Lange Odysseus, what's the verdict?

[anselm]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Fingers crossed - might be too much and with blue stitching matched to the dial.



Popped in yesterday after checking out the 175th anniversary pieces at the Boutique.

Nice comparison picture. I ordered the enamel dial, the other are out of my price tolerance for a watch but also too large for my wrist.

As relates to the odysseus. I have now had mine almost a year. The bracelet has grown on me more than I would have thought. I have worn on straps as well but have put it back on bracelet as it is so comfortable.

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by anselm

Nice comparison picture. I ordered the enamel dial, the other are out of my price tolerance for a watch but also too large for my wrist.

As relates to the odysseus. I have now had mine almost a year. The bracelet has grown on me more than I would have thought. I have worn on straps as well but have put it back on bracelet as it is so comfortable.

Congrats on getting the enamel / honey gold 1815. Very classy piece.

Thanks for the feedback on the Odysseus. Interesting that the design / bracelet seem to grown on people. I think the Nautilus / Royal Oak actually had a bit of a similar journey when they were first released in the 70s, with design, price (for a steel watch) and size initially being frowned a bit on by many.

[anselm]

Originally Posted by MCMartiny

Congrats on getting the enamel / honey gold 1815. Very classy piece.

Thanks for the feedback on the Odysseus. Interesting that the design / bracelet seem to grown on people. I think the Nautilus / Royal Oak actually had a bit of a similar journey when they were first released in the 70s, with design, price (for a steel watch) and size initially being frowned a bit on by many.

I chose the aquanaut over the nautilus when I bought it before the hype. The odysseus bracelet seems to wrap much better than a nautilus so it is very comfortable. Also I have been told, that all links have edges that do not pull hair. So that is another benefit as well.

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by anselm

I chose the aquanaut over the nautilus when I bought it before the hype. The odysseus bracelet seems to wrap much better than a nautilus so it is very comfortable. Also I have been told, that all links have edges that do not pull hair. So that is another benefit as well.

Yes, my impression from trying a few times is that the bracelet feels super comfortable. This combined with the easy adjust mechanism must make it very nice on the wrist.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by MCMartiny

Yes, my impression from trying a few times is that the bracelet feels super comfortable. This combined with the easy adjust mechanism must make it very nice on the wrist.

The easy adjust system is perfect, pop it on and 0.5 seconds later it is adjusted perfectly to your wrist - I know from experience my wrist can vary quite a lot from day to day or even from hour to hour.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

I really like it. However, despite a purchase history of a platinum Lange 1 Moonphase and requesting the watch as soon as it was announced, I was still turned down by the company.

Not a particularly pleasant experience. Anyway, I’ve decided to purchase an alternative.

So it goes.

I had a similar experience. It is inconceivable to me that a watch company would rather piss off a client who's purchased three watches from them than sell them a watch they want by basically saying "you're not good enough to get this, the supply is going to be limited". Even though it's not a "limited edition".
End of relationship.

[kunlun]

Originally Posted by cascavel

I had a similar experience. It is inconceivable to me that a watch company would rather piss off a client who's purchased three watches from them than sell them a watch they want by basically saying "you're not good enough to get this, the supply is going to be limited". Even though it's not a "limited edition".
End of relationship.

A know another person who sold off their Lange collection last year after a bad experience with ALS N.America.

It's an area ALS could improve.

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by cascavel

I had a similar experience. It is inconceivable to me that a watch company would rather piss off a client who's purchased three watches from them than sell them a watch they want by basically saying "you're not good enough to get this, the supply is going to be limited". Even though it's not a "limited edition".
End of relationship.

I agree, while the whole "application piece" thing might make sense for a rare only 10 pieces made grand complication, it makes little sense for a fairly run of the mill steel sports watch.

That said, Lange has obviously made the "marketing" choice to limit Odysseus steel production in order to try to ride the almost-impossible-to-buy-at-retail steel sports craze and address their usual issues of deep AD discounts and high secondary market depreciation. So in that light reserving Lange's first regular production steel piece for people with purchase history and making it a kind of "reward watch" do make sense. However, using additional non transparent criteria to deem collectors "not worthy" does seem misplaced and an ill advised approach as it both seems arrogant and will surely put otherwise big fans off the brand (potentially forever). I can only assume this approach is a not thought through unintended result of higher than expected demand and hopefully not a permanent Lange strategy.

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by MCMartiny

I agree, while the whole "application piece" thing might make sense for a rare only 10 pieces made grand complication, it makes little sense for a fairly run of the mill steel sports watch.

That said, Lange has obviously made the "marketing" choice to limit Odysseus steel production in order to try to ride the almost-impossible-to-buy-at-retail steel sports craze and address their usual issues of deep AD discounts and high secondary market depreciation. So in that light reserving Lange's first regular production steel piece for people with purchase history and making it a kind of "reward watch" do make sense. However, using additional non transparent criteria to deem collectors "not worthy" does seem misplaced and an ill advised approach as it both seems arrogant and will surely put otherwise big fans off the brand (potentially forever). I can only assume this approach is a not thought through unintended result of higher than expected demand and hopefully not a permanent Lange strategy.

So, as I have mentioned before I am not a fan of the ALS "look," but am unquestionably a believer in their quality. They ooze horology. That said, their position in the secondary market is undeniably an issue for them going forward.

Had a dealer at a HUGE secondary outlet (the biggest) tell me if they did not receive huge numbers of brand new models at wholesale pricing to move them end of year, they would stop taking in used ALS altogether because they are so difficult to move at profit.

Had another dealer at a mid size place say "ALS is the finest producer of 5000 watches per year, that should only produce 2500 watches per year, in the world." I thought it was amusing.

If you are buying an ALS and never ever selling it, who cares. But if you are like the majority of the collectors I know who move in and out of watches over the years, ALS is rough. That is undeniable. I don't know if they should cut production (as that dealer suggested they should), or something else, but I am not sure trying to pump up sales of dress watches by tying them to the success of a sport watch is the best tactic.

It's an interesting issue to be sure. Viewed from the back ALS is simply sublime. I hope this sports watch works out for ALS, and their strategy pans out because I'd like to see them be super successful, but I will always have my doubts with Richemont in charge.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by MCMartiny

I agree, while the whole "application piece" thing might make sense for a rare only 10 pieces made grand complication, it makes little sense for a fairly run of the mill steel sports watch.

That said, Lange has obviously made the "marketing" choice to limit Odysseus steel production in order to try to ride the almost-impossible-to-buy-at-retail steel sports craze and address their usual issues of deep AD discounts and high secondary market depreciation. So in that light reserving Lange's first regular production steel piece for people with purchase history and making it a kind of "reward watch" do make sense. However, using additional non transparent criteria to deem collectors "not worthy" does seem misplaced and an ill advised approach as it both seems arrogant and will surely put otherwise big fans off the brand (potentially forever). I can only assume this approach is a not thought through unintended result of higher than expected demand and hopefully not a permanent Lange strategy.

To clarify, the sales reps at the Lange Boutique I dealt with are all wonderful, helpful and very giving of their time. It's the Company I have an issue with.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Swaye

Had a dealer at a HUGE secondary outlet (the biggest) tell me if they did not receive huge numbers of brand new models at wholesale pricing to move them end of year, they would stop taking in used ALS altogether because they are so difficult to move at profit.

If you are buying an ALS and never ever selling it, who cares. But if you are like the majority of the collectors I know who move in and out of watches over the years, ALS is rough. That is undeniable. I don't know if they should cut production (as that dealer suggested they should), or something else, but I am not sure trying to pump up sales of dress watches by tying them to the success of a sport watch is the best tactic.

They are moving to a Boutique sales model with discounts a thing of the past. Govberg/Watchbox will be out of luck.

Can’t comment on others purchases but if I wanted to step out of ALS I would be running a great profit on all the pieces - none of which were discounted although one was a discontinued used piece (paid over retail for this piece).

[Swaye]

Originally Posted by Russell996

They are moving to a Boutique sales model with discounts a thing of the past. Govberg/Watchbox will be out of luck.

Can’t comment on others purchases but if I wanted to step out of ALS I would be running a great profit on all the pieces - none of which were discounted although one was a discontinued used piece (paid over retail for this piece).

Wow that's great. I suppose they were all very hard to get or limited pieces? The ALS I am familiar with are all steeply discounted on the secondary.

ALS value depreciation is sort of a running joke with dealers and collectors, but I do not follow the brand closely. I always assumed there must be some pieces that held up really well. Zeitwerk? Datograph?

I am genuinely curious. Is this "ALS hold their value about as well as a used boat" I have always heard not accurate? It feels like as long as I have been collecting watches (almost 14 years) I have consistently heard two things wrt ALS. (1) They make some of the finest watches in the world bar none. (2) Good luck when you go to sell it.

Can you share some of the pieces that see strong demand? Appreciate it!

[Swaye]

Almost forgot. It will be super interesting to see how the Boutique model works for them. I know it has worked like gangbusters for FPJ. There was a time when Govberg could get lots of "Boutique only" pieces as an Espace, but those days are over. The Boutique model took a few years to really start working, but now they have transitioned most all of the premium models direct to Boutique only and the Boutiques were basically sold out of everything for 2020 by the end of August.

So yeah, it took awhile to get it going, but it has worked splendidly well for them after some initial teething. Be interesting to see if ALS follows the same trajectory.

[raclaims]

I really like the boutique model move for them

IMHO They needed to flood the market to let buyers of other brands realize how special their pieces are What better way than super cheap on resale ?

Then once you have traction you move to limited availability via boutique only

I like it as a biz strategy

Anyway I find the staff at The boutiques to be second to none

[anselm]

I think the boutique model will work much better for them. For the vip ALS collector. There seems to be enough of them to buy a lot of the volume. If you track the prices. They have been stabilizing and moving up. So far the models holding value of increasing. All the lumen watches. The lange1 anniversary models. The blue dial pieces. Odysseus was well.

Sadly the Dato and zietwerk don’t do as well. Part is do to price point at msrp. The 1815 chrono actually does a lot better than the Dato. As the dealer network shrinks. I think their value will appreciate.

In terms of production. They are maxed out without investing in another factory.

[RollinMoses]

Originally Posted by cascavel

I had a similar experience. It is inconceivable to me that a watch company would rather piss off a client who's purchased three watches from them than sell them a watch they want by basically saying "you're not good enough to get this, the supply is going to be limited". Even though it's not a "limited edition".
End of relationship.

I was told in the boutique a few months after launch that you need purchase history with a boutique to place the order, purchases via ADs (which I had) did not count towards that eligibility.

The SA in the boutique was hoping for a change in that rule as enquiries had already died down, but that was before all of this.

[mongrelnomoad]

And what of we Lange fans who just loved the watches, and bought them irrespective of resale, perceived value, or company awareness?

I can’t help but feel Lange have alienated a loyal following by chasing instead a fickle and cynical demographic. Requesting an Odysseus immediately following the announcement (it’s well documented here also that I happened to meet the CEO and have a long discussion about the watch), had I been told “supply is tight, but we can get you the watch in six months”, I would have been understanding and happy to wait. As it were, the blunt “no” was quite simply a slap in the face, taking even the sales assistant at the boutique by surprise.

I have not been able to bring myself to wear my Lange 1 since, and have ordered a Czapek Antarctique instead of the Odysseus.

[anselm]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

And what of we Lange fans who just loved the watches, and bought them irrespective of resale, perceived value, or company awareness?

I can’t help but feel Lange have alienated a loyal following by chasing instead a fickle and cynical demographic. Requesting an Odysseus immediately following the announcement (it’s well documented here also that I happened to meet the CEO and have a long discussion about the watch), had I been told “supply is tight, but we can get you the watch in six months”, I would have been understanding and happy to wait. As it were, the blunt “no” was quite simply a slap in the face, taking even the sales assistant at the boutique by surprise.

I have not been able to bring myself to wear my Lange since, and have ordered a Czapek Antarctique instead of the Odysseus.

That is odd, I was lucky to receive one of the first few but was always told the issue for them will be production. I was told how many they could make the first year and annually and it is probably not what everyone wants to hear but keep in mind, total output is 5K so you start assessing all the models they make and you may get a couple of hundred per model. That is not alot to go around.

On top of that they ran into a supplier issue as the bracelet is not made by them.

[cascavel]

Originally Posted by mongrelnomoad

And what of we Lange fans who just loved the watches, and bought them irrespective of resale, perceived value, or company awareness?

I can’t help but feel Lange have alienated a loyal following by chasing instead a fickle and cynical demographic. Requesting an Odysseus immediately following the announcement (it’s well documented here also that I happened to meet the CEO and have a long discussion about the watch), had I been told “supply is tight, but we can get you the watch in six months”, I would have been understanding and happy to wait. As it were, the blunt “no” was quite simply a slap in the face, taking even the sales assistant at the boutique by surprise.

I have not been able to bring myself to wear my Lange 1 since, and have ordered a Czapek Antarctique instead of the Odysseus.

This was exactly my experience with one exception, at first my SA said it would be six months and then, a month later, told me it would not be possible to get me one. I asked for one the day of the launch after seeing it at the boutique.
Like you, I have decided to look elsewhere for the next addition to my collection.

[DGB]

I call many AD in UK + the Boutique in London, they all said the same thing regarding the Odysseus: basically no previous buying experience , ALS or other products => forget it.

I was as if I was talking to a Patek or a Rolex AD.

Some people are more lucky than other...


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[texasmade]

Originally Posted by DGB

I call many AD in UK + the Boutique in London, they all said the same thing regarding the Odysseus: basically no previous buying experience , ALS or other products => forget it.

I was as if I was talking to a Patek or a Rolex AD.

Some people are more lucky than other...


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Looks like based on some of the posters here that even with buying experience you can still forget it.

[GreenLantern]

This is what happens when a brand decides to jump on the SS sport model relationship piece bandwagon.

It's overdone. It's a chore and a bore.

Stop it.

[dchang81]

Hard to stop it when it's effective.

[GreenLantern]

Originally Posted by dchang81

Hard to stop it when it's effective.

Maybe just for Rolex and Patek. Thanks to everyone thinking these are investment vehicles.

[dchang81]

I mean FP journe, vacheron, and ALS are reaping the benefits too. Never in my wildest dreams would I expect an overseas to be trading at sticker if not more.

[MCMartiny]

Originally Posted by dchang81

I mean FP journe, vacheron, and ALS are reaping the benefits too. Never in my wildest dreams would I expect an overseas to be trading at sticker if not more.

There is definitely some kind of luxury sports watch "spillover" effect happening which has been going and accelerating for quite some years. It started long ago with the steel Daytona but then slowly proliferated throughout the Rolex steel sports range and up market to Nautilus / Aquanauts and Royal Oaks. Now it seems to be moving beyond Rolex/PP/AP to the brands you mention and beyond.

[GreenLantern]

Honestly, I don't think they're reaping the benefits of Rolex SS models doing so well, for instance.

I think what's happening right now is there's nowhere for people to dump their money, and people think watches are an appreciating asset because the numbers are fueled by an illiquid, unregulated, opaque market.

I'm not saying it's bad for the brands who get to ride on the coattails of Rolex (and to some extent Patek, although the Rolex SS models definitely have a wider reach in the media, etc), but I don't see this as a success on Lange's part. It's just spillover, as you noted.

[AK797]

Originally Posted by Russell996

It's gorgeous! I don't think I have a shot at 12. A Perfect wrist size (for me) - I wore my 5370 to do a comparison - exactly the same diameter as the 5370 and .9mm slimmer.

Patek wins this battle for me, not often I say that.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by AK797

Patek wins this battle for me, not often I say that.

The reverse comparison is interesting although I wasn’t allowed to photograph the Lange (not sure why).

[snarkq]

Anyone have insights into availability and value prop of the WG Odysseus vs SS? A friend with no purchase history was contacted by a boutique about it so it seems more attainable.


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