Paneristi forums

[Garycar51]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Seeing as you brought up Porsche...

The 911 brings to the table driving dynamics that aren't replicated by any other type of sports car, where a Panerai will tell time just as well as any other out there, so its not fair to comparison (although I'll admit its tempting considering Porche haven't really changed their design language in 60 years either...)

To your initial point, though, Porsche almost went broke in 1992 and had to evolve to attract new customers
Its actually the Boxster and a move to Water Cooling that saved the company.
Then, all the "Porsche Purists" got their nickers in a knot and swore they'd never buy a mid engine or water cooled Porsche cause it wasnt "a true Porsche" (is this starting to sound familiar?)
Meanwhile, the move attracted new customers, saved the brand from bankruptcy and kept them alive long enough to release the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera (again, sending the purists into a Hissy Fit)
Then, once they'd figured out how to not only sell a "Sports Car" to the 40 something accountant (The Boxster), but his wife as well (The Macan), they had so much money coming in it allowed them to further develop the 911 (and GT program).

"Purists" only buy posters and you need to sell more than posters to keep your lights on

Original Porsches were basically mid-engined cars made from mostly if not all VW parts. The 911 did not come along until 1963.

[shammad10]

I think a big part of it is the lack of streamlined products.
I went on the Panerai website the other day and there are 6 yes, SIX different 'collaboration' submersibles available with brands like Brabus and Navy Seals etc. What is that about.
Furthermore there are 20 OTHER different submersible models to choose from, all slightly different.
The same is to be said for the Luminor and the Radiomir lines. There is just too much of the same, and not enough innovation.

For example, why would you buy a new luminor when the older model is almost the same with a better movement, more water resistance and half the price on the secondary market.

[1William]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

It’s no shock or shame that a business is in it for the money, especially a business with a corporate conglomerate parent. Panerai made too many watches too fast and in doing so they committed the cardinal sin of a luxury brand, they made their product ubiquitous. Now and in recent years they have been struggling to pivot and get a toehold while still remaining relevant. There are some lovely new Panerai models that I would be happy to own, the loveliest of which reference their legacy models which are considerably less expensive on the secondary market. I just can’t bring myself to spend $12K on a Panerai when so many classics are available for $6K. I can’t be the only one. Therein lies Panerai’s struggle.

I agree with your thoughts. I enjoy Panerai and just picked up a 1305 from 2019 and while it is cosmetically a little beat up, I like it. Was looking at the 2305 and for what my AD wanted I was able to get the 1305 for less than half. I am always in the market for something unique and fun but I find most of the older Panerai's fit that bill.

[dannyboy123]

It's funny, I still love my 510 and stop by here now and again, hoping for an interesting read, but very very little traffic.

I concur that Panerai seem to lack a defined profile, no one seems that interested and they're well and truly out of favour. I did like the now discontinued Radiomir's and wish I'd grabbed one.

I stopped by a large AD in Singapore last week and was underwhelmed, but I can't readily explain why. In part the watches felt cheap and in some cases too small, and I'm not thick wristed. shame.

[Polar Bear]

Originally Posted by Kevin of Larchmont

There are some lovely new Panerai models that I would be happy to own, the loveliest of which reference their legacy models which are considerably less expensive on the secondary market. I just can’t bring myself to spend $12K on a Panerai when so many classics are available for $6K. I can’t be the only one. Therein lies Panerai’s struggle.

Originally Posted by 1William

I agree with your thoughts. I enjoy Panerai and just picked up a 1305 from 2019 and while it is cosmetically a little beat up, I like it. Was looking at the 2305 and for what my AD wanted I was able to get the 1305 for less than half. I am always in the market for something unique and fun but I find most of the older Panerai's fit that bill.

^^THIS^^

The new Green Cali Dial Rad (PAM 1349) is great, but for almost half i can get into a BNIB PAM 931 (Tropical Cali Dial Rad)
I'd love a PAM 968 (Bronzo), but aside from the fact that ADs expect you to have a spend history with them before they're even prepared to discuss it, for the same money, I'm in PAM 974 territory (Rose Gold Sub)

I've owned a couple of Panerai over the years (2 of which i still have) but i've never bought one from an AD, so when they discontinue something, or release some design i'm not happy about, i dont really complain much cause i know i'm part of the problem

[Fleetlord]

The last new Pam I bought from an AD was a 000...lol

Everything else I bought preowned and are older references...

Polar Bear is on top of this 100%

[dmash]

I Just recently found this out too after stumbling back into the brand. Paneristi had some great guys, I bought and sold lots of PAMs there back around 2010. Even met a few of those guys in person for local deals. Sad!

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by dmash

I Just recently found this out too after stumbling back into the brand. Paneristi had some great guys, I bought and sold lots of PAMs there back around 2010. Even met a few of those guys in person for local deals. Sad!

The Paneristis have always been strong within our own group but much less high profile the last few years. The core culture is still there it’s just the hype focus is all on the Rolex brand which isn’t a bad thing for a Panerai owner and collector. Panerai owners are certainly about the watch and not about the “flex”.

[dmash]

Originally Posted by Mystro

The Paneristis have always been strong within our own group but much less high profile the last few years. The core culture is still there it’s just the hype focus is all on the Rolex brand which isn’t a bad thing for a Panerai owner and collector. Panerai owners are certainly about the watch and not about the “flex”.

Hence me returning! Something was missing, I always have kind of yearned for another Panerai, I don’t care what anybody else thinks about the brand. I really enjoy their aesthetic and after I found my recent 233 I couldn’t be more thrilled. Glad to be back

But yes definitely had some good convo with Paneristi back then. Heck, everything has changed though, EVERY ‘watch guy’ I talked to 10+ years ago was a way different conversation than the ‘watch guy’ of post COVID.

[kaiserphoenix]

I also loved panerai but for me what annoyed me was the consistent price increase coupled with cost cutting. I don't mind if the price goes up and quality goes up or at least remains stable. But with Panerai its one of the few brands that actively cut corners including petty things like removing hacking seconds in their movments or for some reason NOT using their inhouse movements anymore and using sister movements like P900. Panerai was interesting back in 2010~ because they actually had unique designs but also very cool movements like the P2003 etc. Now they all just use more generic valfluerirer movements...even though they have their own stuff. They stopped doing see through backs and now focus on 40mm. I hope they get back to their ways.

[Cru Jones]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

I also loved panerai but for me what annoyed me was the consistent price increase coupled with cost cutting. I don't mind if the price goes up and quality goes up or at least remains stable. But with Panerai its one of the few brands that actively cut corners including petty things like removing hacking seconds in their movments or for some reason NOT using their inhouse movements anymore and using sister movements like P900. Panerai was interesting back in 2010~ because they actually had unique designs but also very cool movements like the P2003 etc. Now they all just use more generic valfluerirer movements...even though they have their own stuff. They stopped doing see through backs and now focus on 40mm. I hope they get back to their ways.

Great points.

I’ll add to that list of questionable moves (for Panerai) press-on case backs and spring bars.

[rolexgs]

Originally Posted by kaiserphoenix

I also loved panerai but for me what annoyed me was the consistent price increase coupled with cost cutting. I don't mind if the price goes up and quality goes up or at least remains stable. But with Panerai its one of the few brands that actively cut corners including petty things like removing hacking seconds in their movments or for some reason NOT using their inhouse movements anymore and using sister movements like P900. Panerai was interesting back in 2010~ because they actually had unique designs but also very cool movements like the P2003 etc. Now they all just use more generic valfluerirer movements...even though they have their own stuff. They stopped doing see through backs and now focus on 40mm. I hope they get back to their ways.

as I panerai fan who own 3 panerai, I agree all you said, but the fact that they have extended the warranty from 2 to 8 years is a huge improvement at least.

[Ravager135]

I've said it many times... Buyers want hand wound, minimal complication, sandwich dial, gold hands, no excess font on dial, regular production models with screw down casebacks for 5-10k.

Panerai intentionally only offers 1-2 of these details per model instead of just giving customers what they actually want. The collection is littered with "special edition" watches with loose associations, unnecessary complications and materials, that are overpriced, that very few people want.

I don't hate Panerai. There are select models (mostly now discontinued) that are outstanding watches that really capture the essence of the brand. It's just everything else seems to be going in completely the wrong direction for me.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

I've said it many times... Buyers want hand wound, minimal complication, sandwich dial, gold hands, no excess font on dial, regular production models with screw down casebacks for 5-10k.

Panerai intentionally only offers 1-2 of these details per model instead of just giving customers what they actually want. The collection is littered with "special edition" watches with loose associations, unnecessary complications and materials, that are overpriced, that very few people want.

I don't hate Panerai. There are select models (mostly now discontinued) that are outstanding watches that really capture the essence of the brand. It's just everything else seems to be going in completely the wrong direction for me.

We hate (I own 3 classics; 24, 112 & 210), but the general population obviously don’t.

[hkiang1]

I too wondered where the Paneristi met and chatted about their watches these days. Its interesting to learn its here in Rolex Forums or on Facebook.

I am not sure if I am a Paneristi, but I have been a fan of Panerai watches since the early/mid 2000s. I have owned several Panerai watches, and even identified with the brand so much that I gifted two Panerai watches to each of my two best-men/groomsmen when I got married, many years ago.

In recent years, I have been trying to collect all the icons of many of the other most prominent watch brands; which is to say, I have not been buying Panerai. But I was reminded how much I love the design, legibility and style of my PAM911 when I took it on a very recent vacation to Alaska. In fact, I found it so remarkable, that I bought another Panerai – this time a Submersible PAM1226 (on my way to Alaska). And I couldn’t have been looking all that bad wearing the 911 as it compelled another who was traveling with me, to buy his FIRST Panerai – a PAM422! I still love these watches.

[kaiserphoenix]

Originally Posted by Ravager135

I've said it many times... Buyers want hand wound, minimal complication, sandwich dial, gold hands, no excess font on dial, regular production models with screw down casebacks for 5-10k.

Panerai intentionally only offers 1-2 of these details per model instead of just giving customers what they actually want. The collection is littered with "special edition" watches with loose associations, unnecessary complications and materials, that are overpriced, that very few people want.

I don't hate Panerai. There are select models (mostly now discontinued) that are outstanding watches that really capture the essence of the brand. It's just everything else seems to be going in completely the wrong direction for me.

I don't mind automatic complicated Panerais, in fact I love that aspect of historical design meshed with contemporary mechanical tech. However currently Panerai is doing neither which is the problem for me. The recent GMT release was fairly good but its actually just a re-release of something we already had so basically its Panerai sort of coming back full circle. Its one of the few brands that has cool complications like a Zero Reset, or horizontal power reserve indicator etc. I wish they build on their watch making prowess instead of releasing 38-40mm Panerais with 30m wr and generic movements.

[trplthrt]

Just stumbled upon this thread here searching for the Paneristi forum which I hadn't used in a very long time. I am a long time watch obsessor and Panerai fan. Have owned lots of watches but in the end Panerai is my #1 favorite (still have 5 of them). One of the things I miss most is endless forum discussion about the nuance differences between painted and sandwich dial, what new after market band looks best on which piece, etc. So many great discussions. I can't comment on their movements, as it's not something I know well, and while I have been a bit busy with other things to obsess on the forums like years ago, I still love the Panerai look above all else. I think that will be timeless for those enthusiasts and for those that the watch speaks to.

I liked one of the prior posts which contrasted Porsche to Panerai in some ways. There are certainly core "historic" models, but the varying differences yet still keeping the core Panerai look across sizes, dial colors, hands, etc. is so great (okay maybe too many really) but tell me what's better than swapping out some bands on across pieces, feeling like putting on a Luminor one day and a Submersible the next. Love a woman rocking a white face Luminor. Overall, just the cleanest high end watch I think one can own (in the non-"fancy" category).

Maybe superficial in a sense, but the look is still second to none for me and I will always enjoy jabbing about the nuance differences across models.

Having said all that, I will likely try and sell one of my pieces as it's a more dressier version with a blue dial which I simply don't put in to the rotation any longer (and barely wore). But what a stunner! PAM 690, box and papers, barely worn if anyone is interested!

-Long time Panerai fan!

[funkright]

I still pine away for a 233 or 270. Just love the look of these watches. Now, I just need to find a price I can live with. My 1st PAM was an 88, then an 89, but nothing in the stable since then. Nostalgically looking back at the WIS world that used to be, it aint that way so much these days...

[Tseg]

Shake off the O-L-D. Panerai still makes plenty of great watches. 25% of their current line up is less than 44mm. This means 75% is 44mm or larger. The last few years smaller watches have had a comeback, swaying the trendy away from Panerai and forcing Panerai to have to add a bit more diversity. Panerai still have “the look”. Tastes will continue to sway back and forth. Maybe some are offended because today Panerai, being a bit out of favor, is more accessible. For me, Panerai today is getting a lot more wrist time than my Rolex.

[funkright]

I picked this up several weeks ago, love it and it's displaced my 116710LN since its reception!

[1William]

Good looking watch. Congratulations.

[DoricSpiker]

Some really good points made here. I don't have a Panerai in my collection at the moment, for the first time in years, but I will get one again soon.
Its fine to say they used to sell out watches however they only used to give each AD 1/2 of each watch a year so yes they sold out, but they were not making the most of the opportunity. They also had hardly any AD's from memory.
They have made some questionable moves but I don't resent things like the snap on case backs. If I was 30 years younger and starting out, the new 1085 Blu Mare is exactly what I would go for. I would probably only have 4/5k to spend. Would I even know then it was a snap on caseback? Its not like it falls off.
Like the new Radiomirs as well. The green cali has my attention.
As for Porsche, the Sales people at my dealership struggle with the purists there as well! I used diplomatic language there.......

[Saoirse32]

Originally Posted by Polar Bear

Seeing as you brought up Porsche...

The 911 brings to the table driving dynamics that aren't replicated by any other type of sports car, where a Panerai will tell time just as well as any other out there, so its not fair to comparison (although I'll admit its tempting considering Porche haven't really changed their design language in 60 years either...)

To your initial point, though, Porsche almost went broke in 1992 and had to evolve to attract new customers
Its actually the Boxster and a move to Water Cooling that saved the company.
Then, all the "Porsche Purists" got their nickers in a knot and swore they'd never buy a mid engine or water cooled Porsche cause it wasnt "a true Porsche" (is this starting to sound familiar?)
Meanwhile, the move attracted new customers, saved the brand from bankruptcy and kept them alive long enough to release the Macan, Cayenne and Panamera (again, sending the purists into a Hissy Fit)
Then, once they'd figured out how to not only sell a "Sports Car" to the 40 something accountant (The Boxster), but his wife as well (The Macan), they had so much money coming in it allowed them to further develop the 911 (and GT program).

"Purists" only buy posters and you need to sell more than posters to keep your lights on

This is spot on. Having owned Porsches and Panerai, I believe this to be true. Excellent observations!


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