Taiwanese AP Collector got banned and sharing his story

[HMHM]

Okay.... I am a little undecided after watching the video.
Few months ago, I did mention that AP were biased towards celebrities and that they get a free pass to all the good stuffs (all AP are good, just some are more equal).
Sunny isn't exactly a Taiwan A-lister celebrity (ask any Taiwanese), yet he got an 88 piece China LE QP.....
He started the video by mentioning that he's BLACKLISTED because he sold 2 WATCHES, and those 2 watches ARE SPECIAL WATCHES. WG Double balanced wheel and China LE QP.
Most of us here can only dream of those 2 allocations.
That's a positive sign that AP is taking the right steps to correct the perception of bias - that even though one is a celebrity, they are held to the same standards which is flip a watch and out you go! That's correct and should be commended!

On the other hand, if Sunny is blacklisted for selling a piece after 2 years for another AP (as he stated), what's is AP's rule for Mr Chu for running a wide open grey dealership?
So one is allowed to sell brand new watches like these: (https://wristcheck.com/buy/audemars-...reen-dial/1478) - note the rotor isn't a 50th anniversary, hence likely to be sold in 2023, and another guy can't sell a watch to spice up his collection?

So the prodigal son of AP can aid flipping and make a commission out of it, while others are regulated by rules and can’t act freely, even after passing the mandatory 2 year warranty period?

[Ashj52]

Thanks for posting this video, interesting. It seems as though 2 years was not sufficient time to sell, perhaps it's 3? Somewhat unclear of a "Rule"

[Armis]

Originally Posted by HMHM

So one is allowed to sell brand new watches like these: (https://wristcheck.com/buy/audemars-...reen-dial/1478) - note the rotor isn't a 50th anniversary, hence likely to be sold in 2023, and another guy can't sell a watch to spice up his collection?

This is a key question/point. Why can the Wristcheck guy do this without consequence? Is it because they aren’t his pieces being sold, or do the rules only apply to special pieces?

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by Armis

This is a key question/point. Why can the Wristcheck guy do this without consequence? Is it because they aren’t his pieces being sold, or do the rules only apply to special pieces?

He is not selling his own allocations. Will be interesting to see how this evolves with the new CEO.

[edo]

One truth is that brands are run by people and people sometimes act like semigods because situation right now is that they have the power to get or not to get allocation of luxury good that in reality no one needs... and we are all a little guilty for that...

On other hand, this collector who cries about having to pay to go to events, loosing a sleep etc looks like the thing he is bothered the most is that he is not getting signature Francoise Brokeback Mountain hugs from the back like some other collectors....

[Gourdman]

Originally Posted by edo

One truth is that brands are run by people and people sometimes act like semigods because situation right now is that they have the power to get or not to get allocation of luxury good that in reality no one needs... and we are all a little guilty for that...

On other hand, this collector who cries about having to pay to go to events, loosing a sleep etc looks like the thing he is bothered the most is that he is not getting signature Francoise Brokeback Mountain hugs from the back like some other collectors....

what is a Francoise Brokeback Mountain hug?

[edo]

Originally Posted by Gourdman

what is a Francoise Brokeback Mountain hug?

An old internal AP joke... you all know what about is a Brokeback Mountain movie right and there is no celebrity or influencer in these modern days that didn't get the Francoise hug from the back... but hey it is still a joke, like the ones with the turtleneck and coke driven afterparties... and G.I.Joe Code launch... but at the end of the day he was a great CEO and did a lot for AP....

[dauster]

Originally Posted by edo

One truth is that brands are run by people and people sometimes act like semigods because situation right now is that they have the power to get or not to get allocation of luxury good that in reality no one needs... and we are all a little guilty for that...

On other hand, this collector who cries about having to pay to go to events, loosing a sleep etc looks like the thing he is bothered the most is that he is not getting signature Francoise Brokeback Mountain hugs from the back like some other collectors....

Lolololol brokeback Mountain hugs hahahhahaha

You are a legend sir


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by HMHM

Okay.... I am a little undecided after watching the video.
Few months ago, I did mention that AP were biased towards celebrities and that they get a free pass to all the good stuffs (all AP are good, just some are more equal).
Sunny isn't exactly a Taiwan A-lister celebrity (ask any Taiwanese), yet he got an 88 piece China LE QP.....
He started the video by mentioning that he's BLACKLISTED because he sold 2 WATCHES, and those 2 watches ARE SPECIAL WATCHES. WG Double balanced wheel and China LE QP.
Most of us here can only dream of those 2 allocations.
That's a positive sign that AP is taking the right steps to correct the perception of bias - that even though one is a celebrity, they are held to the same standards which is flip a watch and out you go! That's correct and should be commended!

On the other hand, if Sunny is blacklisted for selling a piece after 2 years for another AP (as he stated), what's is AP's rule for Mr Chu for running a wide open grey dealership?
So one is allowed to sell brand new watches like these: (https://wristcheck.com/buy/audemars-...reen-dial/1478) - note the rotor isn't a 50th anniversary, hence likely to be sold in 2023, and another guy can't sell a watch to spice up his collection?

So the prodigal son of AP can aid flipping and make a commission out of it, while others are regulated by rules and can’t act freely, even after passing the mandatory 2 year warranty period?

Austen chu seems like a cool guy and I like his IG but the fact that he is a grey dealer but also a VIP of AP seems a bit ridiculous but what can I say that’s the watch world for you


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[edo]

Austen is special guy to AP CEO so he can do whatever he wants. For Francoise he was the role model of new collectors and to be fair Austen brought a bunch of rich Asian kids with unlimited money to AP... unfortunately, some of them are just like a guy from the video...

And even before Austen brought anything to the table, AP allowed him to design the 88 limited Perpetual and host an even... ok, design... guy literally changed the color of the week hand....

And not long after that, he got piece unique Perpetual calendar. Full openwork in steel, the watch we still miss in a regular AP production and one that will be like one of the most popular 39mm perpetuals (openwork in steel, platinum and TT)

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by dauster

Austen chu seems like a cool guy and I like his IG but the fact that he is a grey dealer but also a VIP of AP seems a bit ridiculous but what can I say that’s the watch world for you


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Nice to sit on both sides of the table

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by dauster

Austen chu seems like a cool guy and I like his IG but the fact that he is a grey dealer but also a VIP of AP seems a bit ridiculous but what can I say that’s the watch world for you


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I think this is a very dangerous precedent that AP is setting - one rule for him and another set of rules for others. It was thought that Wristcheck would mainly dabble in discontinued pieces, but now as per the link given, barely 6 month old 15510ST green dial is appearing on the site. That’s a massive slap in the face to AP if they are serious in combating rampant flipping. A similar analogy I can think of is how Boris wanted everybody to stay at home and isolate during Covid, while he was having parties with his mates.

I foresee that some very rich and prolific AP collectors (like Sunny) are going to be pissed when they don’t get the “Horoloupe” treatment of being able to have the cake and eat it too, and the discontent would grow from there…. People would start to question - why is he special and why aren’t we? Especially when they have spent a lot of money too with AP.

Rules are great if they are enforce equally, or else we might as well just use the wheel of fortune to choose someone to penalise.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I think this is a very dangerous precedent that AP is setting - one rule for him and another set of rules for others. It was thought that Wristcheck would mainly dabble in discontinued pieces, but now as per the link given, barely 6 month old 15510ST green dial is appearing on the site. That’s a massive slap in the face to AP if they are serious in combating rampant flipping. I foresee that some very rich and prolific AP collectors (like Sunny) are going to be pissed when they don’t get the “Horoloupe” treatment of being able to have the cake and eat it too, and the discontent would grow from there…. People would start to question - why is he special and why aren’t we? Especially when they have spent a lot of money too with AP.

Rules are great if they are enforce equally, or else we might as well just use the wheel of fortune to choose someone to penalise.

I don't really see why one should conflate the two issues. That Sunny dude sold his own allocations. Horoloupe sells pre-owned APs (including from our very own Conkers, IIRC). I agree that optics with Horoloupe isn't great, but I don't see "very rich and prolific AP collectors" asking why they can't become used watch dealers as well - they can, unless they start selling their own allocations.

[HMHM]

Originally Posted by VogelPhoenix

I don't really see why one should conflate the two issues. That Sunny dude sold his own allocations. Horoloupe sells pre-owned APs (including from our very own Conkers, IIRC). I agree that optics with Horoloupe isn't great, but I don't see "very rich and prolific AP collectors" asking why they can't become used watch dealers as well - they can, unless they start selling their own allocations.

If you rewatch the video posted by Sunny, in the beginning (minute 1:50 to 3:00 he stated he was given cold shoulder (no allocation) by AP for 1.5 years when he started Empire watch club and advertised a friend’s AP chronograph to help him sell it (without claiming any commission whatsoever if he’s to be believed….), so how is this any different to what Wristcheck and Horoloupe is doing? However, the outcome couldn’t be more different between the two.

I’m not saying Horoloupe can’t be involved in the secondary Watch market. But I think as an AP pseudo-ambassador/ poster boy, it would have been better if Wristcheck stayed out of AP, and focus on Rolex, PP and RM. Like you said, the optics are not great…. I get that it’s not his own allocation, but as AP gets stricter towards flippers, it’s really bad to see their VIP making a profit from other people flipping their AP when he should toe the AP line and encourage NO FLIPPING.

[Bearxj86]

Austen probably ran it by AP first. Its not a double standard to have a relationship with AP and actually talk and collaborate. Austen doesn't sell his pieces...

Eric Ku is a famous vintage dealer and I see him get a ton of nice APs..

Originally Posted by HMHM

I think this is a very dangerous precedent that AP is setting - one rule for him and another set of rules for others. It was thought that Wristcheck would mainly dabble in discontinued pieces, but now as per the link given, barely 6 month old 15510ST green dial is appearing on the site. That’s a massive slap in the face to AP if they are serious in combating rampant flipping. A similar analogy I can think of is how Boris wanted everybody to stay at home and isolate during Covid, while he was having parties with his mates.

I foresee that some very rich and prolific AP collectors (like Sunny) are going to be pissed when they don’t get the “Horoloupe” treatment of being able to have the cake and eat it too, and the discontent would grow from there…. People would start to question - why is he special and why aren’t we? Especially when they have spent a lot of money too with AP.

Rules are great if they are enforce equally, or else we might as well just use the wheel of fortune to choose someone to penalise.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Bearxj86

Austen probably ran it by AP first. Its not a double standard to have a relationship with AP and actually talk and collaborate. Austen doesn't sell his pieces...

Eric Ku is a famous vintage dealer and I see him get a ton of nice APs..

Lol I see no problem here ;) lol lol

Big difference between vintage and the below if you ask me ;) but whatever




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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by dauster

Lol I see no problem here ;) lol lol

Big difference between vintage and the below if you ask me ;) but whatever

LoupeThis (Eric Ku) auctioned a steel openworked RO in February and a ceramic perpetual calendar last November, and a few other recent ROs/ROCs. Not exactly what I'd call vintage either (although I have not seen freshly flipped watches on there).

I maintain there's a distinction between people who work with AP (Austin Chu, Ku or some of the TRF crowd) and those who try to play them (our friend Sunny).

[AgentDouble07]

Unfortunately I have to report an annoying “incident” during a purchase with Loupe This. I am a returning customer having completed previously 2 auctions without any issue.
My 3rd purchase, the most expensive of all, was an Audemars Piguet Royal Oak 15202ST, one of the most iconic and well know watches in the world, $50,600, not a small sum.

The watch was advertised as complete with box and blank guarantee, and 12 pictures. Was rated 9 out of 10 for conditions “near-mint”, their report also added “Cases exhibits crisp surfaces and sharp chamfered edges.” Watch was identified at “Circa 2000”.

I am an avid collector and among many other luxury timepieces, I own already a 15202ST, different dial color, and my guarantee papers are also unsigned/unnamed, although they do report the details of the watch, its serial number, dial code and reference.
My other watch is an F serial number, full set with original box and documents, this watch is also an F serial number, they are 81 serial numbers away, which means they were produced weeks apart.

As I receive my box and unpack the content and read the serial, I immediately realized that both the box and the documents included with this watch were not belonging to this AP. The box was from a previous era, it even included a completely different number/serial sticker on a side, the papers/warranty were also from a previous era, without any detail of the reference, dial code or serial number.

The watch was not in near mint conditions, it had a very deep scratch on the bracelet that was not reported and most importantly was heavily polished, with edges rounded and not sharp as they should be and were advertised.

I immediately contact Loupe This letting them know about these issues and giving them the benefit of the doubt of a mistake in packing the box/documents. In summary they limited their reply to “watch is sold as is” and did not confront me in any way on the multiple misleading and wrong information about this listing, and the box/paper that were most likely purchased on eBay by consignor and tied to this watch.

I asked to return the watch, as I collect only full sets, or to obtain a 20% credit, as that is the value on average of box and papers. I told them I could not pay for a mistake they made.

Their last reply was including their attorney, after I told them I had to inform the DCA and the watch community of what happened.

Be aware, they pride themselves as experts, vetting and guaranteeing their timepieces, this time the made a big mistake, and even worse customer care. They lost a wealthy client, and I just warn you, hoping you do not fall into the same trap.