes around the perimeter like that. For what it's worth.

Yeah it took me a while to find that dial:

With lumeplots: http://www.antiquewatchcoltd.com/pro...uctdetails/456

Without:
https://www.sandersonandson.com/51937.shtml & https://www.firstclassdials.com/role...er-tracks.html

The "T Swiss Made T" is different on all dials so not sure what to think. If the rest of the watch is original, would it be weird to put on another (original) dial? Value wise?

[Applebaum]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

Editing my view on DATEJUST dial. In my opinion its reworked at best, and seems to have lost lumed dots

So Submariner dial, hands and case look genuine, but bezel has some concern
A

thanks for you reply! Yeah I've looked at different examples of the 16800 ands some have a faded bezel insert and a similar pearl on the bezel, others have the same pearl but a similar bezel as the 16800 I found. I think I'm going to gamble on the 16800 :)

As for the DJ: See my reply above, I've found examples of that dial with and without the lume plots. My assumption would be that an original dial should have the lume plots. The rest of the watch looks/feels genuine so might gamble too - do you think it would hurt the value if I purchase an original dial and replace this one if it turns out to be wrong? Or am I making a frankenwatch then?