Has our hobby changed forever?

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by TimepieceRPP

So true. I always like watches since I was young. PP and Rolex are my dream of collection. After years working, I finally can start my collection but hit with the hype. I guess I need to wait for another decade to begin my journey. Hahaha

First time buyer ,now.Buy your Sub or Sub/Date in the secondary market and be done with it .I would suggest just that.
Two years ago,I wouldn't gave suggested it .

[KathleenL]

This forum is enough to make a girl paranoid. Since 1995 I've worn a diamond tennis bracelet that's 5.63 total carat weight of high quality diamonds. From May 2005 to May 2021 I wore a Tag Heuer next to the bracelet. MSRP on the Tag was $3,500. The only time I was worried about my surroundings was late at night after a return flight from Hawaii that landed in Oakland, CA, and we had to find a pharmacy to buy some medical supplies. I put my left hand/wrist in my pocket and kept it there till we were back in our car. In May of this year my husband bought me a Rolex 279171-0001 for our anniversary, and I've worn it every day since I got it, although I am not wearing the bracelet next to it as our AD advised against it because of the potential for it scratching the watch. Because of the pandemic, I'm not going anywhere (health issues that would make Covid very risky for me), but when I do start venturing out again I guess I'll need to be very careful. At least the watch is insured, but the dial has been discontinued so it wouldn't be easy to replace...

[padi56]

Originally Posted by GB-man

No you’re generally correct. Some parts of the world it’s more an issue than others of course.

I don’t think you can put the genie back in the bottle. Social media has made the world worse across the board as far as I’m concerned lol

Have to agree many of todays younger age whose sole info cupboard is in so called social media, Youtube etc instead of using there own brain. And many now mostly have the attention span of a gnat on the wall, and believe everything they see and read there. As so called social media which now should be called un-social media have taken over there lives and use of there own brain power to think for themselves.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by KathleenL

In May of this year my husband bought me a Rolex 279171-0001 for our anniversary, ....

, but when I do start venturing out again I guess I'll need to be very careful.

Yes,be aware.

[fsprow]

Pretty much everything in life changes, often not forever. I just take things as they come and enjoy the changes or move on.

[Moony17]

For younger enthusiasts like me who are just starting out, this makes me quite sad. But change is constant, so we’ll just have to roll with the punches. A different approach i guess for a new generation. It does not diminish my enthusiasm for these watches and given how difficult they are to acquire nowadays makes me appreciate them more.

[Harry-57]

Nothing stays the same. What has happened with watches has happened loads of times in loads of sectors, markets, organisations, jobs, careers and strands of society. Social media have accelerated it but did not cause it. People cause it and people always will.

I can lament when something which I used to feel comfortable with no longer fits, or I no longer fit it. But it's more likely that I'll be off doing something else. Or maybe going back to something where the cruel searchlight of hype as already swung through and moved on. People who tend towards sticking with a certain look/style/preference(s) occasionally become embarrassingly trendy, but the sheep move on. The sheep never stand still.

[travisb]

Originally Posted by Dan Pierce

It's changed big time during my tenure. Back in the day a TRF member who might have owned a couple Rolex, including a gold DD, could be just as giddy as a school kid at Christmas with a Seiko Orange Monster.

Just the sheer love of watches. Good times.
dP

I miss those days.

[Driver8]

Originally Posted by inadeje

I’m becoming rather concerned about our hobby. This isn’t a dramatic headline grabbing statement. Lately, there’s too much unwelcome attention focused on watches…Rolex, AP, Patek etc and it’s getting worrying that huge swatches of the population, both the good law abiding citizens and the criminals are focusing on expensive timepieces.

I’ve been collecting and wearing high end timepieces for over three decades, and remember a time when +90% of people had absolutely no idea which watch was valuable and which wasn’t. A time when nobody cared, and wearing a nice watch was something that merely engendered pride for the wearer. Nobody spoke about watches as investments nor price speculation. Getting your money back if you decided to move a watch along was pretty rare unless decades of inflation had given your piece a theoretically higher value. The criminal fraternity are also becoming way too interested in our hobby, or more precisely, relieving owners of their watches…

I’m not sure that I feel entirely comfortable with this current environment.

This isn’t an armageddon doomsday post designed to depress, I just find that what is happening to our hobby as troubling and quite saddening. Am I just too old and out of touch or do any of you share my views?

30 or so years of watch collecting here too, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. The dynamic has totally changed, especially in recent years, and especially with Rolex. I dislike how society (or rather allegedly ‘developed’ society) is so obsessed with money and greed, and I used to like how watches as a hobby were generally removed from that, apart from the initial outlay of course. But now the whole thing is consumed by ‘investment’ this, ‘resale value’ that, the ‘flex’ (which is a word that makes me cringe and curl my toes in my shoes whenever I hear it!), and all manner of crass stuff OTHER than just an enjoyment of nice timepieces.

Yes of course the heavens aren’t falling, but it is a shame IMO that a hobby I’ve loved for a long time has effectively been hijacked by greed, bragging, and speculators with little interest outside of money.

[HogwldFLTR]

With only ten years into the hobby, the hobby has changed from being accessible to out of reach. Most Rolex watches have tripled in cost in that time. It used to be that there were reasonable discounts on most watches. Now 1.5 to 2X pricing is the rule.

In my time during a few months leave from the forum I started getting active on WUS. It's both encouraging and discouraging to be there. There is a tremendous amount of interest in non-rolex watches and a fair amount of antagonism against Rolex watches and their collectors. It's great to see collectors who are enthusiastic about watches for other than gain potential. It's really sad to see what has happened to Rolex watches and the average Rolex collector. Has it changed forever? Let's just say for the forseeable future.

[Watcheroo]

I can relate to what you’re saying. Don’t think we’re going back to those days again…


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[Watcheroo]

Originally Posted by Seddyspaghetti

I agree, you’re probably just too old and out of touch like you mentioned.

You know you’ll be too old as well, if you’re lucky. Before you know it. So take it easy bud.


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[beshannon]

Originally Posted by inadeje

I’m becoming rather concerned about our hobby. This isn’t a dramatic headline grabbing statement. Lately, there’s too much unwelcome attention focused on watches…Rolex, AP, Patek etc and it’s getting worrying that huge swatches of the population, both the good law abiding citizens and the criminals are focusing on expensive timepieces.

I’ve been collecting and wearing high end timepieces for over three decades, and remember a time when +90% of people had absolutely no idea which watch was valuable and which wasn’t. A time when nobody cared, and wearing a nice watch was something that merely engendered pride for the wearer. Nobody spoke about watches as investments nor price speculation. Getting your money back if you decided to move a watch along was pretty rare unless decades of inflation had given your piece a theoretically higher value. The criminal fraternity are also becoming way too interested in our hobby, or more precisely, relieving owners of their watches…

I’m not sure that I feel entirely comfortable with this current environment.

This isn’t an armageddon doomsday post designed to depress, I just find that what is happening to our hobby as troubling and quite saddening. Am I just too old and out of touch or do any of you share my views?

I completely agree and have written about it several times as it relates to me.

Everything changes, however, my interest and enthusiasm has diminished for watches in the last few years.

I do not see this returning, these are now commodities especially since no one really needs them.

[watchwatcher]

I believe it has changed forever...well, at least my lifetime, anyway, which is my "forever."

I'm also older and gleefully out of touch. Yes, I said gleefully. To be honest, when I look around, I don't see a lot that I want to be in touch with.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Mystro

… the biggest focus now is ONLY on acquisition of a time piece. That’s all anyone cares about which is messed up. The actual watch itself, how it works, etc… has little interest…

This is probably the most irritating thing about the watch world today.

[DonRickles]

I just used my WG Daytona, to time my track laps in my classic Corvette? Worked yesterday, worked today.....

Screw the $$$$ BS.......

[blargle]

one of my analysts has been performing interviews all week for the next batch of summer interns - 19 years olds who are still studying.

multiple candidates have waltzed in wearing a rolex - all range of models, no way to tell if real or not. there is a lot of money washing around, but there are also a lot of stupid young people in -$10,000 of debt because they want to look good on social media

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by blargle

one of my analysts has been performing interviews all week for the next batch of summer interns - 19 years olds who are still studying.

multiple candidates have waltzed in wearing a rolex - all range of models, no way to tell if real or not. there is a lot of money washing around, but there are also a lot of stupid young people in -$10,000 of debt because they want to look good on social media

My 20 year old wears a 124060 ,because I have it to him .
Recognition of achievements in academics and national representation in sport .
I also sponsor excellence.

[stockjock1975]

Sadly, I’ve even noticed a dramatic change here on TRF. This comment is not intended to offend anyone, but 15 years ago the posts/discussions were much more robust and tangible related to our mutual interest in horology and quest for more in-depth knowledge. Lately, the Forum feels inundated with trivial items, such as “which Rolex will likely have the greatest investment return”, “Is it safe to wear my Rolex while it’s raining outside?” and nonsense like this.

Anyway, I don’t want to sound like a crotchety old man, but the hobby has changed dramatically and NOT in a positive way.


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[Greglaw]

Originally Posted by inadeje

I’m becoming rather concerned about our hobby. This isn’t a dramatic headline grabbing statement. Lately, there’s too much unwelcome attention focused on watches…Rolex, AP, Patek etc and it’s getting worrying that huge swatches of the population, both the good law abiding citizens and the criminals are focusing on expensive timepieces.

I’ve been collecting and wearing high end timepieces for over three decades, and remember a time when +90% of people had absolutely no idea which watch was valuable and which wasn’t. A time when nobody cared, and wearing a nice watch was something that merely engendered pride for the wearer. Nobody spoke about watches as investments nor price speculation. Getting your money back if you decided to move a watch along was pretty rare unless decades of inflation had given your piece a theoretically higher value. The criminal fraternity are also becoming way too interested in our hobby, or more precisely, relieving owners of their watches…

I’m not sure that I feel entirely comfortable with this current environment.

This isn’t an armageddon doomsday post designed to depress, I just find that what is happening to our hobby as troubling and quite saddening. Am I just too old and out of touch or do any of you share my views?

I think all of these people who don’t even care about it the way we do are ruining it. The celebrities, athletes, poseurs, so called “influencers” have driven prices into the stupid zone. And it has only heightened the arrogance of the few who pontificate about if you can’t afford it don’t play, etc. The market like many others is artificially driven of course, not by quality, etc, but, by the above-referenced groups. And all you have to do is read articles or watch videos of these folks to realize they just want them to show off. I have no issue with buying to collect, or people who have “collections” of just new watches because they can afford them, but, I do have personal frustration that it keeps them out of reach for other people who probably dream of them. I think of guys my age (57) who dreamed of buying a submariner and work hard to save up the 9k or whatever it is to buy a new one, and can’t. And lest the lecturers tell me about how everyone can’t have everything that they dream of or want, we aren’t talking about mansions or GT3s, it is still just a watch that used to be attainable for many people if they just saved, worked hard, etc. I believe that many of those folks truly appreciated their timepiece. However, seeing posting after posting after posting from a lot of people here and on other sites is interpreted by me, and it is only my opinion, that many don’t care about the achievement, the goal of getting one, only what it is worth, what it will be worth, keeping it in the safe, etc. People can do what they want, and have every right to do what they want with what they buy, ie buy an awesome car and let it sit in a garage or temperature controlled structure, but, my own opinion is that is a shame and a waste. I don’t want to be on my death bed wishing I had driven my sports car or wishing I wore my watches. But, again, just an opinion, and my opinion only.

[StanGMT]

I studied for a physics degree at a UK university in the 1960s - at about the time I bought my 1675 GMT Master. The watch was one of about six that the AD had in stock on the day I was there!!

These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.

We now all live in a completely different World. Not better or worse, just different. It is what it is and we can't go back.

I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.

This post isn't meant to be positive or negative, just objective.

Stan.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by StanGMT

I studied for a physics degree at a UK university in the 1960s - at about the time I bought my 1675 GMT Master. The watch was one of about six that the AD had in stock on the day I was there!!

These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.

We now all live in a completely different World. Not better or worse, just different. It is what it is and we can't go back.

I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.

This post isn't meant to be positive or negative, just objective.

Stan.

Good read .Thanks.

[inadeje]

Originally Posted by StanGMT

I studied for a physics degree at a UK university in the 1960s - at about the time I bought my 1675 GMT Master. The watch was one of about six that the AD had in stock on the day I was there!!

These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.

We now all live in a completely different World. Not better or worse, just different. It is what it is and we can't go back.

I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.

This post isn't meant to be positive or negative, just objective.

Stan.

Hi Stan, this is astonishingly interesting to me;

“These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.”

You appear to have been extremely lucky to have been in the company of someone who could foresee the effect technology in general would have on human society. And in such a precise manner.

“I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.”

This statement displays to me that our mindset is very similar. You’ve brought some profound socioeconomic reasoning to my thread which is supported by the factual inclusion of how certain aspects of technology could be behind these mind and psychology bending times we live in.

Thank you for that informed and extremely interesting input

This is why TRF is unique. The level of intelligence of many TRF members on this forum is unusually high. But only when we get into some intricate topics such as this one does the wealth of knowledge emerge. Its very refreshing to read these viewpoints such as yours Stan.

[TswaneNguni]

Originally Posted by Greglaw

I think all of these people who don’t even care about it the way we do are ruining it. The celebrities, athletes, poseurs, so called “influencers” have driven prices into the stupid zone. And it has only heightened the arrogance of the few who pontificate about if you can’t afford it don’t play, etc. The market like many others is artificially driven of course, not by quality, etc, but, by the above-referenced groups. And all you have to do is read articles or watch videos of these folks to realize they just want them to show off. I have no issue with buying to collect, or people who have “collections” of just new watches because they can afford them, but, I do have personal frustration that it keeps them out of reach for other people who probably dream of them. I think of guys my age (57) who dreamed of buying a submariner and work hard to save up the 9k or whatever it is to buy a new one, and can’t. And lest the lecturers tell me about how everyone can’t have everything that they dream of or want, we aren’t talking about mansions or GT3s, it is still just a watch that used to be attainable for many people if they just saved, worked hard, etc. I believe that many of those folks truly appreciated their timepiece. However, seeing posting after posting after posting from a lot of people here and on other sites is interpreted by me, and it is only my opinion, that many don’t care about the achievement, the goal of getting one, only what it is worth, what it will be worth, keeping it in the safe, etc. People can do what they want, and have every right to do what they want with what they buy, ie buy an awesome car and let it sit in a garage or temperature controlled structure, but, my own opinion is that is a shame and a waste. I don’t want to be on my death bed wishing I had driven my sports car or wishing I wore my watches. But, again, just an opinion, and my opinion only.

Good post .

My daughter finishes high school this year and I gave one of the speeches at the prize giving ceremony.One of the messages to the class was ... never forget to stop and smell the flowers .
No one lies on his deathbed saying : I wish I spent more time at work .

One of my specialist colleagues committed suicide this past Tuesday ....great shock to us all.Excellent,thorough,great doctor....

It makes one think again ,forces one to sit back ,have a nice glass of red wine and think about life and what has true meaning .

So dust off those safe queens ,pay the premium if you really want something ...and ENJOY !!!

[Koolpep]

Originally Posted by StanGMT

I studied for a physics degree at a UK university in the 1960s - at about the time I bought my 1675 GMT Master. The watch was one of about six that the AD had in stock on the day I was there!!

These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.

We now all live in a completely different World. Not better or worse, just different. It is what it is and we can't go back.

I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.

This post isn't meant to be positive or negative, just objective.

Stan.

Stan, by any chance, do you remember the name of the Professor? Imagining these new technologies is one thing, but extrapolating their social impact, is another level. Amazing!

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by DonRickles

I just used my WG Daytona, to time my track laps in my classic Corvette? Worked yesterday, worked today.....

Screw the $$$$ BS.......

That's one way to get into the hobby. Focus on obtaining precious metal watches that are too expensive for most other people or 25mm two tone ladies Date-Justs with diamond dials and bezels.

[jlovda]

Originally Posted by StanGMT

I studied for a physics degree at a UK university in the 1960s - at about the time I bought my 1675 GMT Master. The watch was one of about six that the AD had in stock on the day I was there!!

These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.

We now all live in a completely different World. Not better or worse, just different. It is what it is and we can't go back.

I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.

This post isn't meant to be positive or negative, just objective.

Stan.

When I graduated as an EE in 1970 I was also a "state of the art" technology junkie. I wouldn't touch tube audio, it had to be solid-state. I wanted a good watch and for about five or six years during the late 60's, I absolutely lusted over a Bulova Accutron (either Spaceview or Astronaut). When I went to Switzerland after college I think I stopped in most of the watch stores asking about one. I found out that because they were American made they didn't exist in the country. At the last store before leaving the country, Beyer in Zürich, I saw the 5513 in the case. It was really pretty and about $130. I took it. I guess I'm lucky.

[scarlet knight]

To add to the misery, I understand that few younger kids can tell time on an analog watch.
Only our Casio digital watches will have resale value.

[Peter99]

Originally Posted by StanGMT

I studied for a physics degree at a UK university in the 1960s - at about the time I bought my 1675 GMT Master. The watch was one of about six that the AD had in stock on the day I was there!!

These were the days of the NASA Apollo programme and the 1960s music festival scene - a great time to be young. During my physics tutorials one of the older professors would regale us young students with his predictions of the impact that the 'new' developing computer technologies would have on society during our lifetimes. He talked about miniaturisation, mobile phones the size of a cigarette packet, cashless payment systems, computer-assisted design systems, medical advances, neural networks and - most alarmingly - he warned of something he called 'social manipulation', facilitated by instant mass communication that would allow the widespread transmission of toxic material. He warned that this would transform and undermine society as we knew it. And he was right.

We now all live in a completely different World. Not better or worse, just different. It is what it is and we can't go back.

I do worry about the extent to which we have allowed ourselves and our civilisation to become completely dependent on computer systems, without any manual back up. I'm talking about the banking system, our hospitals, our food and goods logistics - the list goes on. It will only take some malign power, or even a major solar flare, to knock out these computer systems and we will be back in the dark ages. My old prof also warned of this.

This post isn't meant to be positive or negative, just objective.

Stan.

I agree, looking back over the years that the 1960's compared with the other 10 year periods that followed was very good.
Providing of course you had a resonablly well paid job/income. My job then was a Mech Eng Draughtsman having got my qualifications in the 1950's after coming out of the Army. Money was good, to buy reseasonable.
My desire for Rolex was in the 1950's when I was offered a new one by a Rolex test engineer for £50. I just could not afford it. In the 60's I was into cars. Pubs were full and jobs plentiful. But it all went wrong in the 70's. And after that, and all in all even now in some ways not as good as the 1960's. Happy days!
I myself have no worries about computerisation and the associated advances in banking and keeping records etc. i think it is fantastic what can be done when I realised that in some of our engineering calculations it used to take a draughtsman three days when a basic computer in the 70's could do it in 20 minutes! I was gobsmacked at the time!

[DonRickles]

Originally Posted by jlovda

That's one way to get into the hobby. Focus on obtaining precious metal watches that are too expensive for most other people or 25mm two tone ladies Date-Justs with diamond dials and bezels.

Clearly, the point to my post eluded you.....

"Life is what you make it" .........

It's up to the individual to use, observe, collect, admire, in whatever way they choose. Personally I prefer a retro looking piece, reminiscent of Rolex from my youth. Never in my wildest dreams could I have seen me as an owner.

Any hobby is whatever each of us do with it, not what's on a computer screen or following the hottest hyped nonsense....I like racing. Daytona is it's counterpart IMO......OK?