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onkyo · 9 January 2010, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oztimelord

Pav,

On the 6263 I couldn't agree with you more

. It is this watch that made me fall in love with all the Daytonas. It also set me on a long journey to discover the history of this wonderful chronograph and what makes it such an icon.

Importantly I still learning everyday which makes vintage Rolex soo much more interesting than just buying an expensive new watch.

All the best.

Here is my 6263 Rene....

It brings a big smile to my face every time I put it on....

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Quote: "Ball park figure..... more than your double red."

Well, I'm glad to see you got your money back and all is well. Yeah, those PN Daytona's are expensive. I really liked the watch too. I just wish we could find out from Rolex if they produced it and get to the bottom of this.....once and for all.

From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!

CaveDiver · 9 January 2010, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onkyo

From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!

And it would not surprise me if Rolex serviced it back in the day.

Robbie · 9 January 2010, 11:36 PM

good catched sir...

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 03:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

And it would not surprise me if Rolex serviced it back in the day.

Yes, it was serviced not long ago......

DadsWatch72 · 10 January 2010, 04:07 AM

Quote: "From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!"

The thing that puzzles me is........how/why you didn't know the issues of this controversial watch before going into the deal? I would have researched the watch completely (considering the price) before actually handing over a huge sum of money like that. Perhaps your so wealthy, you can afford to throw money around easier than most? Perhaps it was a "spur of the moment" purchase and you trusted the seller completely without having done research on the watch? Again, it takes a certain "wealth" (or history with that person) in the first place to be able to trust someone with that amount of money. Or you could be a very impulsive person and you couldn't contain your desire for what you thought was an awsome PN Daytona in what appeared to be excellent condition? Again, only a person with ample sustenance could afford to be that "impulsive". Which leaves me with only one other possibility. You could be COMPLETELY CRAZY.

Dan Pierce · 10 January 2010, 04:20 AM

Pav has nothing to answer for me.
dP

cber7 · 10 January 2010, 04:27 AM

Wow "grail" for sure

CaveDiver · 10 January 2010, 05:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Quote: "From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!"

The thing that puzzles me is........how/why you didn't know the issues of this controversial watch before going into the deal? I would have researched the watch completely (considering the price) before actually handing over a huge sum of money like that. Perhaps your so wealthy, you can afford to throw money around easier than most? Perhaps it was a "spur of the moment" purchase and you trusted the seller completely without having done research on the watch? Again, it takes a certain "wealth" (or history with that person) in the first place to be able to trust someone with that amount of money. Or you could be a very impulsive person and you couldn't contain your desire for what you thought was an awsome PN Daytona in what appeared to be excellent condition? Again, only a person with ample sustenance could afford to be that "impulsive". Which leaves me with only one other possibility. You could be COMPLETELY CRAZY.

wow, what has gotten into you. This is just like the doc got ripped off response you made. If you read his posts you will find that he thought he did his homework. I don't think this has anything to do with wealth or lack of. Being snookered hurts no matter who you are. And BTW, you are very fortunate that Rolex serviced your watch.

maverick · 10 January 2010, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Quote: "From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!"

The thing that puzzles me is........how/why you didn't know the issues of this controversial watch before going into the deal? I would have researched the watch completely (considering the price) before actually handing over a huge sum of money like that. Perhaps your so wealthy, you can afford to throw money around easier than most? Perhaps it was a "spur of the moment" purchase and you trusted the seller completely without having done research on the watch? Again, it takes a certain "wealth" (or history with that person) in the first place to be able to trust someone with that amount of money. Or you could be a very impulsive person and you couldn't contain your desire for what you thought was an awsome PN Daytona in what appeared to be excellent condition? Again, only a person with ample sustenance could afford to be that "impulsive". Which leaves me with only one other possibility. You could be COMPLETELY CRAZY.

Much of the information posted in this thread was not common knowledge much more than a year ago with only top collectors and dealers sharing the info.

With the internet, collectors have found out tons for new info by sharing knowledge on forums like this one.

You have to realize these dials originally fooled Rolex who serviced many 'Texas" dialed watches.

You can see from the replies that many or most were originally convinced it was an authentic PN dial.

So I would go easy on the buyer, he learned a valuable lesson the hard way. =) maverick
PS and it all worked out well

Welshwatchman · 10 January 2010, 06:03 AM

I'm glad that I missed this thread until I could read the entire story, with it's satisfactory outcome and all.

What a ride, Pav !

We would have rounded up a TRF posse if the seller hadn't stood by his word.

therolexguy · 10 January 2010, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Quote: "From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!"

The thing that puzzles me is........how/why you didn't know the issues of this controversial watch before going into the deal? I would have researched the watch completely (considering the price) before actually handing over a huge sum of money like that. Perhaps your so wealthy, you can afford to throw money around easier than most? Perhaps it was a "spur of the moment" purchase and you trusted the seller completely without having done research on the watch? Again, it takes a certain "wealth" (or history with that person) in the first place to be able to trust someone with that amount of money. Or you could be a very impulsive person and you couldn't contain your desire for what you thought was an awsome PN Daytona in what appeared to be excellent condition? Again, only a person with ample sustenance could afford to be that "impulsive". Which leaves me with only one other possibility. You could be COMPLETELY CRAZY.

Sorry to say.

DadsWatch72 · 10 January 2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaveDiver

wow, what has gotten into you. This is just like the doc got ripped off response you made. If you read his posts you will find that he thought he did his homework. I don't think this has anything to do with wealth or lack of. Being snookered hurts no matter who you are. And BTW, you are very fortunate that Rolex serviced your watch.

I communicate with doctors in my line of work. They are smart cookies and I knew he would understand what I was saying. I actually private messaged him to make sure that he hadn't taken offense. He stated that he had understood the point that I was making and he never took offense by my comment. And yes, I understand how fortunate I was with my watch. You know what they say, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. They also say that the nail that stands out gets hammered too. Its a duality and a conundrum.

There is also an old saying in medical school. When your evaluating a patient, you look for horses before you look for zebras.

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Quote: "From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!"

The thing that puzzles me is........how/why you didn't know the issues of this controversial watch before going into the deal? I would have researched the watch completely (considering the price) before actually handing over a huge sum of money like that. Perhaps your so wealthy, you can afford to throw money around easier than most? Perhaps it was a "spur of the moment" purchase and you trusted the seller completely without having done research on the watch? Again, it takes a certain "wealth" (or history with that person) in the first place to be able to trust someone with that amount of money. Or you could be a very impulsive person and you couldn't contain your desire for what you thought was an awsome PN Daytona in what appeared to be excellent condition? Again, only a person with ample sustenance could afford to be that "impulsive". Which leaves me with only one other possibility. You could be COMPLETELY CRAZY.

DW, thank you for expressing interest in how I spend my discretionary money. Fortunately, if I needed this money for food, water, shelter, clothes, etc I would not be collecting vintage Rolex watches. Am I rich, middle class, upper middle class... it's none of your business. What I will say is that I was never given anything and have earned every penny I have. My dad never gave me an valuable watch.

Clearly, I made a mistake buying this piece. I am the first one to admit it. BUT I am NOT a vintage Rolex expect, nor will I EVER be. I have a full time job which keeps me busy and collecting watches is a hobby. Was I aware of 'Texas' dialed PN watches... yes, I actually knew quite a bit about how to identify them, but I did not believe this was one of them until later. As I stated previously, I was believed these 'Texas' dials were on screw down PN references with 'ROC' dials.

One thing I always do is buy from reliable sources where a return is possible if the watch is not 'good'. To me it's worth the extra cash. So when a problem arose I was confident that the seller would make good and accept a return (which he did). To the dealer it is not worth ruining a reputation that has been built over decades of buying and selling vintage watches. And the dealer was fooled as well... He is now returning the watch from where he acquired it!

DW, why don't you try googling 'Paul Newman Daytona Texas Dial' and see what you find.... I did. You find little to nothing. There is almost no information online or in texts about these dials. Some still believe they are real and there is definitively a market for them. John Mayer collects these dials/watches and openly stated on VRF that he would buy these watches even quoting a price he would pay.

So DW there is plently of information you are not aware of and your post was foolish to say the least ......

Quote:

Originally Posted by maverick

Much of the information posted in this thread was not common knowledge much more than a year ago with only top collectors and dealers sharing the info.

With the internet, collectors have found out tons for new info by sharing knowledge on forums like this one.

You have to realize these dials originally fooled Rolex who serviced many 'Texas" dialed watches.

You can see from the replies that many or most were originally convinced it was an authentic PN dial.

So I would go easy on the buyer, he learned a valuable lesson the hard way. =) maverick
PS and it all worked out well

Maverick, thank you for the support (though not needed after the foolish post above) and I look at this as a lesson learned .... though really not the hard way as it could have ended worse.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welshwatchman

I'm glad that I missed this thread until I could read the entire story, with it's satisfactory outcome and all.

What a ride, Pav !

We would have rounded up a TRF posse if the seller hadn't stood by his word.

Thank you Paul.... this was certainly an interesting ride. Now time to move on and find a real PN Daytona.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

Pav has nothing to answer for me.
dP

Thank you my friend...

Quote:

Originally Posted by therolexguy

Sorry to say.

Some people think then post, some just post.

kyle L · 10 January 2010, 11:21 AM

Well I'm glad it worked out for you Pav. I was hoping the guy at my music school with the 1655 was you though.

You have to bring the 6263 to the GTG!

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle L

Well I'm glad it worked out for you Pav. I was hoping the guy at my music school with the 1655 was you though.

You have to bring the 6263 to the GTG!

6263 it is ....

DadsWatch72 · 10 January 2010, 12:01 PM

Quote: BUT I am NOT a vintage Rolex expect, nor will I EVER be."

I have read many/most of your posts and have learned much from you and your knowledge. From my perspective, you ARE an expert in these watches. Thats why it puzzled me how you bought it. For you to even go into the deal, I would have thought you were absolutely sure. It makes me think that if you can be fooled (and I hold your opinion/knowledge in high regard) that I could be very easily fooled then. Like you said, there is little information on these watches. The little there is, is surrounded by controversy. I was just trying to make sense of how it could happen to "ONKYO" of all people (since I consider you an expert). Also, your a guy that has rolled up his sleeves and earned everything you have, thats awsome. I am the same way. I earn everything I have also (minus my late fathers watch). I'm very glad that you received your money back for the watch. It appears that the trust in the sellers integrity was well spent.

The only thing I was saying about the money was, maybe your like Donald Trump rich and don't worry about risk. Hey, thats cool too.

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

Quote: BUT I am NOT a vintage Rolex expect, nor will I EVER be."

I have read many/most of your posts and have learned much from you and your knowledge. From my perspective, you ARE an expert in these watches. Thats why it puzzled me how you bought it. For you to even go into the deal, I would have thought you were absolutely sure. It makes me think that if you can be fooled (and I hold your opinion/knowledge in high regard) that I could be very easily fooled then. Like you said, there is little information on these watches. The little there is, is surrounded by controversy. I was just trying to make sense of how it could happen to "ONKYO" of all people (since I consider you an expert). Also, your a guy that has rolled up his sleeves and earned everything you have, thats awsome. I am the same way. I earn everything I have also (minus my late fathers watch). I'm very glad that you received your money back for the watch. It appears that the trust in the sellers integrity was well spent.

The only thing I was saying about the money was, maybe your like Donald Trump rich and don't worry about risk. Hey, thats cool too.

Please do not hold me up to 'expert' status. I consider myself a 'learner' in the vintage world. Watches are a hobby of mine. I have no kids, no mansion on the hill, no butler, so I have to spend money on something... why not do it on something I love.

Let me tell you, I wish I was Donald Trump and could spend that kind of cash freely. It was a spur of the moment deal and meant to be my grail of 2010!

kyle L · 10 January 2010, 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onkyo

Please do not hold me up to 'expert' status. I consider myself a 'learner' in the vintage world. Watches are a hobby of mine. I have no kids, no mansion on the hill, no butler, so I have to spend money on something... why not do it on something I love.

Let me tell you, I wish I was Donald Trump and could spend that kind of cash freely. It was a spur of the moment deal and meant to be my grail of 2010!

Well, now you have the opportunity to get a new grail!

How bout one of these?

Speed · 10 January 2010, 12:35 PM

Well onward Pav...

I ALWAYS look forward to your posts & pics and wonder what will go next into that cool black watch box of yours!

For Grail quest suggestions...

What about the Peruvian Rolex Daytona Chronograph:
http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2009/3/...ternative.html

or...the Polizia Di Stato Sea Dweller!

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2009/11...uve-final.html

DadsWatch72 · 10 January 2010, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onkyo

Please do not hold me up to 'expert' status. I consider myself a 'learner' in the vintage world. Watches are a hobby of mine. I have no kids, no mansion on the hill, no butler, so I have to spend money on something... why not do it on something I love.

Let me tell you, I wish I was Donald Trump and could spend that kind of cash freely. It was a spur of the moment deal and meant to be my grail of 2010!

I see your from NY (just like Trump

) and I have heard that a little hole in the wall apartment that looks like

goes for a million buck or so. I guess I figure that anyone who buys PN Daytona's living in NYC has got to be loaded.

Anyway, I am a member of the OBNDB (Orginazation of the Brotherhood of its Non of my Damn Business).

And don't sell yourself short, you know a lot about these watches. I read these threads very carefully. From my perspective your way out front.

Sorry you didn't get your grail but I have a feeling you will. Besides, you already have a DRSD. Wear it for a while, that should cheer you up.

DadsWatch72 · 10 January 2010, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle L

Well, now you have the opportunity to get a new grail!

How bout one of these?

That is an amazing watch IMO. Wow. Does the bezel not have a lume dot? I never noticed that before. What model is that exactly. Is that a Big Crown? Is that a 007 watch?

Is that pre-007?

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle L

Well, now you have the opportunity to get a new grail!

How bout one of these?

Nice watch Kyle... 6202 I believe is the ref. Now go find me one Kyle!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed

Well onward Pav...

I ALWAYS look forward to your posts & pics and wonder what will go next into that cool black watch box of yours!

For Grail quest suggestions...

What about the Peruvian Rolex Daytona Chronograph:
http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2009/3/...ternative.html

or...the Polizia Di Stato Sea Dweller!

http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2009/11...uve-final.html

Great ideas Bill and I would love either one! But who has these pieces???

Quote:

Originally Posted by DadsWatch72

I see your from NY (just like Trump

) and I have heard that a little hole in the wall apartment that looks like

goes for a million buck or so. I guess I figure that anyone who buys PN Daytona's living in NYC has got to be loaded.

Anyway, I am a member of the OBNDB (Orginazation of the Brotherhood of its Non of my Damn Business).

And don't sell yourself short, you know a lot about these watches. I read these threads very carefully. From my perspective your way out front.

Sorry you didn't get your grail but I have a feeling you will. Besides, you already have a DRSD. Wear it for a while, that should cheer you up.

My DRSD and 6263 will certainly hold me for a little while until that itch comes back .... and it always come back.

kyle L · 10 January 2010, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onkyo

Nice watch Kyle... 6202 I believe is the ref. Now go find me one Kyle!

There is a guy on Bowery street (88A) who has a bunch of vintage Rolexes and many other watches. You may want to go check him out:

alltiques.com

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle L

There is a guy on Bowery street (88A) who has a bunch of vintage Rolexes and many other watches. You may want to go check him out:

alltiques.com

I was just on Bowery last week meeting a friend. I should have stop by there. Let me know if they have anything interesting if you are in the area.

Actually, there are 2 6202 on ebay right now.

The bezels are really cool on these pieces... reminds me of milsubs.

kyle L · 10 January 2010, 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onkyo

I was just on Bowery last week meeting a friend. I should have stop by there. Let me know if they have anything interesting if you are in the area.

Actually, there are 2 6202 on ebay right now.

The bezels are really cool on these pieces... reminds me of milsubs.

My local watchmaker is on Bowery, so I go there weekly. I'll check if he has anything of interest at alltiques. Anything you're looking out for? I might go tomorrow.

Speed · 10 January 2010, 01:23 PM

Pav,

You need to contact the "Watch Guru" Tom Bolt and see if he can locate one for you.

http://www.thewatchguru.co.uk/

He was featured in this awesome on line documentary about Watches / WIS's...check it out when you can:

http://www.theluxurychannel.tv/timeMachines.aspx

onkyo · 10 January 2010, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kyle L

My local watchmaker is on Bowery, so I go there weekly. I'll check if he has anything of interest at alltiques. Anything you're looking out for? I might go tomorrow.

Anything I don't already have....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speed

Pav,

You need to contact the "Watch Guru" Tom Bolt and see if he can locate one for you.

http://www.thewatchguru.co.uk/

He was featured in this awesome on line documentary about Watches / WIS's...check it out when you can:

http://www.theluxurychannel.tv/timeMachines.aspx

Thanks for the link Bill... I will check him out.

kyle L · 10 January 2010, 01:26 PM

Oh my god...

kyle L · 10 January 2010, 01:29 PM

[QUOTE=onkyo;1558779]Anything I don't already have....

/QUOTE]

Ok Pav, please give me $5000 as commission for finding you your next watch.

It's on his site.

DadsWatch72 · 10 January 2010, 01:37 PM

Here are a few Daytona's to help in your search.

10 January 2010, 04:20 AM	#126
Dan Pierce 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Real Name: D'OH! Location: Kentucky Watch: Rolex-1 Tudor-3 Posts: 35,731	Pav has nothing to answer for me. dP __________________ TRF Member# 1668 Bass Player in TRF "AFTER DARK" Bar & NightClub Band Commander-in-Chief of The Nylon Nation The Crown & Shield Club Honorary Member of P-Club

10 January 2010, 04:27 AM	#127
cber7 "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Cori Location: WA Watch: 1680 Red Sub Posts: 56	Wow "grail" for sure __________________ Cori Bellevue, WA Rolex 1680 Red Panerai 177 Titanium

10 January 2010, 06:03 AM	#130
Welshwatchman "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Real Name: Paul Location: Wales, UK Posts: 14,578	I'm glad that I missed this thread until I could read the entire story, with it's satisfactory outcome and all. What a ride, Pav ! We would have rounded up a TRF posse if the seller hadn't stood by his word. __________________ ..33

9 January 2010, 11:36 PM	#123
Robbie Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Indonesia Watch: 14000m, 6694, 6518 Posts: 29	good catched sir...

10 January 2010, 04:07 AM	#125
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	Quote: "From what I was told by the deal, Rolex USA and Rolex Geneva confirmed the dial was fake!" The thing that puzzles me is........how/why you didn't know the issues of this controversial watch before going into the deal? I would have researched the watch completely (considering the price) before actually handing over a huge sum of money like that. Perhaps your so wealthy, you can afford to throw money around easier than most? Perhaps it was a "spur of the moment" purchase and you trusted the seller completely without having done research on the watch? Again, it takes a certain "wealth" (or history with that person) in the first place to be able to trust someone with that amount of money. Or you could be a very impulsive person and you couldn't contain your desire for what you thought was an awsome PN Daytona in what appeared to be excellent condition? Again, only a person with ample sustenance could afford to be that "impulsive". Which leaves me with only one other possibility. You could be COMPLETELY CRAZY.

10 January 2010, 11:21 AM	#134
kyle L "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Watch: Rolex Explorer I Posts: 10,278	Well I'm glad it worked out for you Pav. I was hoping the guy at my music school with the 1655 was you though. You have to bring the 6263 to the GTG!

10 January 2010, 12:01 PM	#136
DadsWatch72 Banned Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: USA Watch: DRSD 1665 #3551XXX Posts: 2,401	Quote: BUT I am NOT a vintage Rolex expect, nor will I EVER be." I have read many/most of your posts and have learned much from you and your knowledge. From my perspective, you ARE an expert in these watches. Thats why it puzzled me how you bought it. For you to even go into the deal, I would have thought you were absolutely sure. It makes me think that if you can be fooled (and I hold your opinion/knowledge in high regard) that I could be very easily fooled then. Like you said, there is little information on these watches. The little there is, is surrounded by controversy. I was just trying to make sense of how it could happen to "ONKYO" of all people (since I consider you an expert). Also, your a guy that has rolled up his sleeves and earned everything you have, thats awsome. I am the same way. I earn everything I have also (minus my late fathers watch). I'm very glad that you received your money back for the watch. It appears that the trust in the sellers integrity was well spent. The only thing I was saying about the money was, maybe your like Donald Trump rich and don't worry about risk. Hey, thats cool too.

10 January 2010, 12:35 PM	#139
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,695	Well onward Pav... I ALWAYS look forward to your posts & pics and wonder what will go next into that cool black watch box of yours! For Grail quest suggestions... What about the Peruvian Rolex Daytona Chronograph: http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2009/3/...ternative.html or...the Polizia Di Stato Sea Dweller! http://www.hodinkee.com/blog/2009/11...uve-final.html

10 January 2010, 01:23 PM	#146
Speed "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: USA Posts: 19,695	Pav, You need to contact the "Watch Guru" Tom Bolt and see if he can locate one for you. http://www.thewatchguru.co.uk/ He was featured in this awesome on line documentary about Watches / WIS's...check it out when you can: http://www.theluxurychannel.tv/timeMachines.aspx

10 January 2010, 01:26 PM	#148
kyle L "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Watch: Rolex Explorer I Posts: 10,278	Oh my god...

10 January 2010, 01:29 PM	#149
kyle L "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: USA Watch: Rolex Explorer I Posts: 10,278	[QUOTE=onkyo;1558779]Anything I don't already have.... /QUOTE] Ok Pav, please give me $5000 as commission for finding you your next watch. It's on his site.

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