The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Vintage Rolex Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 3 January 2010, 10:28 AM   #61
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLS View Post
I also just read that thread, sorry to hear this Pav. So can you shed some light on why they call a Mayer Dial, I will admit that I do not know much about vintage Daytona's.
Scott
Here is a long post by John Mayer over there a couple of years ago..... He was adamantly trying to defend these dials. http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...N+ROC+DIALS%29
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 10:30 AM   #62
unclesallie
2019 Pledge Member
 
unclesallie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Real Name: dan
Location: Pennsylvania
Watch: keystone pocket
Posts: 5,883
Pav: I know I a guy who authenticates Daytonas(and other watches as well) in the Big Leagues. If you want send me an email with attachment, I'll print it out, and let's see what happens. Pulleth not the trigger yet. And BTW, that is a gorgeous watch, but believe me I do understand the issue.
PM sent.
unclesallie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 10:51 AM   #63
maverick
"TRF" Member
 
maverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: maverick
Location: Prescott
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damage Inc. View Post
Curious to know what the 'problems' were that the experts came up with. If the folks on VRF say so then it's most likely so...but curious all the same.
One glaring spot is the 5 marker on the bottom sub-dial. On a PN dial the 'lollypop' marker should be off center, yours is not. :-(
Also PN dials are know for the sloppy "T SWISS T". The number 5 on the left sub-dial sometimes looks like it is the wrong size.

Some claim a 3 color Daytona dial never left the factory. But yes they have brought good money at auctions. The last auction I looked at a questionable PN was withdrawn. Sorry to post this and good luck. =) maverick

Correct PN Dial Borrowed pic

__________________
Always fly first class even if you cannot go as far.............
If you have nothing to laugh about, laugh on credit.
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 10:59 AM   #64
SLS
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
SLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Real Name: Scott
Location: GMT -7
Watch: GMT's & Sub's
Posts: 10,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by onkyo View Post
Here is a long post by John Mayer over there a couple of years ago..... He was adamantly trying to defend these dials. http://www.network54.com/Forum/20759...N+ROC+DIALS%29
Just got done reading that thread...Thanks. Best of luck with this.
Scott
__________________
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower price is forgotten." -Benjamin Franklin

Member No. 922
SLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:13 AM   #65
unclesallie
2019 Pledge Member
 
unclesallie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Real Name: dan
Location: Pennsylvania
Watch: keystone pocket
Posts: 5,883
For the forum: I had a real expert look at Pav's pics. He says it 'looks good' but the dial must be removed from the watch and examined carefully before authenticity can be determined,with a number of subtle and complex factors to be determined, and PM sent to Pav.
unclesallie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:13 AM   #66
Lol-x
Facilitator
 
Lol-x's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Real Name: Steve
Location: Omnipresent
Posts: 30,797
Wow, you learn something new every day.

I hope it works out well for you Pav.
__________________

Most folks are about as happy as they make up their minds to be. ~Abraham Lincoln
Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride. ~John F. Kennedy

ROLEXploitation - yeah I'm a victim
Lol-x is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:18 AM   #67
DadsDaytona
"TRF" Member
 
DadsDaytona's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Real Name: Rob
Location: Georgia
Watch: 6262 PN Daytona
Posts: 82
No expert here but I was told in my PN 6262 post that taking a look at the lower register 5 O'Clock lollipop that the stick should not be in the center of the 5 O'Clock lollipop. It appears that the pictures show the 5 O'Clock lollipop is in the center of that lollipop? It looks to be centered?


I am sorry I had not refreshed and missed the post that stated the same info with a great picture.
DadsDaytona is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:35 AM   #68
Beaumont Miller II
"TRF" Member
 
Beaumont Miller II's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 2,609
PN dials

Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick View Post
One glaring spot is the 5 marker on the bottom sub-dial. On a PN dial the 'lollypop' marker should be off center, yours is not. :-(
Also PN dials are know for the sloppy "T SWISS T". The number 5 on the left sub-dial sometimes looks like it is the wrong size.

Some claim a 3 color Daytona dial never left the factory. But yes they have brought good money at auctions. The last auction I looked at a questionable PN was withdrawn. Sorry to post this and good luck. =) maverick

Correct PN Dial Borrowed pic

Maverick you are clearly educating me here. I have followed various PN threads in the past relating to this, and I thought the only 3 colored dials aka 3 CROC aka Texas dials aka Mayer dials in question were the ones for the 6263, 6265 ie the ones that have the screwed down pushers. Am I correct? If not go easy on me.
Beaumont Miller II is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:46 AM   #69
maverick
"TRF" Member
 
maverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: maverick
Location: Prescott
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLS View Post
Just got done reading that thread...Thanks. Best of luck with this.
Scott
Scott, O.E did another thread on these dials. He included some very interesting oddities of the PN dial, mainly the correct but weird looking variations of the "T SWISS T". It appears the nice neat ones on PNs are the bad ones, go figure.

What bothers me on these "Texas" dials is on the back. The Singer stamp looks very bad compared to ones I have seen in person. JMHO

But the debate continues and I hope all works out well. =) maverick
__________________
Always fly first class even if you cannot go as far.............
If you have nothing to laugh about, laugh on credit.
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:50 AM   #70
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II View Post
Maverick you are clearly educating me here. I have followed various PN threads in the past relating to this, and I thought the only 3 colored dials aka 3 CROC aka Texas dials aka Mayer dials in question were the ones for the 6263, 6265 ie the ones that have the screwed down pushers. Am I correct? If not go easy on me.
I though so also, so I thought I was safe since this was a 6239 with pushers.

But I have since learned that I was incorrect in that assumption.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 11:53 AM   #71
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick View Post
One glaring spot is the 5 marker on the bottom sub-dial. On a PN dial the 'lollypop' marker should be off center, yours is not. :-(
Also PN dials are know for the sloppy "T SWISS T". The number 5 on the left sub-dial sometimes looks like it is the wrong size.

Some claim a 3 color Daytona dial never left the factory. But yes they have brought good money at auctions. The last auction I looked at a questionable PN was withdrawn. Sorry to post this and good luck. =) maverick

Correct PN Dial Borrowed pic

Your comments are 100% correct Dennis...

I already contacted the seller and am meeting with him on Monday.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 12:24 PM   #72
maverick
"TRF" Member
 
maverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: maverick
Location: Prescott
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Beaumont Miller II View Post
Maverick you are clearly educating me here. I have followed various PN threads in the past relating to this, and I thought the only 3 colored dials aka 3 CROC aka Texas dials aka Mayer dials in question were the ones for the 6263, 6265 ie the ones that have the screwed down pushers. Am I correct? If not go easy on me.
Yes, I believe that is correct. It would nice to see a high def pic of just the dial.

Checking the back would be interesting to see how the Singer stamp appears but BE CAREFUL handling the dial and only let someone you trust with your life handle that dial. It only takes one slip an there goes a tritium dot. They just instantly turn to dust when touched.

The bottom line is that it is hard to prove they are not OK due to the fact the Rolex has serviced them and they have been sold in auctions for large sums. I know big collectors that still will buy them and some that prefer to stay away. =) maverick

On a different 'correct' PN dial which has sloppy "S" in the "SWISS' printing, another correct trait

__________________
Always fly first class even if you cannot go as far.............
If you have nothing to laugh about, laugh on credit.
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 12:56 PM   #73
Dan Pierce
2019 SKY-DWELLER Pledge Member
 
Dan Pierce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Real Name: D'OH!
Location: Kentucky
Watch: Rolex-1 Tudor-3
Posts: 30,585
Very sorry to hear this, Pav. Hope it all works out for you.
Best of luck,
dP
__________________
TRF Member# 1668
Bass Player in TRF "AFTER DARK" Bar & NightClub Band
Commander-in-Chief of The Nylon Nation
The Crown & Shield Club
Honorary Member of P-Club
Dan Pierce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 01:10 PM   #74
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Pierce View Post
Very sorry to hear this, Pav. Hope it all works out for you.
Best of luck,
dP
Thanks Dan..... you would not believe how nice this watch looks in real life.

Nonetheless, I am now convinced the dial is NOT Rolex.

I am glad I found out and contacted the seller within 3 days.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 01:12 PM   #75
SLS
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
SLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Real Name: Scott
Location: GMT -7
Watch: GMT's & Sub's
Posts: 10,379
Thanks Dennis/Pav. Very informational, sorry I had to learn it this way though.
Scott
__________________
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower price is forgotten." -Benjamin Franklin

Member No. 922
SLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 01:27 PM   #76
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLS View Post
Thanks Dennis/Pav. Very informational, sorry I had to learn it this way though.
Scott
Me too....

But all hope is not lost.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 01:44 PM   #77
mcjp6
"TRF" Member
 
mcjp6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Real Name: Michael
Location: VK2 - AUS
Watch: 5513s
Posts: 7,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by onkyo View Post
Nonetheless, I am now convinced the dial is NOT Rolex.

I am glad I found out and contacted the seller within 3 days.
Amazed to read of this Pav, as Steve said, one learns something new every day, I hope that you achieve the outcome that you are after, let us know how it goes....
mcjp6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 02:19 PM   #78
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjp6 View Post
Amazed to read of this Pav, as Steve said, one learns something new every day, I hope that you achieve the outcome that you are after, let us know how it goes....
Thank you Michael.... I hope the seller does the right thing.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 06:05 PM   #79
SLS
2019 DEEPSEA Pledge Member
 
SLS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Real Name: Scott
Location: GMT -7
Watch: GMT's & Sub's
Posts: 10,379
Quote:
Originally Posted by onkyo View Post
Thank you Michael.... I hope the seller does the right thing.
He had xxxx well better. But to pose a better question, what will the seller do with the watch after it is returned? To me, this guy is damaged goods and I would question everything he has sold or is selling. Sorry to be a spoil sport, but if you are playing with the big dogs, you can't pee like a puppy.
Scott
__________________
"The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of lower price is forgotten." -Benjamin Franklin

Member No. 922
SLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 3 January 2010, 06:43 PM   #80
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLS View Post
He had xxxx well better. But to pose a better question, what will the seller do with the watch after it is returned? To me, this guy is damaged goods and I would question everything he has sold or is selling. Sorry to be a spoil sport, but if you are playing with the big dogs, you can't pee like a puppy.
Scott
First, I bought this piece from a well known NYC vintage Rolex dealer who has been in the business for decades. There is a market for this dial/watch despite all the negative publicity from many collectors... people who don't care if it's not Rolex (unlike us). It's a really beautiful dial with a real vintage look and feel. Many legitimate collectors still buy and sell these dialed watches. And these watches are selling in auction houses for high dollar amounts.

The final verdict whether these are fake is still out, but the overwhelming evidence to date suggests they are not real.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 02:40 AM   #81
maverick
"TRF" Member
 
maverick's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Real Name: maverick
Location: Prescott
Watch: Rolex
Posts: 1,181
Quote:
Originally Posted by onkyo View Post
First, I bought this piece from a well known NYC vintage Rolex dealer who has been in the business for decades. There is a market for this dial/watch despite all the negative publicity from many collectors... people who don't care if it's not Rolex (unlike us). It's a really beautiful dial with a real vintage look and feel. Many legitimate collectors still buy and sell these dialed watches. And these watches are selling in auction houses for high dollar amounts.

The final verdict whether these are fake is still out, but the overwhelming evidence to date suggests they are not real.
PAV, I certainly hope you get satisfaction from this dealer. He probably will just re-sell the watch.

So sorry and hope this gets 100% straightened out to your satisfaction. =) maverick
__________________
Always fly first class even if you cannot go as far.............
If you have nothing to laugh about, laugh on credit.
maverick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 03:59 AM   #82
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverick View Post
PAV, I certainly hope you get satisfaction from this dealer. He probably will just re-sell the watch.

So sorry and hope this gets 100% straightened out to your satisfaction. =) maverick
If he takes it back, I guarantee he will resell this watch.

Thanks for you help Maverick.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 07:08 AM   #83
stevemulholland3
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Real Name: steven
Location: tampa bay
Watch: 1680 18k sub
Posts: 6,703
I just want to reiterate that the final word is still out on these dials and that most likely there will never be a difinitive word on them as some of the biggest players in the vintage Rolex market have bought and sold many of these watches(and it would be a nightmare if everyone tried to track down where they got them from and so on and so on,many people would go broke!)..while they are most likely a very good fake,there is also an insanely passionate group of collectors who search these dialed watches out and that therefore makes them a very valuable watch in their own right..
its just like a limited production piece of artwork,if there is only a finite amount of them then they are innately valuable as long as people wish to have one for their collection and there are only so many to be had..but I am just rehashing an old argument..if Pav decides to keep the piece-I still admire it for its beauty as do countless others..and if he doesnt,then thats his choice(as long as the seller is honorable which it sounds like he is)
so either way Pav,its a lovely watch!
stevemulholland3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 08:11 AM   #84
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevemulholland3 View Post
I just want to reiterate that the final word is still out on these dials and that most likely there will never be a difinitive word on them as some of the biggest players in the vintage Rolex market have bought and sold many of these watches(and it would be a nightmare if everyone tried to track down where they got them from and so on and so on,many people would go broke!)..while they are most likely a very good fake,there is also an insanely passionate group of collectors who search these dialed watches out and that therefore makes them a very valuable watch in their own right..
its just like a limited production piece of artwork,if there is only a finite amount of them then they are innately valuable as long as people wish to have one for their collection and there are only so many to be had..but I am just rehashing an old argument..if Pav decides to keep the piece-I still admire it for its beauty as do countless others..and if he doesnt,then thats his choice(as long as the seller is honorable which it sounds like he is)
so either way Pav,its a lovely watch!
Thanks for your input Steve and they are wise words as always.

To me the dial is tainted, tainting the entire watch despite it's beauty.

I absolutely can not keep this piece in my collection.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 05:21 PM   #85
Orchi
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malaysia
Posts: 2,958
Quote:
Originally Posted by onkyo View Post
Thanks for your input Steve and they are wise words as always.

To me the dial is tainted, tainting the entire watch despite it's beauty.

I absolutely can not keep this piece in my collection.
Err buddy Pav...Orchi supports your decisions...wholeheartedly.

Since Orchi was the 1st bugger(no regrets) to alert you on the JM Dial issue...
Orchi stands by the opinion that the Dial on the 6239...is FAKEEE...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve
..while they are most likely a very good fake,there is also an insanely passionate group of collectors who search these dialed watches out and that therefore makes them a very valuable watch in their own right..
its just like a limited production piece of artwork,if there is only a finite amount of them then they are innately valuable as long as people wish to have one for their collection and there are only so many to be had..but I am just rehashing an old argument..
Err buddy Steve...your comments may seem like a good sales speech...
BUT Orchi won't buy it...Sorry...
Orchi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 08:20 PM   #86
jdc
"TRF" Member
 
jdc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Real Name: Martin
Location: UK
Posts: 7,071
Good job you got it from a reputable dealer Pav. I must admit when I first saw it I thought it was controversial as it has been discussed on the VRF in the past. Glad it has worked out for you
jdc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 09:05 PM   #87
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orchi View Post
Err buddy Pav...Orchi supports your decisions...wholeheartedly.

Since Orchi was the 1st bugger(no regrets) to alert you on the JM Dial issue...
Orchi stands by the opinion that the Dial on the 6239...is FAKEEE...

Err buddy Steve...your comments may seem like a good sales speech...
BUT Orchi won't buy it...Sorry...
I can not thank you enough buddy orchi for contacting me. I was aware of Texas/John Mayer dials (having read the thread on VRF). I was under the impression (incorrectly) that these Texas dials were only on screw down models with 'ROC' dials (rolex/oyster/chrono) and mine had pushers and 'RO' dial, so I thought I was safe.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 4 January 2010, 09:07 PM   #88
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdc View Post
Good job you got it from a reputable dealer Pav. I must admit when I first saw it I thought it was controversial as it has been discussed on the VRF in the past. Glad it has worked out for you
Thanks Martin. I am meeting with the seller today.
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2010, 01:27 AM   #89
boa2
"TRF" Member
 
boa2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Real Name: Howard
Location: US
Watch: Me Now
Posts: 3,637
Sounds like this will work out for you, Pav. Good news!
__________________
"Facts and truth really don't have much to do with each other."
boa2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 5 January 2010, 01:29 AM   #90
onkyo
"TRF" Member
 
onkyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Real Name: Pav
Location: Manhattan
Posts: 11,526
Quote:
Originally Posted by boa2 View Post
Sounds like this will work out for you, Pav. Good news!
Hi Howard.... text message coming your way.....
onkyo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Banners Of The Month

Banners Of The Month
*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright 2004-2019, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.