Closing my AP chapter

[MGI22]

I had conversations with high-level executives from AP and they understand the pain a lot of customers are going through. It's an unfortunate situation but the supply and demand are still out of equilibrium. Once this revert to the mean it will be difficult for most people to obtain the watches they want.

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

I would like to respond to people asking me what's on my list, I gave my SA a list of interest watches, they call it "wish list" the new 43 offshore in Grey or blue. Royal oak with some complication such as chrono, perpetual or a tourbillon. Would like to complete my 3 hander royal oak with a white dial and blue dial. Would like a full gold royal oak in any configuration.

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[startrolexendrolex]

Originally Posted by GSDLover

I have been experiencing what I consider rude and or disrespectful behavior from AP over the past year and a half.

In May of 2021 I was introduced to one of AP's associates who helps people who do not live near a boutique or store. I had purchased a 26331OR on a strap the year before, and was looking to add a watch on one of AP's bracelets.

His name was Jerome. I kept in contact with him via text about once a month and early on expressed my interest in a 15500st or even the or.

Forward to March 2023. I reach out just to keep in touch.

His reply "What are you looking for?".

Ugh. This time I send him pictures. And I have heard nothing.

So in September of this year, I call the AP repair center here locally in Clearwater.

I speak to a very polite woman and explain my history and experience over the past year. They know who I am because I brought in some AP rockets for them to see that I had made. She promised to call me back and let me know what she could do.

Three weeks later, no call.

So I call again. She is busy but the receptionist promised to let her know that I called and she would get back to me.

Nothing.

This is just plain rude behavior. If there is nothing available, or I am simply an undesirable, fine. But have the decency to follow through on your word.

Time to move on for me.

This is the type of behavior that made one feel cast aside, almost like trash not worth responding to or pay attention too. My experience were not this extreme but same in natural. Is like we don't need your business and you have to prove to us your worthy type of thing.

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[Harry_S]

Originally Posted by Armis

Actually, why would you need to start from square one if you’re an established AP client? I thought AP has a centralized database where any boutique can look up your collection…and I remember reading occasional posts previously about how a boutique SA would change their interactions with a person once they looked up their record. This type of inconsistency of big brand boutiques is what can really be frustrating and saddening to read.

This is what I was told by the SA and confirmed by the manager. Your spend at a previous AD does not matter and although your previous history helps in merely to “get you through the door” you start from square one. Immensely frustrating but with AP its all about relationships and so I am okay with that, this is the way of the high end watch brands and truth be told they can dictate the rules as long as there are enough buyers wanting their product.

[Bearxj86]

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

I have a few APs 2 offshore 4 Royal Oaks and 1 code. I was on the hunt for more but with the crazyness of the past 24 month I haven't gotten a call or been offered a single piece. To be honest I was a bit upset at first I been a AP customer for more then 15 years and only worked with boutiques. I felt like they cast me aside at first. However after the first painful 10 to 12 month the urge to buy has reduced and now 24 month in I feel like my urge is gone completely for AP. I been buying GS, omega and some Rolex. My SA from AP called and texted me the other day and wanted to chat, I didn't feel tempted to make a purchase or even talk about what's on my "wish list" I'm officially out of the AP gang. I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has the same experiences the past 24 month or so.

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Did you sell any of those pieces recently? AP has a report they run each month that shows folks that changed warranty on pieces. These folks are blacklisted if pieces are sold too soon.

[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by messikens

I know you have some GREAT pieces in your collection but could you share what in your opinion a realistic collection is to be considered for a tourbillon or a QP?

OP already has 7 APs, how many more does he need to move up the ladder? It's not like he's going to buy the entire 11.59 collection to move up, is he? Asking for a friend :-)

I have no special insights, but once you get to models where the average boutique receives a handful per year, the calculus becomes more difficult. Relationship with the SA, client list of that SA, future expectations and just plain luck are probably more important than the exact spend history. I have "expressed interest" in some special pieces, but won't be too surprised if they don't materialize in the next year or two. But if AP stopped selling me ROOs, I'd be having second thoughts as well.

[NYG1121]

Count me as one of those who bought 2 pieces from one boutique and then SA left that boutique and new one opened near me. I have to start over and still have not gotten anything in almost 2 years.

[GSDLover]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

Count me as one of those who bought 2 pieces from one boutique and then SA left that boutique and new one opened near me. I have to start over and still have not gotten anything in almost 2 years.

What a dumb way to do business.

[mickyd329]

[QUOTE=macrowatch;12523902]
Not everyone has FHB or Bogliolo's cell phone on speed dial or has advent calendar gifts with vouchers to redeem next hot watch as holiday present!



Lol! I wish my man. If I did have FHB on speed dial everyone here would be getting the pieces they have on their wishlist.

[FrmrHoss]

Originally Posted by Armis

Actually, why would you need to start from square one if you’re an established AP client? I thought AP has a centralized database where any boutique can look up your collection…and I remember reading occasional posts previously about how a boutique SA would change their interactions with a person once they looked up their record. This type of inconsistency of big brand boutiques is what can really be frustrating and saddening to read.

I can say his experienced matched up verbatim with mine. I literally thought for a moment that I was re-reading one of my posts. Which is most certainly what has led to a lot of my frustration too.

[NTCP8]

A bit off topic, but consumers also have to understand their rights.

My family sued one PP AD because they didn't want to sell a watch (5980R). Too bad for that AD that they didn't have any mentioning of exhibition/display model, so according to EU Consumer Law, they are obligated to sell all products in the store, unless it's clearly mentioned that it is a display product. Obviously my family won the lawsuit (we got the watch), and that AD lost their PP authorised dealership. Couldn't care less...

My family did the same with Porsche, Audi, and Apple. Point being, EU Consumer Law will always be above the manufacture sales conditions, which most people don't know. Why do you think Rolex has these 'Exhibition Only Model' plates and AP a 'Display Only' sticker at the back...

So yeah, I couldn't care less about my relationship with any stores. I know my rights as a consumer, and I will exercise my rights when needed. If AP blacklists me because I sold a watch, and they don't want to sell me another watch, this is against EU Consumer Law, and AP knows that. It makes me cringe when I read posts when people are afraid of getting 'black listed' by selling THEIR watch, keep it real people and be more assertive.

No idea how it works in the US. EU definitely protects the consumer better. I did the same here in Hong Kong with Parson's Music. They didn't want to sell me a certain Gibson Les Paul model. Few calls and emails to the Hong Kong Consumer Council, and the guitar was mine.

[Trailboss516]

Boy you sound like a pleasure to be around

[NTCP8]

Originally Posted by Trailboss516

Boy you sound like a pleasure to be around

Because I know my rights? Sure, boy.

[Armis]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

A bit off topic, but consumers also have to understand their rights.

My family sued one PP AD because they didn't want to sell a watch (5980R). Too bad for that AD that they didn't have any mentioning of exhibition/display model, so according to EU Consumer Law, they are obligated to sell all products in the store, unless it's clearly mentioned that it is a display product. Obviously my family won the lawsuit (we got the watch), and that AD lost their PP authorised dealership. Couldn't care less...

My family did the same with Porsche, Audi, and Apple. Point being, EU Consumer Law will always be above the manufacture sales conditions, which most people don't know. Why do you think Rolex has these 'Exhibition Only Model' plates and AP a 'Display Only' sticker at the back...

So yeah, I couldn't care less about my relationship with any stores. I know my rights as a consumer, and I will exercise my rights when needed. If AP blacklists me because I sold a watch, and they don't want to sell me another watch, this is against EU Consumer Law, and AP knows that. It makes me cringe when I read posts when people are afraid of getting 'black listed' by selling THEIR watch, keep it real people and be more assertive.

No idea how it works in the US. EU definitely protects the consumer better. I did the same here in Hong Kong with Parson's Music. They didn't want to sell me a certain Gibson Les Paul model. Few calls and emails to the Hong Kong Consumer Council, and the guitar was mine.

That is honestly very impressive. I had no clue the EU has such laws, and credit to EU for actually enforcing them. Still, it started with you knowing your rights and not accepting to be disrespected.

[westbeach]

https://www.rolexforums.com/showpost...&postcount=109

In my home country (Denmark) it would be illegal for a seller to do this. If a seller puts a watch in his display window at a certain price and the buyer wants to buy it, then he must sell it at that price (and can not require other conditions).

Had it happened in Denmark, I would have called my lawyer and asked them to repeat their extortion rules to him, in which case they would have had a hard time sticking to their conditions and would have for sure folded.

As someone else mentioned, here in Thailand extortion is kind of a hobby and there is really no law, so they can do as they want.

Rolex Headquarters response to me has been:

However, we would like to inform you Rolex certainly does not encourage such practices you have communicated to us related to its products. Kindly be assured that your comments will be forwarded to the related Rolex Affiliate office in charge for their information.

I foresee a life time ban from the AD once they hear from Rolex Headquarters LOL!

Bundling is one thing but tying is also another issue where there are strict anti-trust and competition laws. Laws are different everywhere. Just because it isn't the norm in your country doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Kudos to NTCP8 for bringing this up as informational purpose but how many are willing to actually go and read the riot act to the boutiques?

[thekman]

Originally Posted by MGI22

I had conversations with high-level executives from AP and they understand the pain a lot of customers are going through. It's an unfortunate situation but the supply and demand are still out of equilibrium. Once this revert to the mean it will be difficult for most people to obtain the watches they want.

While I agree that there is a discrepancy in supply and demand I have also seen enough posts on this forum and others indicating that some customers are getting 3,4 and even 5 pieces a year while other customers like OP get nothing. So AP is essentially OK with making one guy really really happy instead of making 3-4 people happy. I am not saying this is the reason why there is a mismatch but it definitely does not help.

[OH2004]

Originally Posted by thekman

While I agree that there is a discrepancy in supply and demand I have also seen enough posts on this forum and others indicating that some customers are getting 3,4 and even 5 pieces a year while other customers like OP get nothing. So AP is essentially OK with making one guy really really happy instead of making 3-4 people happy. I am not saying this is the reason why there is a mismatch but it definitely does not help.

There are very few people that got more than two 50th. Even their most loyal customers got 2. If they got 3,4 or 5 it’s two plus x non 50th. AP tried to allocate pieces (ROC and 15510 non green/ blue) to attract new clients but a lot of those pieces ended up in the grey market.

[macrowatch]

@NTCP8, interesting story, thanks for sharing! I guess you're the one the stores keep referencing! Lol.

@OP, so what is your conclusion on what to do with the chapter?

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

A bit off topic, but consumers also have to understand their rights.

My family sued one PP AD because they didn't want to sell a watch (5980R). Too bad for that AD that they didn't have any mentioning of exhibition/display model, so according to EU Consumer Law, they are obligated to sell all products in the store, unless it's clearly mentioned that it is a display product. Obviously my family won the lawsuit (we got the watch), and that AD lost their PP authorised dealership. Couldn't care less...

My family did the same with Porsche, Audi, and Apple. Point being, EU Consumer Law will always be above the manufacture sales conditions, which most people don't know. Why do you think Rolex has these 'Exhibition Only Model' plates and AP a 'Display Only' sticker at the back...

So yeah, I couldn't care less about my relationship with any stores. I know my rights as a consumer, and I will exercise my rights when needed. If AP blacklists me because I sold a watch, and they don't want to sell me another watch, this is against EU Consumer Law, and AP knows that. It makes me cringe when I read posts when people are afraid of getting 'black listed' by selling THEIR watch, keep it real people and be more assertive.

No idea how it works in the US. EU definitely protects the consumer better. I did the same here in Hong Kong with Parson's Music. They didn't want to sell me a certain Gibson Les Paul model. Few calls and emails to the Hong Kong Consumer Council, and the guitar was mine.

LOL amazing. How did it all play out? How long did it even take to get the lawsuit going and when did you eventually get the watch?

So what is the story with Porsche and Audi? What car was difficult to get in Europe?

[thekman]

Originally Posted by OH2004

There are very few people that got more than two 50th. Even their most loyal customers got 2. If they got 3,4 or 5 it’s two plus x non 50th. AP tried to allocate pieces (ROC and 15510 non green/ blue) to attract new clients but a lot of those pieces ended up in the grey market.

I didn't say anywhere in my post that I am talking strictly about 50th anniversary pieces. There are plenty of non-50th pieces (including ROs) that are coveted by collectors.

[benlee]

Originally Posted by startrolexendrolex

I have a few APs 2 offshore 4 Royal Oaks and 1 code. I was on the hunt for more but with the crazyness of the past 24 month I haven't gotten a call or been offered a single piece. To be honest I was a bit upset at first I been a AP customer for more then 15 years and only worked with boutiques. I felt like they cast me aside at first. However after the first painful 10 to 12 month the urge to buy has reduced and now 24 month in I feel like my urge is gone completely for AP. I been buying GS, omega and some Rolex. My SA from AP called and texted me the other day and wanted to chat, I didn't feel tempted to make a purchase or even talk about what's on my "wish list" I'm officially out of the AP gang. I'm wondering if there is anyone out there that has the same experiences the past 24 month or so.

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I empathise a lot with what you posted. This is nearly exactly what I experienced. Old timers here in this forum may recall I used to be an avid AP collector prior 2020. I have visited La Brassus, frequently post photos in forums and on IG to promote the virtues of the brand. That was back before AP became hyped and "hot". I still own 5 AP ( 4 ROs and 1 ROO ) including the Jumbo and Skeleton. My POS at that time was the Hong Kong AP boutique which I have to say were very professional and treated me very well. After pandemic strucked, that's no longer possible to travel there. I tried to build relationship with my local AP boutiques in Singapore ( both locations ), the usual drop by to chit chat, introducing myself, talk about watches etc. By then AP has become "hot" brand and resale value skyrocketed.

Knowing my previous purchase record might not count for much even though it should, I asked to start with a basic 43mm grey ceramic ROO and even that, no news for 1.5 year. It's always one way traffic and their replies were always "we still waiting, we will let you know" followed by prolonged silence. What I am unwilling to do to get on their priority is to buy one of their codes, a product line which I personally dislike. A subsequent trip to AP House in London confirmed that this model is not that difficult to get with some waiting but the sales rep at AP house referred me back to SG as I am located in SG. Interacting with some fellow old time AP collectors, I know my experience is far from unique.

The last straw came when I read here someone totally new as a first time buyer being allocated a 50th anniversary jumbo. Maybe I was being petty and frustrated but I concluded that AP never wanted me to continue as their customer so I told them please remove my name from all their so called interest list, waitlist that never materialised. I am now looking to sell all my remaining APs ( which I seldom wear anymore ) and say goodbye to this brand for good It's hard to remain passionate when the brand itself treat customer with such indifference.

About them suddenly contacting you again to have a chat, I wonder if this is an attempt to rebuild bridges to old customers that they have cast aside. Now that some of the AP watches are coming down drastically in second hand market, there's no longer a long queue wanting to buy their watches and eventually, when the hype dies, they will still have to rely on the collectors market.

I might get some flame on this but then I am just sharing my experience.

[Armis]

Ben, your story is another very sad one to read, and even more so given your long history with the brand. Admittedly, this year has been an interesting one with a variety of AP allocation stories, most of which suggested a more positive direction that AP is trying to move in. But your experience is not to be dismissed as many can personally relate. Importantly, the one thing I would urge you to reconsider is your intention to sell off all your remaining APs, only because they were from better times, and you may regret it. At the very least, consider holding on to your Jumbo and skeleton as sentiments change. Hopefully AP is aware of such experiences of longstanding clients and will find a novel and convincing way to address such sentiments and reconnect with true fans of the brand.

[thekman]

Ben, I am sorry to hear your story. While I have been treated well over the past few years I can definitely relate with your annoyance that someone would be allocated a jumbo as a first piece. While I am happy for any collector to get their dream watch it leaves a sour taste to see how experiences vary amongst boutiques for allocations to the point that someone would get a jumbo as a first piece meanwhile a customer who has bought multiple watches over the years gets told that a jumbo would be hard to come by. It’s a weird time to be a watch collector for sure.


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[chaucer]

Thanks for your honesty, Ben. I think you’re the first heavy hitter on here to openly explain your frustrations. I am not in the big leagues but I have APs from the gray market. I’ve been trying for years to get a piece I actually want from the boutique, without success. It has been disheartening to see brand new APs on Moda almost every day. Whatever AP is doing to vet these buyers isn’t working - the boutiques are selling a significant number of pieces to people who don’t actually want them.

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by benlee

I empathise a lot with what you posted. This is nearly exactly what I experienced. Old timers here in this forum may recall I used to be an avid AP collector prior 2020. I have visited La Brassus, frequently post photos in forums and on IG to promote the virtues of the brand. That was back before AP became hyped and "hot". I still own 5 AP ( 4 ROs and 1 ROO ) including the Jumbo and Skeleton. My POS at that time was the Hong Kong AP boutique which I have to say were very professional and treated me very well. After pandemic strucked, that's no longer possible to travel there. I tried to build relationship with my local AP boutiques in Singapore ( both locations ), the usual drop by to chit chat, introducing myself, talk about watches etc. By then AP has become "hot" brand and resale value skyrocketed.

Knowing my previous purchase record might not count for much even though it should, I asked to start with a basic 43mm grey ceramic ROO and even that, no news for 1.5 year. It's always one way traffic and their replies were always "we still waiting, we will let you know" followed by prolonged silence. What I am unwilling to do to get on their priority is to buy one of their codes, a product line which I personally dislike. A subsequent trip to AP House in London confirmed that this model is not that difficult to get with some waiting but the sales rep at AP house referred me back to SG as I am located in SG. Interacting with some fellow old time AP collectors, I know my experience is far from unique.

The last straw came when I read here someone totally new as a first time buyer being allocated a 50th anniversary jumbo. Maybe I was being petty and frustrated but I concluded that AP never wanted me to continue as their customer so I told them please remove my name from all their so called interest list, waitlist that never materialised. I am now looking to sell all my remaining APs ( which I seldom wear anymore ) and say goodbye to this brand for good It's hard to remain passionate when the brand itself treat customer with such indifference.

About them suddenly contacting you again to have a chat, I wonder if this is an attempt to rebuild bridges to old customers that they have cast aside. Now that some of the AP watches are coming down drastically in second hand market, there's no longer a long queue wanting to buy their watches and eventually, when the hype dies, they will still have to rely on the collectors market.

I might get some flame on this but then I am just sharing my experience.

thats pretty sad on their part especially considering a ROO isn't exactly a watch with a big line to get. their pieces have down quicker than PP, not sure how they are going to navigate the market when they've soured some loyal clients, and not sure if so many of the new clients give a d-mn about the brand if there's no profit to be had.

[NYG1121]

To see some of the respected old time collectors bail is truly sad. I used to drool over your pics benlee! I dont blame you and this thread made me send a last ditch text to the old SA that I used to work with that is no longer at the former boutique. All I got was cant help you and I think that was also the final straw for me. I am not bending over backwards for the brand anymore and will just enjoy the one that I have. Or maybe it will be too sour of a taste eventually and I will move on completely (will require a change to avatar pic tho!)

[mickyd329]

So sad to hear Ben. You have been a long time collector and I used to enjoy your AP posts. As @Armis says, maybe you should consider keeping the Jumbo and Skeleton?
Is seems everything comes down to the boutique and the relationship you have with them. I'm sure the HK boutique treated you very well prior to the pandemic.


As for someone getting a Jumbo as their first piece, I just don't know how that happens. Here in North America, you have to get AP North America approval to get a Jumbo from a boutique now. I just got my Jumbo this year after collecting AP's for 8 years. It's just baffling...

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by benlee

I might get some flame on this but then I am just sharing my experience.

Sad indeed for such an esteemed longtime collector. Do you really intend to go down to zero? Not even one keeper? Really, really speaks volumes if you go to zero.

[chiscott_29]

Hi All. I know it’s been a very long time since I posted. I logged into the forum this week for the first time in months, just to peruse around and get an idea of what people thought of the market revision back towards “normal”.

I saw this post and it of course intrigued me, and I have to say now that I’ve read every post in the thread, I am both happy and saddened (if that makes any sense).

As odd as it sounds, I’m “happy” to see that there are former AP clients that have a much more substantial relationship with the brand than I ever had become frustrated to the point of leaving the brand and even selling off their APs. I don’t mean anything offensive here - It’s just somewhat reassuring for somebody like myself to see that I am far from alone. Of course, I don’t wish the frustration on anybody that was a fan of the brand. But the only way things will ever be recognized is for several long time collectors to say “I’m done”. It looks like that may be finally happening, but my gut says AP is far from getting to the point of listening.

But I am also saddened - I’m sad to see this behavior and APs unwillingness to address it to some degree. And by “address it”, I realize they can’t give everybody a ceramic skeleton or other insanely desirable piece. It just seems to me that AP is plowing ahead with this inconsistent allocation strategy that clearly puts a premium on hype and celebrity. Or, the pieces are still falling into the wrong hands (just look on the secondary market and it’s clear even some of the most desirable allocations are not going to “vetted collectors”). There’s no sense at all whether or not they will work with you in the future - it’s just silence or “we will let you know”.

I won’t go into the full story here, but I doubt it is surprising to hear I wrote off the brand after being told I wouldn’t get any 50th anniversary allocation. Prior to that, I worked with a very good AP customer in hopes of getting a steel or titanium PC, and that didn’t result in any allocation or signal that one day my patience would be rewarded.

While my spend certainly isn’t on par with many of the members here, it was still substantial and I never “flipped” anything. I even bought a Code - Not solely to get in good with AP, but thankfully I actually do like the watch. I do admit I did some trading to get into things I’d never get allocated, but I am sure AP doesn’t differentiate and I would understand how they couldn’t have a system where they scrutinize why people sell watches. So, I can’t say I am blameless if this was in fact a factor of stalling out my relationship with AP.

So today, I have sold all my APs except the Code - As I said I do like the watch and I refuse to take a bath on it when it is a watch I enjoy. I also have a 38mm ROC that I acquired on the secondary market. I no longer keep in regular touch with any AD or SA, so I don’t see any allocations in the future. I turn 50 (ugh!!) in 3 years so have contemplated asking to see if I can line up a PC alongside a milestone. But, I don’t know. I have such a bitter taste in my mouth with this brand. I’d be lying if I say I don’t lust after a PC and there are still watches they make that are truly stunning. But the aura of the brand is gone for me. I tell people to not waste their time trying to get in with the brand as it’s likely an utter waste of time and will become a source of frustration.

At the end of the day, AP is a private company and they can do as they wish. So sometimes I say I’m being naive and silly to care so much, or to think that anything will change. But when you invest your time, your aspiration, and your desire into something like this, it is hurtful to not have it reciprocated.

Anyway, I appreciate reading people’s experiences here and I wish everybody well. I hope those that move on are finding other watches to keep up their interest in the hobby, and those that continue to have a good relationship with AP I wish you continued amazing allocations!

Happy Holidays!


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[benlee]

Thanks everyone for the response and messages.

Yes, I still intend to sell all my APs. I do still love/admire the watches individually as purely a watch, esp the Jumbo and Skeleton for the craftsmanship and beauty. But every time I put them on nowadays ( which is rare ), the brand name on the dial just bring back bad memories so I end up not wearing them. And if I rarely wear them, that's not much point to keep isn't it? Eventually, I will move them on, sooner or later.

From my personal experience, the other brands like Patek, VC or Indies also have their hot watches and to a certain extend, also need to play the allocation game, but at least dealing with my ADs/Boutique Stales Rep, they are quite transparent in what they can allocate and what they can't. Some do require a long wait but eventually they come through. AP on the other hand lacks transparency and consistency I might say which adds to the frustration.

And like the poster above me rightly point out, if it's going to be frustrating, why bother? One spend money especially on unnecessary luxuries like fine watches to feel good, not to feel frustrated.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

A bit off topic, but consumers also have to understand their rights.

My family sued one PP AD because they didn't want to sell a watch (5980R). Too bad for that AD that they didn't have any mentioning of exhibition/display model, so according to EU Consumer Law, they are obligated to sell all products in the store, unless it's clearly mentioned that it is a display product. Obviously my family won the lawsuit (we got the watch), and that AD lost their PP authorised dealership. Couldn't care less...

My family did the same with Porsche, Audi, and Apple. Point being, EU Consumer Law will always be above the manufacture sales conditions, which most people don't know. Why do you think Rolex has these 'Exhibition Only Model' plates and AP a 'Display Only' sticker at the back...

So yeah, I couldn't care less about my relationship with any stores. I know my rights as a consumer, and I will exercise my rights when needed. If AP blacklists me because I sold a watch, and they don't want to sell me another watch, this is against EU Consumer Law, and AP knows that. It makes me cringe when I read posts when people are afraid of getting 'black listed' by selling THEIR watch, keep it real people and be more assertive.

No idea how it works in the US. EU definitely protects the consumer better. I did the same here in Hong Kong with Parson's Music. They didn't want to sell me a certain Gibson Les Paul model. Few calls and emails to the Hong Kong Consumer Council, and the guitar was mine.

Damn if this real sounds like an exhausting life tbh but good for you I would not have the energy to follow through with all these law suits


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