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Old 22 June 2022, 02:41 PM   #1
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So I was looking at the 5712 on the PP website…

I keep fooling myself in to believing some day I will own a Nautilus… (We can all dream), but I was kind of surprised when I read the specs. The power reserve is (only) 48 hours.

Now, I am a Dorklehead about PP, but considered it as the epitome of watch watchmaking. People can argue about that for weeks but wouldn’t it make sense the Zenith (pardon the pun) of watchmakers at least equal Rolex in their (newer) models power reserve? 72 hours?

Maybe this is no big deal…. Personally, I actually consider it a nice feature my sub has the longer power reserve, it has come in handy a couple times. Shouldn’t PP lead the industry in a feature like Power Reserve?
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Old 22 June 2022, 02:46 PM   #2
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if you want a bigger power reserve, that usually leads to a large spring, and a larger thicker watch. People like the 5712 partly because it's so elegant and thin.
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Old 22 June 2022, 02:55 PM   #3
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Not sure I'd consider the 5712 a newer model. The watch is from 2006 and the 240 micro rotor movements were born in the 1980s. The specific 240 variant of 5712 has been used in other references since at least the 1990s.
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Old 22 June 2022, 02:57 PM   #4
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You can consider Patek 5101 which has a fairly high reserve of 10 days. Otherwise if you want more, the Hublot MP-05 LaFerrari has 50 days.
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Old 22 June 2022, 03:40 PM   #5
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I mean epitome of watchmaking had issues with the 324 datewheel sticking. Or saying that it's better not to have hacking seconds to it being added as a new feature. Power reserve seems to have never been high on the Patek priority list, contrasting with journes typically big PR
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Old 22 June 2022, 07:01 PM   #6
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The power reserve on the 5712 isn't ideal, but it does encourage me to wear it more often. I stay on top of the 48 hour limit by having a two watch rotation that I rotate on a daily basis so that the 5712 never runs out.
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Old 22 June 2022, 09:53 PM   #7
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It doesn’t bother me - would rather this than a thicker movement or one w lower accuracy


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Old 22 June 2022, 10:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
I keep fooling myself in to believing some day I will own a Nautilus… (We can all dream), but I was kind of surprised when I read the specs. The power reserve is (only) 48 hours.

Now, I am a Dorklehead about PP, but considered it as the epitome of watch watchmaking. People can argue about that for weeks but wouldn’t it make sense the Zenith (pardon the pun) of watchmakers at least equal Rolex in their (newer) models power reserve? 72 hours?

Maybe this is no big deal…. Personally, I actually consider it a nice feature my sub has the longer power reserve, it has come in handy a couple times. Shouldn’t PP lead the industry in a feature like Power Reserve?
Im surprised that you didint pick up on the 60m water resistance which is lower than the 120m of most of the others.
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Old 22 June 2022, 10:27 PM   #9
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A 5712 would look good on you Paul
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Old 22 June 2022, 11:35 PM   #10
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Looking at the current Nautilus availability the power reserve is probably your smallest problem.
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Old 22 June 2022, 11:40 PM   #11
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Worth it.
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Old 23 June 2022, 12:04 AM   #12
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Well, yes it doesn't look very high compared to others we can see from other brands.

However, here are a few elements to consider.

It was born in 1977 (starting to be a long time ago), with a nice micro-rotor, yet still at a 27.5 x 2.5 mm dimension. This size matter was very important for Patek as allowing smaller and more comfortable (lighter) watches. The bigger the parts, the longer energy has to travel, the more consumption (hence less accuracy or less PR).

A longer PR usually requires a longer mainspring (you can still work on the frequency), hence bigger spring barrel (like someone mentionned above).

Today, the evolutions of trends make that people prefer bigger caliber, especially as the watches get bigger ("to fill the caseback"). But that isn't coherent with an opinion that watchmaking would be about optimizing space, hence making as small as possible. The 1977's 240 is coherent with that philosophy.

It is very reliable and very accurate. A longer PR doesn't allways favor a better accuracy if not designed well enough.

The last manual 30-255 caliber has 2 barrels providing a 65h PR with 28,800 vph. It remains very thin but takes room. This new caliber is placed in the 6119 which is a 3 hander.

Having an automatic caliber doesn't make a shorter PR a problem if you wear a watch regularly. Of course, it can if you leave it aside for the week-end.

It is worth mentionning though that the PR is longer than stated as it is the PR that respects the best time keeping.

Thus, it depends on the wearer's habits.

For instance, the new 26-330 automatic caliber (replacing the 324 latest version) helped saving energy. When asking why they didn't increase the PR, they said the approximately 10 hours increase wouldn't really be helpful, for instance during a whole week-end (Friday to Monday). Hence they preferred improving accuracy instead.

You can have a look at the 26-330 article here (https://www.hightime-reviews.com/pat...aliber-review/) if you want to see what research is put in efficiency and accuracy rather than elsewear. Watchmaking is first about precision, even if for some use we might not really need it (hence prefer PR).

The new 31-260 micro-rotor is a precision champion, yet a similar PR but with a 28,800 rate (more precise, especially when dealing with micro shocks).

A question of choice but at a certain cost, depending on the wearer's habits.

I hope this helps.
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Old 23 June 2022, 02:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
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Im surprised that you didint pick up on the 60m water resistance which is lower than the 120m of most of the others.
This is actually another (IMHO) good point. Putting PP at the top of the watch making industry (along with AP and VC) I would kind of expect them to at least match Rolex in all features, including water resistance and power reserve.


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A 5712 would look good on you Paul
I agree Brian

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flex368 View Post
Looking at the current Nautilus availability the power reserve is probably your smallest problem.
A man can dream…


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vasco View Post
Well, yes it doesn't look very high compared to others we can see from other brands.

However, here are a few elements to consider.

It was born in 1977 (starting to be a long time ago), with a nice micro-rotor, yet still at a 27.5 x 2.5 mm dimension. This size matter was very important for Patek as allowing smaller and more comfortable (lighter) watches. The bigger the parts, the longer energy has to travel, the more consumption (hence less accuracy or less PR).

A longer PR usually requires a longer mainspring (you can still work on the frequency), hence bigger spring barrel (like someone mentionned above).

Today, the evolutions of trends make that people prefer bigger caliber, especially as the watches get bigger ("to fill the caseback"). But that isn't coherent with an opinion that watchmaking would be about optimizing space, hence making as small as possible. The 1977's 240 is coherent with that philosophy.

It is very reliable and very accurate. A longer PR doesn't allways favor a better accuracy if not designed well enough.

The last manual 30-255 caliber has 2 barrels providing a 65h PR with 28,800 vph. It remains very thin but takes room. This new caliber is placed in the 6119 which is a 3 hander.

Having an automatic caliber doesn't make a shorter PR a problem if you wear a watch regularly. Of course, it can if you leave it aside for the week-end.

It is worth mentionning though that the PR is longer than stated as it is the PR that respects the best time keeping.

Thus, it depends on the wearer's habits.

For instance, the new 26-330 automatic caliber (replacing the 324 latest version) helped saving energy. When asking why they didn't increase the PR, they said the approximately 10 hours increase wouldn't really be helpful, for instance during a whole week-end (Friday to Monday). Hence they preferred improving accuracy instead.

You can have a look at the 26-330 article here (https://www.hightime-reviews.com/pat...aliber-review/) if you want to see what research is put in efficiency and accuracy rather than elsewear. Watchmaking is first about precision, even if for some use we might not really need it (hence prefer PR).

The new 31-260 micro-rotor is a precision champion, yet a similar PR but with a 28,800 rate (more precise, especially when dealing with micro shocks).

A question of choice but at a certain cost, depending on the wearer's habits.

I hope this helps.
Excellent points
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Old 23 June 2022, 11:31 AM   #14
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Not really necessary. 48 hours works for most people.
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Old 23 June 2022, 01:08 PM   #15
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I also believe it's time to update movements.
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Old 23 June 2022, 01:18 PM   #16
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It would be nice to have a longer PR, but I just keep mine on a winder if I'll be wearing it in the near future. If it will be out of rotation a bit longer, a 72 hour PR wouldn't really help.
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Old 23 June 2022, 02:16 PM   #17
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For a brand like Patek, we expect more from them.

The dismal power reserve + water resistance is just not good enough.

I know it's hard to put so much in a slim case, but Tissot PRX 80 has 80 hours power reserve whilst IWC 2021 Laureus Mark XVIII has 120 hours power reserve ... and both have 10 bar water resistance ....
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Old 23 June 2022, 03:09 PM   #18
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For a brand like Patek, we expect more from them.

The dismal power reserve + water resistance is just not good enough.

I know it's hard to put so much in a slim case, but Tissot PRX 80 has 80 hours power reserve whilst IWC 2021 Laureus Mark XVIII has 120 hours power reserve ... and both have 10 bar water resistance ....
Thanks QRC, you have put it better then I did but this is the concept I was trying to express.
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Old 23 June 2022, 06:20 PM   #19
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I know it's hard to put so much in a slim case, but Tissot PRX 80 has 80 hours power reserve whilst IWC 2021 Laureus Mark XVIII has 120 hours power reserve ... and both have 10 bar water resistance ....
The thing is (about WR) that the Tissot and IWC are resp. 28% and 34% thicker than a 5712 (hence more room for thicker gaskets, etc...), which is a rather huge difference.

About the PR, it would be interesting to know what are the accuracy of these calibers. Patek's are below COSC required limits.

What I mean is that it depends on what the owner is interested in as a watch usually can't have all at the same time (thinness, PR, WR, Shock resistance, reliability, etc...).
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Old 23 June 2022, 07:39 PM   #20
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The thing is (about WR) that the Tissot and IWC are resp. 28% and 34% thicker than a 5712 (hence more room for thicker gaskets, etc...), which is a rather huge difference.

About the PR, it would be interesting to know what are the accuracy of these calibers. Patek's are below COSC required limits.

What I mean is that it depends on what the owner is interested in as a watch usually can't have all at the same time (thinness, PR, WR, Shock resistance, reliability, etc...).
This.

People can always get a Rolex if they want a thick and robust watch with a little more PR.

I have been swimming and snorkeling with my Mark XV rated to 60m for 20 years no problem as suggested by IWC below and I have been doing the same with the 5711.

https://www.iwc.com/us/en/specials/water-resistant.html
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Old 23 June 2022, 07:52 PM   #21
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If someone could point me in the direction of a watch that has both 10bar water resistance, and correctors in the case band for movement functions (date/moonphase/qp), I'd love to see it.
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Old 24 June 2022, 12:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
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For a brand like Patek, we expect more from them.

The dismal power reserve + water resistance is just not good enough.

I know it's hard to put so much in a slim case, but Tissot PRX 80 has 80 hours power reserve whilst IWC 2021 Laureus Mark XVIII has 120 hours power reserve ... and both have 10 bar water resistance ....
I kind of understand the power reserve issue but my question is how much this matters? Honestly, if I have a favorite watch, I’m going to wear it frequently but I have enough watches that I end up winding them when I put them on.

As far as water resistance, that has no real world value to me as I am not a diver. Even if I were, any high end watch would be the last watch I would wear doing that type of activity.

I guess different strokes for different folks, but my watch collection has been formed mainly by aesthetics.
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Old 24 June 2022, 12:50 AM   #23
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If someone could point me in the direction of a watch that has both 10bar water resistance, and correctors in the case band for movement functions (date/moonphase/qp), I'd love to see it.

I believe the thicker 5726 nautilus is 120m and has correctors on side of case… but I may only swim in it if that (2m)….


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Old 24 June 2022, 12:57 AM   #24
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I believe the thicker 5726 nautilus is 120m and has correctors on side of case… but I may only swim in it if that (2m)….


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Interesting, thank you
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Old 24 June 2022, 12:58 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
I keep fooling myself in to believing some day I will own a Nautilus… (We can all dream), but I was kind of surprised when I read the specs. The power reserve is (only) 48 hours.

Now, I am a Dorklehead about PP, but considered it as the epitome of watch watchmaking. People can argue about that for weeks but wouldn’t it make sense the Zenith (pardon the pun) of watchmakers at least equal Rolex in their (newer) models power reserve? 72 hours?

Maybe this is no big deal…. Personally, I actually consider it a nice feature my sub has the longer power reserve, it has come in handy a couple times. Shouldn’t PP lead the industry in a feature like Power Reserve?

Many love the 5712, and I believe recent polls here often have it favored or equal to the 5711.

As others have said, older movement, accuracy, thinness and water resistance are all competing against power reserve.

Do I wish it had a longer PR… hell yeah.

While we’re dreaming, I wish the micro rotor was better at capturing my desk diver movements into keeping the power reserve.

When I had mine I could only sustain my PR… but I rarely gained PR through my normal daily routine.

So once the watch was off wrist it would rightfully lose PR, but if I put on the morning and wore it the whole day, it would not increase but sustain. I usually solved this by winding for a few minutes.


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Old 24 June 2022, 05:02 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by qrc36 View Post
For a brand like Patek, we expect more from them.

The dismal power reserve + water resistance is just not good enough.

I know it's hard to put so much in a slim case, but Tissot PRX 80 has 80 hours power reserve whilst IWC 2021 Laureus Mark XVIII has 120 hours power reserve ... and both have 10 bar water resistance ....
Yes, and Rolls-Royces have very poor fuel economy. Clowns.
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Old 24 June 2022, 09:00 AM   #27
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I don't think anyone buys a Patek for cost/value basis. They could have 2m water resistance, even lesser COSC, and 12hr PR and would sell equally well.
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Old 24 June 2022, 09:31 AM   #28
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I don't think anyone buys a Patek for cost/value basis. They could have 2m water resistance, even lesser COSC, and 12hr PR and would sell equally well.
Yes, it's like comparing the performance of a fighter pilot versus a marine over an assault course. My money would be on the marine, not the pilot. Therefore fighter pilots aren't fit, and we should expect more from them.

It's almost as if compromises are not recognised.
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Old 24 June 2022, 05:32 PM   #29
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Yes, it's like comparing the performance of a fighter pilot versus a marine over an assault course. My money would be on the marine, not the pilot. Therefore fighter pilots aren't fit, and we should expect more from them.

It's almost as if compromises are not recognised.
I don't disagree but your comparison makes me wonder if you are aware of the OP being a former F-18 driver.

PS Not sure if Navy or Marines.
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Old 24 June 2022, 06:52 PM   #30
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I don't disagree but your comparison makes me wonder if you are aware of the OP being a former F-18 driver.

PS Not sure if Navy or Marines.
I was dimly aware.

Perhaps a better comparison is Rolex (or any mechanical watch) timekeeping versus my $10 Casio.
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