Is there an orthopaedic surgeon in the house?

[Ruud Van Driver]

I twisted my knee in the gym a couple of months ago; I was rolling my lats out on a foam roller and my foot slipped, knee twisted, bang!, scream, rude words, etc.

Since then, I ignored the pain as best I could and trained around it. I stopped doing cardio on the treadmill and instead did HIIT on the bike and managed just fine. Only real issue I had was every time I bent down, and stood up again the inside of the offending knee would crack (MCL snapping back into place? Dunno ). Only thing I did to counter the pain was ice but I never filled myself with ibuprofen and pain killers because I don't like to mask symptoms.

Walking wasn't too much of a problem. The only real issues I had was changing direction quickly, like if some muppet stopped suddenly in front of me because they were too busy looking at their phones instead of where they're going. That always led to a scream and rude words.

Anyhoo, I got out of bed one morning whilst on vacation week before last and as soon as I put weight on the leg, I screamed. It was like a knitting needle had been jammed into the inside of my knee and I had trouble walking thereafter. The biggest problem was bending my leg. Fast forward to getting home, I've since had an MRI and seen an orthopaedic surgeon. He's told me that I have both radial and horizontal tears in the meniscus and a tear in my ACL and that surgery is the only option. I am not ok with this because a shed load of my meniscus will have to be removed, which is likely to give me problems with arthritis in about 20 years time. I also don't like the idea that half my 'shock absorber' will be removed. The surgeon's told me that the meniscus will not heal itself although there's a slight chance the ACL might.

Now, I was scheduled to have surgery on Friday (two days ago) but I postponed it because I need to travel to India on a job tomorrow. For the past few days, I've been using Mrs Van D's knee brace that she had when she tore her ACL. I only use it when I'm going to be only feet for a protracted period. I don't use it in the house, only when I go out. I take it off in the office and put it on again before I go home. My knee does seem to have improved and I can now walk without limping for the first time in about ten days.

In all this time, I have never seen any swelling on my knee at all.

My question: is there a chance, however slight, that my meniscus will repair itself with the help of a decent physiotherapist (which I have)? Or do I bite the bullet, go back to hospital and JFDI?

Cost is not an issue as my medical insurance covers the lot

[ejvette]

I'm no surgeon but I've been where you are and those things don't self heal. What will happen is you will make a miss step or hit an uneven surface and bam that pains back again. Bite the bullet and get the surgery my friend

[cop414]

Can't help with any advice Paul but best of luck. I'm finding that getting old really sucks, beats the alternative though I guess!

[Etschell]

If your acl has a tear you need surgery.

I'm guessing you are not young. If a 21 year old nfl player needs surgery from an acl tear you can infer that a normal person would as well...

I knew a girl that tore hers playing Wii. She could walk but ultimately decided gonna be surgery and it all worked out well. She was 25 at the time.

[brandrea]

Sorry to hear Paul, that is a painful injury indeed.

I'm not and expert but I have some personal experience with this injury and if it's torn, you want to have the surgery to repair it. Your young enough that things will heal and you'll be back to normal in no time

[locutus49]

I am in a similar situation. Sharp stabbing sensation in the side of my knee during certain movements.

My ortho surgeon has taped my kneecap to pull it a bit sideways, and will x-ray again in a month to determine surgery.

I have heard of a stem cell therapy to help ACL tears repair themselves, but I doubt if my doc does that type of thing. You might google it.

[travisb]

If the ACL tear is a partial tear and not a complete tear, it can heal itself in time. It can also become a complete tear if you're not careful.
The meniscus tear will not heal on it's own but the pain can disappear for days, weeks or months but will inevitably return. Knee arthroscopy is the only real "fix" to what you have going on. Best of luck brother!

[Abdullah71601]

Sorry to hear about the knee Paul. It seems 50 has you wearing out.

I went through the same thing on my right knee. The torn cartilage will get worse with time. Depending on how bad the tear is (is it a partial tear?), the ACL might heal on its own.

The meniscus surgery has a lot of options, including some regenerative techniques. You'll need a very experienced specialist to do the regenerative work.

I had a bad meniscus repair job. It was supposed to be a simple cleanup. The knee got worse after the surgery and the surgeon added to my problems with numerous steroid injections. Had he not retired shortly after, I would have pursued legal action against him. Lesson learned - The results vary from surgeon to surgeon, so finding the right man for the job is quite important.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by ejvette

I'm no surgeon but I've been where you are and those things don't self heal. What will happen is you will make a miss step or hit an uneven surface and bam that pains back again. Bite the bullet and get the surgery my friend

Thanks, Ed. Mine was bearable for a while but the morning after my birthday, I got out of bed and boom! it was like I'd been shot in the side of the knee. I don't think I have a choice, mate

Originally Posted by Etschell

If your acl has a tear you need surgery.

I'm guessing you are not young. If a 21 year old nfl player needs surgery from an acl tear you can infer that a normal person would as well...

I knew a girl that tore hers playing Wii. She could walk but ultimately decided gonna be surgery and it all worked out well. She was 25 at the time.

I turned 50 at the beginning of the month but at 5'13", 200lbs and 14% body fat I'm in pretty good shape for a 'normal' person.

My injury was ridiculous, bloody foot slipping while pushing myself on a foam roller! I played rugby for 25 years and hockey for my city for two years but never had anything like this

Originally Posted by brandrea

Sorry to hear Paul, that is a painful injury indeed.

I'm not and expert but I have some personal experience with this injury and if it's torn, you want to have the surgery to repair it. Your young enough that things will heal and you'll be back to normal in no time

Young enough? Thanks, Brian. I think

Originally Posted by locutus49

I am in a similar situation. Sharp stabbing sensation in the side of my knee during certain movements.

My ortho surgeon has taped my kneecap to pull it a bit sideways, and will x-ray again in a month to determine surgery.

I have heard of a stem cell therapy to help ACL tears repair themselves, but I doubt if my doc does that type of thing. You might google it.

Yep, same here John. Not sure about stem cell though, not sure my insurance would cover it

Originally Posted by travisb

If the ACL tear is a partial tear and not a complete tear, it can heal itself in time. It can also become a complete tear if you're not careful.
The meniscus tear will not heal on it's own but the pain can disappear for days, weeks or months but will inevitably return. Knee arthroscopy is the only real "fix" to what you have going on. Best of luck brother!

Thank you, Travis

My ACL is partial so I'm planning on asking the surgeon to leave it. The meniscus is bad (surgeon's words) because it's torn horizontally and radially.

[Tony64]

I'm not an orthopedist but I did stay in a Holiday Inn Express.

In all seriousness, I wouldn't counter the advice of a qualified orthopedic surgeon, but from personal experience I've found that chondroitin and glucosamine seem to help. Although it's used more for osteoarthritis, it might be worth a try and don't seem to have any adverse side effects.

And since I'm not an expert, here's a reference from what I believe to be a reputable source.

An exerpt from Houston Methodist Hospital website:
"Glucosamine and chondroitin sulfate occur naturally in the body, mainly in joint cartilage. They can also be made and given in pill form or by injection. The theory is that these supplements can help protect, or possibly even repair, damaged cartilage. Scientific studies lend support to the benefits that these supplements have on reducing pain, swelling, and tenderness, along with improving knee joint mobility."

Hope this helps.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by cop414

Can't help with any advice Paul but best of luck. I'm finding that getting old really sucks, beats the alternative though I guess!

Damn straight, Sarge!

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

Sorry to hear about the knee Paul. It seems 50 has you wearing out.

I went through the same thing on my right knee. The torn cartilage will get worse with time. Depending on how bad the tear is (is it a partial tear?), the ACL might heal on its own.

The meniscus surgery has a lot of options, including some regenerative techniques. You'll need a very experienced specialist to do the regenerative work.

I had a bad meniscus repair job. It was supposed to be a simple cleanup. The knee got worse after the surgery and the surgeon added to my problems with numerous steroid injections. Had he not retired shortly after, I would have pursued legal action against him. Lesson learned - The results vary from surgeon to surgeon, so finding the right man for the job is quite important.

When the Doc who read my MRI called me, he said my tear was 'complex'. He said if it was simple, 'anyone can fix it' but because the state mine is in he said 'it needs the best we have'. The chap I saw can't be too far off retirement and is pretty senior.

I spoke to my physio who works at the at the same hospital and I asked her opinion. She advised me to get the surgery and asked who the surgeon was. When I told her she she's he's excellent and all his work is 'clean'. This is the same girl that got me out of my hospital bed with my ruptured disc last year and back in the gym within three weeks. I trust her so I have no issues if she says the surgeon is good.

Talking of my back, your back was knackered so was mine. My knee is shot and you had the same thing. I'm seeing a pattern here. Please tell me that you won the lottery or something!

[Tony64]

And it tastes pretty good as well. (Also available in pill form)

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

Damn straight, Sarge!



When the Doc who read my MRI called me, he said my tear was 'complex'. He said if it was simple, 'anyone can fix it' but because the state mine is in he said 'it needs the best we have'. The chap I saw can't be too far off retirement and is pretty senior.

I spoke to my physio who works at the at the same hospital and I asked her opinion. She advised me to get the surgery and asked who the surgeon was. When I told her she she's he's excellent and all his work is 'clean'. This is the same girl that got me out of my hospital bed with my ruptured disc last year and back in the gym within three weeks. I trust her so I have no issues if she says the surgeon is good.

Talking of my back, your back was knackered so was mine. My knee is shot and you had the same thing. I'm seeing a pattern here. Please tell me that you won the lottery or something!

I did win the lottery. I found a ticket on the ground a few months ago and won $4.

I did quite a bit of research on meniscus repair (I have more tears in my other knee). There are some advanced stem cell procedures that are supposed to rebuild the tissue, but the number of surgeons that do them well is still limited. Your surgeon is likely excellent, but may not be trained in some of these newer techniques. Something to look into before you have the work done.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

I did win the lottery. I found a ticket on the ground a few months ago and won $4.

I did quite a bit of research on meniscus repair (I have more tears in my other knee). There are some advanced stem cell procedures that are supposed to rebuild the tissue, but the number of surgeons that do them well is still limited. Your surgeon is likely excellent, but may not be trained in some of these newer techniques. Something to look into before you have the work done.

Whatever I get sone needs doing sooner rather than later. If I delay it and then have an accident while out on survey (let's say I fall down a 30 metre vertical ladder in the hold of a Capesize bulk carrier) then I'll have major problems because the insurance won't pay out when they find out I had a dodgy knee. If the unthinkable happens, Mrs Van D is gonna have a real bad day.

I think I'll get it done on Friday as scheduled unless one of our resident medical professionals says otherwise

[superdog]

Sorry to hear. I hope the repair process goes as smooth as possible.

[RichM]

Can't help, but hope all goes well Paul.

[FTX I]

Sorry to hear Paul. Hope you get well soon.

[Vanessa CW21]

I broke my knee and tore my ACL 20 years ago.
If I would have known what I know now, I would've never let anyone cut it open.
I went to the so-called "best" surgeon in the country (Belgium), and everything continued to get worse and worse. I've had 6 knee surgeries so far, and I'm in more pain than I ever was. I need a new knee now, and I'm still far from 40!
If you can strengthen the muscles supporting your knee, I would go that route first. A knee should not be cut on, except for extreme cases IMO.

[Sam Philip]

Sorry to hear about your knee. Partial ACL tears can be managed conservatively with physiology but have to be careful otherwise it would be a complete tear. Small meniscal injuries can be managed conservatively with physio but it is difficult to manage large tears conservatively and most will require arthroscopy especially if you have symptoms of knee locking. Having arthroscopy will keep you out of action for about 4 weeks. Have you had any thoughts of getting a second opinion from one of the knee surgeons in the UK?

[Rolex addict]

I had my knee scoped about 20 years ago. The scar tissue gave me more pain than the torn cartilage. That decreased with time and I have no issues. Surgical techniques have improved greatly over the years. If possible find someone who specializes in knees. If you have the option to come to the States for surgery, I'll give you the name of the guy who fixed my collarbone. He is world renowned for patching up professional motorcycle racers who destroy their shoulder or blow their knee out.

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by cop414

Can't help with any advice Paul but best of luck. I'm finding that getting old really sucks, beats the alternative though I guess!

Couldn't have said it any better. Best of luck

[locutus49]

I spoke to a lady the other day who had a knee replaced with a titanium one and says it was the best thing she ever done. She goes skiing and stuff, and does not notice that her knee is a replacement.

Originally Posted by Vanessa CW21

I broke my knee and tore my ACL 20 years ago.
If I would have known what I know now, I would've never let anyone cut it open.
I went to the so-called "best" surgeon in the country (Belgium), and everything continued to get worse and worse. I've had 6 knee surgeries so far, and I'm in more pain than I ever was. I need a new knee now, and I'm still far from 40!
If you can strengthen the muscles supporting your knee, I would go that route first. A knee should not be cut on, except for extreme cases IMO.

[Eatapp]

ACL if partially torn can be lived with and managed, this does not indicate surgery in and of itself. If partially torn it will cause some knee instability which will eventually lead to arthritis, the severity of which will vary based on age, activity level, amount of instability, etc.. The meniscus tear will not heal itself, but you may be able to calm down the irritation and live with it, although you may have recurrences of symptoms if you flare it up with certain activities (twisting, stair climbing, etc.). I'd see that physical therapist of yours, have him/her work with the knee and leg to increase stability and decrease inflammation. If you get farther away from the initial injury you will know whether or not it will settle down, then you may be able to avoid surgery! Feel free to get a second opinion from an Ortho as well. Good luck!!

[dmash]

Originally Posted by ejvette

I'm no surgeon but I've been where you are and those things don't self heal. What will happen is you will make a miss step or hit an uneven surface and bam that pains back again. Bite the bullet and get the surgery my friend

Yup this.

I have torn (complete) ACL & both menisci......surgery was the only way. You don't regrow the latter. FYI the intense physical therapy I did post op was absolutely brutal. This was 12 years ago now, I'm still okay. I'm pretty athletic though and have built up the surrounding muscle.

[nick c]

Wow I'm just reading it now, sorry to hear this Paul, I wish you a speedy recovery and all the best.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by Eatapp

ACL if partially torn can be lived with and managed, this does not indicate surgery in and of itself. If partially torn it will cause some knee instability which will eventually lead to arthritis, the severity of which will vary based on age, activity level, amount of instability, etc.. The meniscus tear will not heal itself, but you may be able to calm down the irritation and live with it, although you may have recurrences of symptoms if you flare it up with certain activities (twisting, stair climbing, etc.). I'd see that physical therapist of yours, have him/her work with the knee and leg to increase stability and decrease inflammation. If you get farther away from the initial injury you will know whether or not it will settle down, then you may be able to avoid surgery! Feel free to get a second opinion from an Ortho as well. Good luck!!

It was an orthopaedic surgeon that I've seen and has advised me that surgery is the only realistic option. My physio has also advised me to have the surgery and, like I said above, because of my physical condition she's pretty confident of a quicker than average recovery.

Vanessa's story gives me the horrors!

I think I'll go ahead with the op on Friday. It's an arthroscopic procedure, which I guess is normal. I'm just off a plane at Bombay and have had my knee in a brace since leaving home and my leg up and resting for most of the flight. 300 yards into the walk from the plane to immigration, my knee started knacking. Thing is, I get the point about building the muscles and whilst I do not have huge legs, I squat 240lb twice a week (and I mean squat with my thighs parallel to the deck). I could go heavier but I'm too much of a fraidy cat because of previous back problems.

Many thanks your well wishes guys

[Runnin' Rebel]

Hi Paul

Best of luck as I'm going through this now. I've had lots of therapy and nothing. It settles down and it's ok for a while, inside left knee area. It's very painful when it get flared up. It locks, it swells and cracks and literally when getting up from couch or chair it's almost impossible when it hurts. I'm going for MRI very soon as it's been 6 months with pain

[Vanessa CW21]

Originally Posted by locutus49

I spoke to a lady the other day who had a knee replaced with a titanium one and says it was the best thing she ever done. She goes skiing and stuff, and does not notice that her knee is a replacement.

I hope that's how I'll feel about it one day. Right now I just don't have the time for down time. The recovery is what scares me the most. I've gone to physical therapy hundreds of times. I'm tired.


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[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Vanessa CW21

I hope that's how I'll feel about it one day. Right now I just don't have the time for down time. The recovery is what scares me the most. I've gone to physical therapy hundreds of times. I'm tired.


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My dad had both knees replaced when he was 70. Rehab was about two weeks. He had put it off for ten years and said he shouldn't have waited to get it done. Pain free and on the golf course every day at 80.

[Vanessa CW21]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

My dad had both knees replaced when he was 70. Rehab was about two weeks. He had put it off for ten years and said he shouldn't have waited to get it done. Pain free and on the golf course every day at 80.

Thank you for sharing. It gives me hope.


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