Shreve in San Francisco/ Palo Alto lost Patek status

[Danny83]

Originally Posted by anx21

Any opinions on Kerns vs CH Premier vs Tiffany? Assuming Kerns is the least likely to get shut down in the future due to the service center. Tiffany sounds impossible even for something like a Calatrava based on previous comments

Ch sells everything to HK

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Danny83

Ch sells everything to HK

is that a known fact or do you just assume this ? Because I heard whispers of similar stuff before

[newonos]

Maybe this was mentioned earlier but I notice Betteridge in Vail is no longer (still has PP in Aspen and CT) and Tiffanys in Honolulu is also no longer authorized. There's a newbie AD on the auth retailer list *I think* but don't trust my memory from three months ago so won't mention in case I'm wrong

[Apheaven]

I like all of the sales staff there. In my opinion, they were stuck in the impossible situation of attempting to fulfill existing clients needs while give new clients an opportunity, all the while with a very limited amount of product…thus not everyone is getting a watch or enough watches (for existing clients) hence there will be some unhappy folks left at the end of the day.


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[dchang81]

How long was the sealed policy a thing? I thought it was only a few years ago?

[dchang81]

What about govberg building out their FPJ....

[Apheaven]

Fourtane is generally easy to work with. That said, you may want to revisit this later in summer as the market correction will likely deepen and investor type people step away from buying from the AD as it will be an immediate loss should they purchase for resale. Opening the door for the true watch fans.


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[Jackflash]

This is why I maintain a buying history with two ADs in different cities . It also helps me get my hands on pieces a little faster. Interesting to see how I seem to fall out of favour with one, then the other, but never both at the same time. They’re sometimes a little annoyed I’m ‘cheating on them’ with the other but honestly the way they treat collectors it serves them right. I just don’t get the logic of being allocated a hot piece with virtually no wait, only then to be flatly refused to even being put on a waiting list for another piece the following year!

Currently my reliable AD refuses to even call me back, whereas the former ‘no room on the list for you’ AD has put me on a list. Madness!


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Jackflash

This is why I maintain a buying history with two ADs in different cities . It also helps me get my hands on pieces a little faster. Interesting to see how I seem to fall out of favour with one, then the other, but never both at the same time. They’re sometimes a little annoyed I’m ‘cheating on them’ with the other but honestly the way they treat collectors it serves them right. I just don’t get the logic of being allocated a hot piece with virtually no wait, only then to be flatly refused to even being put on a waiting list for another piece the following year!

Currently my reliable AD refuses to even call me back, whereas the former ‘no room on the list for you’ AD has put me on a list. Madness!


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

I’m guessing the answer is simple sometimes there are more important clients in front of you and I’m guessing it changes over time … it’s a business after all. May I ask how many years and number of pieces you bought of each AD ?


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[Jackflash]

Originally Posted by dauster

I’m guessing the answer is simple sometimes there are more important clients in front of you and I’m guessing it changes over time … it’s a business after all. May I ask how many years and number of pieces you bought of each AD ?


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About 10 years with each, and 6 pieces split 50:50


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

[newonos]

Originally Posted by Jackflash

This is why I maintain a buying history with two ADs in different cities . It also helps me get my hands on pieces a little faster. Interesting to see how I seem to fall out of favour with one, then the other, but never both at the same time. They’re sometimes a little annoyed I’m ‘cheating on them’ with the other but honestly the way they treat collectors it serves them right. I just don’t get the logic of being allocated a hot piece with virtually no wait, only then to be flatly refused to even being put on a waiting list for another piece the following year!

Currently my reliable AD refuses to even call me back, whereas the former ‘no room on the list for you’ AD has put me on a list. Madness!


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

Love it. Stick it to em' Jack Flash!

[fumanku]

The amount of entitlement if thread is astounding.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by fumanku

The amount of entitlement if thread is astounding.

welcome to the forum!!!

you mean spending hundreds of thousands or even millions and working on your relationship while being a fan & supporter of the brand and all of a sudden (with no fault of your own) the AD is cut off doesn't justify people being upset ?

[fumanku]

Sucks for many of us in the Bay Area that Shreve closed, but don’t think it’s fair to expect that any special treatment you previously were afforded would be transferred to a new relationship. As for why they were closed, of course only an unsubstantiated rumor at this point but let’s just say when asked to do a remodel, the answer should always be “with pleasure”.

[Jackflash]

Originally Posted by fumanku

The amount of entitlement if thread is astounding.

Never realised expecting an AD to call you back after you’ve dropped 6-figures counts as being entitled.


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by Jackflash

Never realised expecting an AD to call you back after you’ve dropped 6-figures counts as being entitled.

Analogy time: It is entitled to expect or demand a status match if your previous Airline/FFP of choice goes bankrupt. ”Do you know how much I’ve flown with X over the years?! DYKWIA??”

Whether one gets the match or not is completely at the whim of the Airline left standing. Hence it would be good with a due dose of humility.

[Jackflash]

Originally Posted by IBDOC

Analogy time: It is entitled to expect or demand a status match if your previous Airline/FFP of choice goes bankrupt. ”Do you know how much I’ve flown with X over the years?! DYKWIA??”

Whether one gets the match or not is completely at the whim of the Airline left standing. Hence it would be good with a due dose of humility.

Not sure the relevance of the analogy. I was simply stating my AD who is not bankrupt and whom I’ve been a repeat customer for 10 years now doesn’t even call me back


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

[fumanku]

Originally Posted by Jackflash

Not sure the relevance of the analogy. I was simply stating my AD who is not bankrupt and whom I’ve been a repeat customer for 10 years now doesn’t even call me back


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

I wasn't referring to you with my post. I was referring to those that expect/demand XYZ from new dealers they have never worked with.

All customers should be dealt with in a courteous manner, wether a frequent buyer or not. Courtesy however, is different from being allocated watches.

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by Jackflash

Not sure the relevance of the analogy. I was simply stating my AD who is not bankrupt and whom I’ve been a repeat customer for 10 years now doesn’t even call me back


Patek 5146G, Patek 5167A, Rolex Daytona 116500LN, Rolex GMT II 116710LN, Rolex Datejust 116200, Rolex Day-Date 228235, Grand Seiko SBGE011, Breitling Intruder Reveil

Fumanku that you cited was responding to sentiments relevant to the thread topic as was I. If you’re upset that your AD doesn’t call you back then make a separate thread about it?

[HMHM]

Wow! What made the legendary Eric Ku to appear on the forum all of a sudden?

[newonos]

Since service between AD and patron is placed at issue in this thread, I will add this:

Yes, spending money, being a source of profit is one way to curry favor. But also not being a dick will take you far. I sense that some folks with large wallets have been dicks and wonder why their money is not getting them further. Here's why.

AD has lots of people wanting service. Nice people and dicks. That won't change. Some patrons have big money to spend, and are dicks. And they don't know they're dicks. Others have big money to spend, and are nice and gracious. Who would you rather work with if you're an AD?

I'm in the service industry, and have all sorts of clients. We are always finding ourselves relishing, enjoying the relationships we have with nice people who pay their bills and have manners and grace. We WANT to serve them with excellence. We also find ourselves wanting--even trying--to shed high net worth clients who are difficult, rude, or unkind.

Want to have a good relationship with an AD? Ask him/her about him/herself. Acknowledge them, take a general interest, and above all be gracious. Do it genuinely and you'd be amazed how far that will take you.

[fumanku]

Originally Posted by newonos

Since service between AD and patron is placed at issue in this thread, I will add this:

Yes, spending money, being a source of profit is one way to curry favor. But also not being a dick will take you far. I sense that some folks with large wallets have been dicks and wonder why their money is not getting them further. Here's why.

AD has lots of people wanting service. Nice people and dicks. That won't change. Some patrons have big money to spend, and are dicks. And they don't know they're dicks. Others have big money to spend, and are nice and gracious. Who would you rather work with if you're an AD?

I'm in the service industry, and have all sorts of clients. We are always finding ourselves relishing, enjoying the relationships we have with nice people who pay their bills and have manners and grace. We WANT to serve them with excellence. We also find ourselves wanting--even trying--to shed high net worth clients who are difficult, rude, or unkind.

Want to have a good relationship with an AD? Ask him/her about him/herself. Acknowledge them, take a general interest, and above all be gracious. Do it genuinely and you'd be amazed how far that will take you.

Now this guy absolutely gets it. Couldn’t have said it better myself. Please dm me directly, sir. There is a green 5711 waiting for you. (Just kidding)

[dchang81]

Not sure how helpful being nice works in this market....or maybe I am a dick....

[Cloudchaser]

Michael's (SA) demeanor change back in Februrary was the first indication this was happening.

They KNEW this was happening since January but played dumb for as long as they could. The boutique was very clear after January that this is happening with all PP ADs as they move toward a 100% boutique business model. There will be no PP non-boutique sales in short order.

But the Shreve team even deflected direct questions all along.

[Arthur Daley]

Originally Posted by Cloudchaser

Michael's (SA) demeanor change back in Februrary was the first indication this was happening.

They KNEW this was happening since January but played dumb for as long as they could. The boutique was very clear after January that this is happening with all PP ADs as they move toward a 100% boutique business model. There will be no PP non-boutique sales in short order.

But the Shreve team even deflected direct questions all along.

Is this a prediction or rooted in some unique insight? Meaning, are you in possession of any first hand knowledge that Patek will go PP boutique and eliminate all ADs?

I ask because on the one hand I can understand it: greatly improve money being made by Patek by eliminating AD margin. Would very likely also drive prices up due to difficulty of acquisition- happened with FPJ.

On the other hand: PP have a fairly extensive and entrenched AD network with many loyal customers. Maybe that doesn't matter IF Patek has visibility into individual customer purchase history (which I think they do).

But sure - going direct would be extremely profitable for Patek, I'd imagine.

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[HMHM]

Originally Posted by Arthur Daley

Is this a prediction or rooted in some unique insight? Meaning, are you in possession of any first hand knowledge that Patek will go PP boutique and eliminate all ADs?

I ask because on the one hand I can understand it: greatly improve money being made by Patek by eliminating AD margin. Would very likely also drive prices up due to difficulty of acquisition- happened with FPJ.

On the other hand: PP have a fairly extensive and entrenched AD network with many loyal customers. Maybe that doesn't matter IF Patek has visibility into individual customer purchase history (which I think they do).

But sure - going direct would be extremely profitable for Patek, I'd imagine.

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If you see TS previous interviews, he has stated numerous times that PP will continue to engage with ADs to cater to their clients across the globe. They currently have no plans to go boutique only route like AP except for the 3 boutiques in Geneva, Paris and London. Future plans may change but that’s the current state. The main risk right now is who is Patek planning to cull in their AD line up. That is everyone’s greatest worry.

[indianmachine]

sometimes best to just enjoy the collection and not worry about where the next ones will come from

[rolexandlange]

I really don't think the Sterns care about the collectors with a handful of Pateks in a watchbox sitting in a safe at home in the Bay Area. Just look in general at the industry ignoring the Bay Area completely. I love watches but I've got too much going on to fly to LA or Vegas just for a watch. Patek might care about those with collections in bank vaults who support their auction prices. The brand wants to be worn by celebrities at sporting events or worn by footballers moreso than the guy who started his own business and made a few bucks to enjoy for himself with a handful of Pateks in San Francisco. If you weren't born with it and are below the level of punting around with the Arnauds (a la zachattach, "buying from Thierry since I was 12 years old!") and summering in villas at Lake Como, I don't think you're going to get much from Geneva. That's just my impression of the brand, in general, but to each their own. Maybe if you extensively whore out your collection on social media and have lots of followers they might care? Unclear. Sad times for Shreve losing Lange and Patek in 2022. If you're considering the alternative, I checked out the Patek closet at Tiffany's in San Francisco and Alex told me it's a 5-10 year wait any Patek watch from Tiffany's.

[IBDOC]

Originally Posted by rolexandlange

I really don't think the Sterns care about the collectors with a handful of Pateks in a watchbox sitting in a safe at home in the Bay Area. Just look in general at the industry ignoring the Bay Area completely. I love watches but I've got too much going on to fly to LA or Vegas just for a watch. Patek might care about those with collections in bank vaults who support their auction prices. The brand wants to be worn by celebrities at sporting events or worn by footballers moreso than the guy who started his own business and made a few bucks to enjoy for himself with a handful of Pateks in San Francisco. If you weren't born with it and are below the level of punting around with the Arnauds (a la zachattach, "buying from Thierry since I was 12 years old!") and summering in villas at Lake Como, I don't think you're going to get much from Geneva. That's just my impression of the brand, in general, but to each their own. Maybe if you extensively whore out your collection on social media and have lots of followers they might care? Unclear. Sad times for Shreve losing Lange and Patek in 2022. If you're considering the alternative, I checked out the Patek closet at Tiffany's in San Francisco and Alex told me it's a 5-10 year wait any Patek watch from Tiffany's.

It’s not just about having a list of clients they care about and the rest who they don’t. It’s about actually maintaining Veblen good status for their product, which is very difficult. If they would genuinely want to fulfil the wishes of all their Uber-collectors they wouldn’t be limiting rare handcraft dome clocks and pocket watches to piece uniques and Calatravas to 3-5 per model. Even massive collectors get (maybe) one of those assigned every few years even though many of them would gladly buy one or several of every single thing that leaves the factory.

Telling people with enough money to buy anything that they have to jump through hoops to get something has proven to be a good business model for PP. I’m assuming that they’re just continuing on that path.

At some point in every PP collector’s journey there will (if one’s as important to the AD as one assumes) be events and trips and contacts with the PP AD relation/client relation manager for one’s own region. I know for a fact that establishing a personal link with these can be very helpful if one’s AD gets cut off.

[1665fan]

Originally Posted by rolexandlange

I really don't think the Sterns care about the collectors with a handful of Pateks in a watchbox sitting in a safe at home in the Bay Area. Just look in general at the industry ignoring the Bay Area completely. I love watches but I've got too much going on to fly to LA or Vegas just for a watch. Patek might care about those with collections in bank vaults who support their auction prices. The brand wants to be worn by celebrities at sporting events or worn by footballers moreso than the guy who started his own business and made a few bucks to enjoy for himself with a handful of Pateks in San Francisco. If you weren't born with it and are below the level of punting around with the Arnauds (a la zachattach, "buying from Thierry since I was 12 years old!") and summering in villas at Lake Como, I don't think you're going to get much from Geneva. That's just my impression of the brand, in general, but to each their own. Maybe if you extensively whore out your collection on social media and have lots of followers they might care? Unclear. Sad times for Shreve losing Lange and Patek in 2022. If you're considering the alternative, I checked out the Patek closet at Tiffany's in San Francisco and Alex told me it's a 5-10 year wait any Patek watch from Tiffany's.

Gotta be a rapper to get the good AP these days……even worse