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Old 17 July 2009, 01:41 AM   #1
DadsWatch72
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Nightmare 1665

I have a Double Red Rolex 1665 that was my fathers. I had it serviced in 1995 in Dallas 2 years after my father passed away. It came back looking new. They wanted to change out the band but I couldn't afford it so they sent it back with the watch unchanged but polished. I thought about keeping it in the box when it came back but thought to myself.....eh, its a watch meant to be worn so I have worn it as an everyday watch since. I always thought it was worth about $1500 bucks. Well, I lost the bezel while out on a motorcross track a couple of years ago and intended to "bite the bullet" and send it back in to Rolex Service to be fitted with a new bezel and be re-oiled ect... Since I have been recently looking into having this done it has been bittersweet. Apparently the watch turned out to be the "Holy Grail" of watches and nobody wants to help me. I am sick and tired of this watch now. Its all original including the band minus the replaced crystal in 95 (I guess the original crystal is more dome shaped?). It seems to me that the bezel should be a pretty standard bezel put on many other watches/models. And BTW when I say bezel I do realize its a few parts put together. So much hastle over a watch is unbelievable. I'm glad that it has appreciated in value but it has made keeping my Dads watch in good working order by the people that should be the only ones working on it (namely Rolex Service) a nightmare. I also understand that parts aren't made forever and this might be a problem for even Rolex but the watch is still ticking nicely and a bezel should be a common part I would think. The company doesn't want other repair shops to have parts, fine with me (maybe not for many of you). Then let me buy the parts from you (Rolex) and service me then. And if there is a demand for parts for certain models, I am sure Rolex can reproduce a little gear to exact specs. to keep their beautiful watches humming. After all, they are Rolex. As for cases and dials it may be another story. I don't expect them to reproduce the entire watch. Gotta draw the line somewhere I suppose. I had planned on giving the watch to my son after my departure as I received it from my father but now I "almost" want to just get rid of it and buy a new one to give him. It wouldn't be the same though. The watch has a story behind it and that would be lost. I guess I just wanted to share my experience with those who would listen and understand.
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Old 17 July 2009, 10:51 AM   #2
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Welcome

The bezel is relatively easy to find on the secondhand market. SteveMulholland probably has them.

Why don't you post a photo of your watch, so we can see it for ourselves sans bezel.

Good idea to keep it in the family, you can't sell anything on this forum anyway until you properly qualify to do so, and anyone would be ill advised to buy from you under the present circumstances anyway.
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Old 17 July 2009, 10:56 AM   #3
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Welcome to the Forum!

That watch wil be worth a lot more when your son grows up and teach him the significance of it! If you can hang on to it for a few more years, you can make more money and help him out with college or who knows!

I am very happy for you!
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Old 17 July 2009, 11:55 AM   #4
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He is in college now and he has been told the storys of the watch and how my father came by it in 1977 when he was empoyed by Ray McDermott Oil Company in the United Arab Emirates (UAE Dubai). And he is seeing how difficult this whole ordeal is turning out to be. I can't guarantee he won't sell it a day after I'm pushin up daisys but I hope if he does sell it he really needs the cash for more than taking a trip to Hawaii. I guess I will tell you guys (and gals) the story. As you know we were in the UAE in 77. My father, mother, sister, and I were in Dubai for about 6 months. Dad was a computer programmer (IMB man) and made a ton of money in a short time since those arabs paid very well. Anyway, the company had a country club known as the "Guest House" and thats where we were most of the time. It had a bar which was the only place to drink in a Muslim country. The Brits, Scotts, and Americans were the majority who used the facility. I was 10 and used the pool everyday. On the weekends it got pretty crazy at times. Throw in Texas oil men, British and French divers, and Scottish to boot and your gonna have some wild times. One weekend 2 texans got into a fight where one bit off the others thumb. I personally saw it bandaged the next day and remember the two of them totally ok with one and other. Crazy. Now my dad was a "man of thirst" to begin with so he got along really well with a British diver named Dennis Berry. One night of drinking Dennis turns to my dad and gives him this watch. My father didn't know what a Rolex watch really was at the time and told him he had nothing to give him in return. Dennis told his to give him is handkerchief and to put his signature on it. And so he did. My mother was sitting with them and I personally think he was trying to impress my mom and probably admired her a bit. Either way he told my dad he had a few of them and to take it. He wore that watch until he died in 93'. My mother offered it to me and told me to "take care of it, its a mans watch". And so I have. I had it serviced in 95' and have worn it as an everyday watch...untill I found out how darn expensive it is a couple of weeks ago. Now it sits in the box that was sent back to me from Dallas service center. I appreciate the advice about the bezel. I still want to try some more official Rolex channels even if its in Canada or Europe. There has to be somebody somewhere with a new one sitting in their inventory. I'm a Laboratory Technician by profession and tenacious when I have a task to perform so I won't give up easily with my search. Moving on.....I tried to take some pictures of the watch for all of you out there but they didn't come out very good. I have a Fuji Film A200 so they aren't like most of the pics I see here. Anyway he it is.
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Old 17 July 2009, 12:54 PM   #5
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I would send the watch to Dalton Toledo in LA for a case refinish, bezel and insert install (parts form Steve Mulholland) and let him service it. Your investment would be a few hundred dollars for a watch that is worth a fortune. I am so jealous.

Don't let anyone change the Hands,Dial or datewheel.
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Old 17 July 2009, 12:56 PM   #6
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Thanks for the photographs. It looks like a really nice watch, and from the looks of it with a little effort, would be as good as new.

A very collectable Rolex, and if you have the original documentation so much the better.

There are watchmakers who specialise in servicing and restoring these Vintage Rolex watches. Such names as Bob Ridley and Dalton come to mind.

I don't think too much needs to be done to your watch at all and certainly nothing that would or should motivate you to want to sell it.

It has a folded bracelet, and a solid steel bracelet may be more practical if the watch was to be worn on a day to day basis.

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Old 17 July 2009, 01:21 PM   #7
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Paperwork

I have the paperwork from the Dallas service center. Its a one year warranty with the reference #, serial #, and date of service. And most importantly, my name at the top. I also have the little factory service booklet and winding instructions sign that looks like a minature "Do Not Disturb" sign. That way my son won't have a problem selling it.
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Old 17 July 2009, 01:25 PM   #8
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Question

If you could have Rolex service it instead of those people you mentioned, would you? I mean wouldn't Rolex service be better than taking it to someone else? Also, you mentioned a solid band would be better for regular wear. The original band is in really bad shape but I don't think its available anywhere. I don't think I showed it in the pictures I posted but the band has a hole in a link that was put there by Dennis Berry. He said it was for a Saint Christopher pendant who is the patron of safe travelers I think. For safe diving I guess. Should I have someone repair the band and replace that link? I think a few parts might need replacing on the band. Is it worth keeping or should I just get rid of it and replace it with a solid one like you mentioned.

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Old 17 July 2009, 02:42 PM   #9
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I prefer independant watchmakers.

Rolex wants to control what goes on the watch and will keep old parts, like the old bracelet.

Me? I would replace the bracelet with the solid version and put the original up for posterity. The hole is a part of the watches history. The original has value on it's own.

Maybe write down all you know about the watch and put it with the paperwork and bracelet.

I assume you're going to wear the watch.
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Old 17 July 2009, 03:11 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadsWatch72 View Post
If you could have Rolex service it instead of those people you mentioned, would you? I mean wouldn't Rolex service be better than taking it to someone else? Also, you mentioned a solid band would be better for regular wear. The original band is in really bad shape but I don't think its available anywhere. I don't think I showed it in the pictures I posted but the band has a hole in a link that was put there by Dennis Berry. He said it was for a Saint Christopher pendant who is the patron of safe travelers I think. For safe diving I guess. Should I have someone repair the band and replace that link? I think a few parts might need replacing on the band. Is it worth keeping or should I just get rid of it and replace it with a solid one like you mentioned.
Rolex USA won't touch that watch... it's too old.

In terms of the band .... it has a 9315 folded link bracelet. You can still find them used in good condition. I would look around for one to keep it vintage correct.

A great watch.

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Old 17 July 2009, 06:09 PM   #11
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I would not send it to Rolex for risk of them replacing the hands or dial or bracelet and reducing the value by literally thousands of dollars.


I would get Dalton to refinish your current bracelet and then put it aside and get a 93150 from Steve and wear on it. Although it can take it, I would invest the money in making it perfect and keep it as an investment and not a daily wear watch. You can get an Omega or other Rolex for that.
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Old 17 July 2009, 06:55 PM   #12
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If it was a new watch I would send it to Rolex however Rolex USA will not service it as it is too old (as others have said). You are flogging a dead horse trying to get a Rolex service. Rolex UK may service it but you run the risk of them changing things you don't want changed which would dramatically alter the value to a collector. You would also have the hassle of sending overseas.

The reason Dalton and Bo Ridley are mentioned throughout this thread is that they will keep the Rolex as close to the original as possible and they are highly recommended here by experts on TRF and with the Rolex vintage community.

I strongly recommend you at least have a chat with them.
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Old 17 July 2009, 11:21 PM   #13
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Nice Rolex,

It's been around for a while so a few more months wont harm it. Take your time, make the correct decision about it's future.
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Old 18 July 2009, 02:48 AM   #14
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Good advice

Yes JDC, I have already been told by Rolex Canada that it might be sticky sending the watch to them but I was thinking I could take it to them in person and bypass the problem with customs. I think they said they are in the Toronto area. And LowFlight, I do like the idea of getting an Omega. I am a "wanna be astronaut and would love to get a watch model that was on the moon. Almost 40 years since we landed there this month. And pz93c, I would like to continue to wear it as I always have but if I can get it serviced considering all the trouble I am running into I will just leave it in a box most of the time unless I am wearing a suit (what lowflight suggested). Keeping it orginal is my goal so maybe I will try to find "an" original band in good condition and have "thee" original band referbished by Dalton Toledo perhaps. Having the watch itself taken care of is my first priority and the band is secondary. If someone does have the bezel then I need to find it before the part becomes so rare it would be a joke to try and find it. When the watch is finally done then I will focus on the band. One of my concerns is something a jeweler told me once. He said that dissimilar metals can cause Galvanic corrosion. If I take the band to someone and they replace links with dissimilar metals from aftermarket bands, how would I know until its too late and it has corroded. Maybe I would never know they aren't original links. I have been reading a posting on this forum about a jubilee band problem that thom had. Again Daltons name popped up so I will probably contact him. I will probably contact Bo Ridley about the case and Steve Mulholland for the bezel itself, if all else fails with Rolex. I still haven't given up on that. I probably shouldn't waste my time but I do have the utmost respect for them. I am a bit concerned they might keeps parts or change out parts that make it vintage. Is my band 904L metal? The new Deep Sea boasts a solid 904L steel band. I am really impressed with that watch. I would love to sit in the dark and gaze at the blue glowing dial. Here are some more pics of the band with the hole. You can also see some bent links.
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Old 18 July 2009, 06:39 AM   #15
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It seems to me that there were other models besides the 1665 that had the same bezel as mine that were made well past the seventys and were a very common bezel for many years. Having said that, it seems like it should be easy to find an interchangeable bezel. The 16800 looks like its the same but it may be 316 steel from what I'm reading. What about the 16610? I know some have the unidirectional bezel and that is not an option. Maybe I am spinning my wheels on this one. The 5513 also looks like it would fit.
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Old 18 July 2009, 09:52 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadsWatch72 View Post
It seems to me that there were other models besides the 1665 that had the same bezel as mine that were made well past the seventys and were a very common bezel for many years. Having said that, it seems like it should be easy to find an interchangeable bezel. The 16800 looks like its the same but it may be 316 steel from what I'm reading. What about the 16610? I know some have the unidirectional bezel and that is not an option. Maybe I am spinning my wheels on this one. The 5513 also looks like it would fit.
Check on the vintagerolex forum, lots of advise there..
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Old 18 July 2009, 01:07 PM   #17
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I have a similar situation with my father's watch. It's a 14kt YG DateJust on a presidential band. The band is badly stretched and way too big for me (I'm a woman). I was told the only way to size it to fit would be to cut out links, which I didn't want to do because I plan to pass it on to my nephew someday and he'll need the band bigger.

So I removed the bracelet, had it cleaned and stored, and bought a selection of speed straps in a variety of colors. They can be changed out in seconds. I wasn't happy with the cheap gold tone tang buckles and wanted original Rolex buckles instead. Rolex wouldn't sell them to me. Steve Mulholland helped me out. He got me the buckles at a reasonable price and has been a delight to deal with every step of the way. He has treated my father's watch as if it's as important to him as it is to me.

Before too long I'll send it off for a spa treatment at someone like Dalton or Ridley. There's no way I'll send it to an RSC. Even if they'll agree to service it, it's not worth the risk of them switching out parts. This was my dad's watch and I don't necessarily want it to look new.

I will say, I think you should seriously reconsider selling your father's watch. If you don't want to wear it yourself, have it serviced and put it up for your son. It's an heirloom and heirlooms can't be replaced. Plus, it has a cool story.

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Old 18 July 2009, 01:12 PM   #18
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that bezel is not the common 5513 bezel first off..it is definitely thicker..that is one fine piece of mechanical art you have there..I would give you 5 brand new ones for it right now..lol..
also,I wouldnt worry to much about having that band repaired..they are still plentiful if you ask the right people.
also 904L was not implemented until the model 168000 (note the extra zero,that wasnt by accident) which was around 1988..so anything before that would be crafted of 316..
here are a couple of shots of the kind of bracelet you need and get one in the best condition as possible..its twice as expensive but fine quality is remembered long after the pain of spending money..lol
by the way,youll want a nice new 93150 bracelet with 580's for your everyday bracelet..but keep the 9315 for the setmaker
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Old 18 July 2009, 08:30 PM   #19
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that is a beauty!!! definitely a keeper....
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Old 19 July 2009, 02:47 AM   #20
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"that is one fine piece of mechanical art you have there..I would give you 5 brand new ones for it right now..lol.."

That seems crazy to me Steve, if your serious. I see some fine watches on this forum. My watch is to quote Will Smith "old and busted" and your watches are "the new hotness". To me my watch is a shadow of the new Rolex Deep Sea. Its a better watch all the way around. Goes deeper, stronger, better band, dial actually glows, better movement, new fancy hairspring (I watched the video on Rolex website) and here is the kicker, Rolex will actually service it. I guess a collector is looking at it from a different perspective but I always valued the technical aspects and design of the watch. In my mind its inferior to a new model and thus not worth as much. However, I am starting to feel like I found a copy of the Constitution in the attic. If you were serious, it might be tempting to have a couple of Deep Sea's with the pratty new blue dial. I do appreciate your reply and interest in my problem Steve as I am thankful with all of your replys. To tell you the truth my head is swimming with this darn watch. I think I am going to take some time as directioneng suggested "It's been around for a while so a few more months wont harm it. Take your time, make the correct decision about it's future.".
My Dad is probably looking down laughing his keister off about all of this.
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Old 19 July 2009, 03:06 AM   #21
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If it were me (and I realize it isn't) I would call Ridley or Dalton and arrange a sympathetic restoration, including the band. I'd keep the link with the hole in it. Depending on my budget, I'd also buy a nice bracelet from Steve or whomever for occasional wearing as you intend.

As far as being fixated on Rolex servicing the watch....get over it, they won't do it and if they perhaps do agree some guy in the lab will nick the good parts for himself. Don't send it to Rolex. The good restoration guys are at least as good, if not better. Your watch is not that difficult to service I would think, not from a mechanical perspective anyway. I'll note here that my 16750 came back from Bexley running 3 seconds per day fast.

By the way....those old stories from UAE and Dubai were great. Sounds like your parents had some *wild* times.
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Old 19 July 2009, 06:17 AM   #22
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Thanks for the advice and I'm glad you like the history. Do you really think that a repair person would steal parts from my watch at a "Rolex Service Center"? They deal with watches that are worth so much more than mine. Solid gold, diamond bezels, and platinum watches are what they see all the time everyday. Not to mention they probably get paid very well. Why would they jepordize their profession for a couple of old watch hands? I would also think they have video cameras in all areas of the facility to ensure security for the merchandise. I'm more worried about Mr. Joe Blow postman digging into my package before it ever gets to Rolex. I do trust them not to "steal" the parts but I am concerned that they would want to replace them with new parts. Hypothetically speaking, if a RSC somewhere (its looking like it will be in Never Neverland) then i would make it abundantly clear they are not to replace any part (if they have it in stock cough cough) or allowed to keep any original parts if and when they do replace said part. I can only go on their "word" that they would honor my demands but I do trust that "Rolex" would honor any agreements. In regards to their ability to service the watch without a scratch, I have no concerns whatsoever. I do agree with you about "good restoration guys" being "at least as good, if not better." I don't know what it is but they just exude that old world craftsman look and feel. Maybe its the eyepiece they wear. If I remember correctly the Canadian RSC said they deal with an "outside" service center that they refer clients with older Rolex watches to and that some of those guys have worked for Rolex in the past as repairmen, but don't quote me. As far as the band goes...I think this could be one big conspiracy to make Steve the richest man in the world because everyone is telling me to buy one from him.
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Old 19 July 2009, 06:32 AM   #23
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If Steve can't help PM and me and we can straighten this out. My advice is take a deep breath,and chill out a bit, it's not worth the headache, by giving yourself a headache. No one is gonna steal parts. The parts that are the most important are the dial and hands,the rest is all mechanical parts,and of course the case. I have 3 of these on my bench,and they're all gonna be as good as new. Also the hole can be closed with new 316 steel welds. The bezel is the hardest part to get
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Old 19 July 2009, 06:51 AM   #24
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Breathing

In thru the nose, out thru the mouth....smelling a flower.....blowing out a candle. Thanks for the reply Dalton. I haven't contacted anyone other than Rolex about getting the part. I really wanted to exhaust all official channels before being forced into "unauthorized" channels. I am learning that there is so much to beware of when it comes to Rolex watches. I liked the watch much better when I thought it was worth $1500. But if I continue to find dead ends then you and Steve will definately be hearing from me. Thanks for your reassurance that this is a solvable situation with a question mark on the bezel being the exception.
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Old 19 July 2009, 07:17 AM   #25
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good luck with your Rolex quest
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Old 19 July 2009, 11:40 AM   #26
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Thanks. I just noticed a post from bronco under the new members section that he had his watch, model 1665 serviced just last year by Rolex. They changed the bezel, hands ect. Why did they service him only a year or so ago? What has changed in the last 15 months?
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Old 19 July 2009, 01:15 PM   #27
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you could have a watchmaker put some other hands and maybe dial of lesser value and have it serviced by Rolex. If in case they decide to change things up you still have the og's. Once it's back put the originals back on.
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Old 19 July 2009, 08:19 PM   #28
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Its a classic and beautiful, watch and you must not sell it. Rolex UK will do a great job of restoring it for you, but may change some parts for you. Dalton will do a superb job on getting the watch back to normal or factory standard for you and I certainly would invest in letting him do that.

with regards to the bezel have a look on vintagefolexforums.com you might be lucky and get one from there or alternatively send SteveMulholland on a mision to get one for you...

but keep the watch no matter what, should you decide to sell it tread carefully and take advice....
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Old 20 July 2009, 05:03 AM   #29
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I recently took the watch to a local jewler and he said he could do the work but he couldn't get a bezel. When he told me that I decided to continue to try Rolex outside of the United States. Maybe I should rethink sending it back to Rolex in the US and do the hand and dial replacement thing, if they will go for it. Thanks Dalton. . The local jewelers name is Chingiz Ragimbekov and he is Russian I think. He works for Van Horne Jewelers. On their website they have a picture of him and a small bio. He helped me to confirm the numbers on the case by taking off the band and writing them down. He also told me that part of the band is cracked. The little tabs on the part with the hole adjustments are cracked. It just keeps getting better and better. Maybe Monday I will hear back from some of those I have contacted about service and parts. And thanks marke, I will check out that web page.
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Old 20 July 2009, 05:58 AM   #30
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there is a shop in southport in the Uk and the owner is a great guy called mike wood, he has and is a fountain of knowledge, he might be able to help you with your bezel and arrange to send it to you in the states.


his shop is called " the old watch shop"

hope this helps...

I will also PM you a contacts details who is based at rolex geneva, who may be able to help you as well.
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