And we are crying over watch flippers.....

[Spartacus]

I feel like I’m watching my uncles arguing and then agreeing.

On-topic: I’m shopping for a GT3 and G Wagon, many of the listings have a shocking number of prior owners, in short periods of time. How this does not hurt values is odd to me. I won’t touch a car with three owners in one year. It screams rental and or abuse. We also still can order manual transmissions, so why 997s are still strong is peculiar to me given the 991 is all around a better race car.

I’m hoping the 992s push 991 prices down a bit. Seems like not any time soon, unfortunately.

[TRS1]

Originally Posted by rolexpatek363

And now you are a mindreader.

I don't know whether you realise how offensive your posts are. I deliberately didn't get involved in the Universe thread.

FWIW, I'm a physician. Not the cleverest, but no slouch, either. What is your scientific background?

How is what Patton250 writes offensive? I find him very civil.

[TRS1]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I feel like I’m watching my uncles arguing and then agreeing.

On-topic: I’m shopping for a GT3 and G Wagon, many of the listings have a shocking number of prior owners, in short periods of time. How this does not hurt values is odd to me. I won’t touch a car with three owners in one year. It screams rental and or abuse. We also still can order manual transmissions, so why 997s are still strong is peculiar to me given the 991 is all around a better race car.

I’m hoping the 992s push 991 prices down a bit. Seems like not any time soon, unfortunately.

If you know anything of detail about the 997 then you would understand why values are strong.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I feel like I’m watching my uncles arguing and then agreeing.

On-topic: I’m shopping for a GT3 and G Wagon, many of the listings have a shocking number of prior owners, in short periods of time. How this does not hurt values is odd to me. I won’t touch a car with three owners in one year. It screams rental and or abuse. We also still can order manual transmissions, so why 997s are still strong is peculiar to me given the 991 is all around a better race car.

I’m hoping the 992s push 991 prices down a bit. Seems like not any time soon, unfortunately.

The one owner 991.2 GT3's are all over 200K if miles are under 5000. I see one for 239K with 500 miles on it and its a 2018. Thats 60K or so over MSRP with how its spec'd and a 3-4 year old car. Crazy!

The 992 GT3 I posted first has lowered his price quite a bit, so maybe the market is softening? But that one is pretty stripped and think his ask price was way high to begin with.

[rolexpatek363]

Originally Posted by Patton250

I realize that my opinions are always offensive to the people that hold your opinions. This is not new and I deal with it all the time. Why is it your opinions aren’t offensive to me? I can handle your opinions just fine. But if someone disagrees with you you get offended? I’m sorry you feel that way. Nowhere in my post did I purposely offend you other than holding a different opinion. If that’s offensive then I’m sure you’ll find a way to deal with it.

It's the implication that I'm a hypocrite which I object to.

First, you called me a "virtue-signaller" for pointing out that it's absurd to get upset about lack of access to exotic luxury cars. Then you said I had done nothing to alleviate water access in developing countries, and now you are saying that I'm doing nothing about global heating, either. You repeatedly assign motives to me which I don't have.

It's basically a series of insulting assertions, none of which is true.

As for "follow the money" - that's the O&G sector. Huge profits, big mess.

Would you mind indicating your level of education wrt to natural sciences?

[Tricolore66]

Anecdotally, it seems like every Sunday morning I set aside to go put a couple hundred miles on mine, it rains. So yeah, I think they cause climate change!

Originally Posted by V25V

Great rebuttal.

And how did my GT3 thread turn into a climate change debate?

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Tricolore66

Anecdotally, it seems like every Sunday morning I set aside to go put a couple hundred miles on mine, it rains. So yeah, I think they cause climate change!

You may be on to something there.

That could be the answer we need for our drought in California.

You could hire yourself out as the rainmaker here. Every Wednesday you take your ride out for a spin and it rains for a few hours.

(We don't appreciate rain on the weekends)

[Tricolore66]

A lot of those have been flipped a couple of times from original owner and a dealer or two. It wouldn’t bother me, with all due diligence of course.

997’s are different animals with their own appeal and their own market. A 997 is a better “race car” than an air-cooled Carrera RS, but obviously it has nothing to do with the values.

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I feel like I’m watching my uncles arguing and then agreeing.

On-topic: I’m shopping for a GT3 and G Wagon, many of the listings have a shocking number of prior owners, in short periods of time. How this does not hurt values is odd to me. I won’t touch a car with three owners in one year. It screams rental and or abuse. We also still can order manual transmissions, so why 997s are still strong is peculiar to me given the 991 is all around a better race car.

I’m hoping the 992s push 991 prices down a bit. Seems like not any time soon, unfortunately.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by Blansky

(We don't appreciate rain on the weekends)

Now here is where you and I part ways. Yesterday, as all in SoCal know, was cold and wet. At one point I even got chilly letting the dog out, thank god I was only out for a few min or who knows what may have happened. Now I had to work all day but very much wanted to make it a lazy Sunday with a fire and some movies (not Dune). Instead I barely clung to life in what we can all agree were dire circumstances . . . 50 degrees 15-20kt winds. I am grateful for the rain however

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Atone

Now here is where you and I part ways. Yesterday, as all in SoCal know, was cold and wet. At one point I even got chilly letting the dog out, thank god I was only out for a few min or who knows what may have happened. Now I had to work all day but very much wanted to make it a lazy Sunday with a fire and some movies (not Dune). Instead I barely clung to life in what we can all agree were dire circumstances . . . 50 degrees 15-20kt winds. I am grateful for the rain however

I miss you already.

AND I feel your pain. The weather was brutal as it dipped down into the 50s and poured rain for almost 2 hours. My dogs refused to go outside, and said they'd hold it until things improved considerably.

Now today in the aftermath, my lawn chair is wet, and there are spots on the finish of my car. I mean....SERIOUSLY.???

I did watch a couple of great documentaries which I'll post on another thread.

[Atone]

Originally Posted by Blansky

I miss you already.

AND I feel your pain. The weather was brutal as it dipped down into the 50s and poured rain for almost 2 hours. My dogs refused to go outside, and said they'd hold it until things improved considerably.

Now today in the aftermath, my lawn chair is wet, and there are spots on the finish of my car. I mean....SERIOUSLY.???

I did watch a couple of great documentaries which I'll post on another thread.

I’m sorry to hear about the spots and wet lawn chair. There really isn’t anything but time to aid in recovering from such things. And I apologize for my tone, I realized some of the bubblers for my outdoor plants were still on yesterday which, as you can imagine, was catastrophic. I’m probably still stressed about that.

[Spartacus]

Originally Posted by V25V

The one owner 991.2 GT3's are all over 200K if miles are under 5000. I see one for 239K with 500 miles on it and its a 2018. Thats 60K or so over MSRP with how its spec'd and a 3-4 year old car. Crazy!

The 992 GT3 I posted first has lowered his price quite a bit, so maybe the market is softening? But that one is pretty stripped and think his ask price was way high to begin with.

I don’t get it. At $250k+ you are entering 450/488 and possibly Hurucan territory. At some point, $ for $, whether it’s a race car or a wealth signal, it’s not making a whole lot of sense.

Another baffling trend are cars with traditionally high cost parts and maintenance rising in values. V10 BMWs, Supercharged Range Rovers, who has the stomach or wherewithal to source transmissions, transfer cases, brakes, etc. huge profits on BaT, but man which poor soul is going to locate a new clutch for a early 2000s m car. At least with Mercedes the AMGs have long spans.

GT-Rs seem to be the only exception to the trend. But I digress.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I don’t get it. At $250k+ you are entering 450/488 and possibly Hurucan territory. At some point, $ for $, whether it’s a race car or a wealth signal, it’s not making a whole lot of sense.

Another baffling trend are cars with traditionally high cost parts and maintenance rising in values. V10 BMWs, Supercharged Range Rovers, who has the stomach or wherewithal to source transmissions, transfer cases, brakes, etc. huge profits on BaT, but man which poor soul is going to locate a new clutch for a early 2000s m car. At least with Mercedes the AMGs have long spans.

GT-Rs seem to be the only exception to the trend. But I digress.

You are but a fairly older one with many more miles. And I for one would argue that the 991 GT3 is a far better drivers car than either of those noted. But yes, still nuts and not sure anyone but a real Porsche collector would pay that sort of money for one. As for the 992, if you really have to have it now and no relationship/inroads with a dealer, you may have to go this route and pony up.

[sokoloka]

All this craziness makes me even more content with the timing of my 812SF purchase. Let my F8 spider order slip and that's now been discontinued as well - just not into all the nervous energy with everything the moment.

Perfectly happy to keep roughing it in the 458/812SF LOL.

[904VT]

Crazy times. Feels like the hyperinflation time of the 70's is back in cycle. This time, it's masked by supply chain issues that make it seem like difficult to produce new product. Reality seems like input costs are way more and manufactures are shuttering production because not feasible at current pricing. A new 911 (non Turbo and non limited edition i.e. 911 GT3) is what $150k now just msrp in some cases. I was considering a 997 Turbo, but like most things, they've sky rocketed, so I'll pass for now. I think special edition 911s are only going to take off from here though. The commitment to EV, I think has been the catalyst to price inflation in the auto industry. Upped demand along with reduced supply. I don't think any 911 owners want a pure EV, so the time is now to jump on a Porsche if you want something traditional.

From a contrarian point of view, this vehicle "shortage" has only helped solve the problem of the oversaturated pre-owned vehicle market. All those vehicles miraculously have found a home now.

[904VT]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I feel like I’m watching my uncles arguing and then agreeing.

On-topic: I’m shopping for a GT3 and G Wagon, many of the listings have a shocking number of prior owners, in short periods of time. How this does not hurt values is odd to me. I won’t touch a car with three owners in one year. It screams rental and or abuse. We also still can order manual transmissions, so why 997s are still strong is peculiar to me given the 991 is all around a better race car.

I’m hoping the 992s push 991 prices down a bit. Seems like not any time soon, unfortunately.

Personally, can only speak to why I prefer the 997 and in the market for one potentially. The reason being, I prefer the styling of the 997. I think Porsche hit a home run with the 997, and it's also the first 911 series with PDK. Pricing of the 997 has been getting a bit rich lately though. I'll probably wait for a better entry point if it ever comes along.

PS G prices have gone insane. Even the pre-owned market for them. Was considering too, but decided to pay premium on new Bronco instead. I use it for off-roading, so the triple lockers in something bigger than a Wrangler is what I was looking for most.

[iLLGT2]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Personally, can only speak to why I prefer the 997 and in the market for one potentially. The reason being, I prefer the styling of the 997. I think Porsche hit a home run with the 997, and it's also the first 911 series with PDK. Pricing of the 997 has been getting a bit rich lately though. I'll probably wait for a better entry point if it ever comes along.

PS G prices have gone insane. Even the pre-owned market for them. Was considering too, but decided to pay premium on new Bronco instead. I use it for off-roading, so the triple lockers in something bigger than a Wrangler is what I was looking for most.

Im actually kind of pissed at the market because I bought my machines to do road trips, track stuff, drive the hell out of them... all this market has done is make me realize how much these cars aren't worth the values LOL, goes for watch prices too
\Yes im fortunate to be on the upside of this all, but its annoying being a car guy first before all of of this craziness

My new Huracan STO coming is stupid over asking at the moment and has me thinking hmm.... my huracan evo spyder way over

my 997 GT2 id never think of tracking at this point or even modding extensively like I did in the past as they are approaching 300k + range

Oh well, im very thankful regardless !!!!!

[904VT]

Originally Posted by iLLGT2

Im actually kind of pissed at the market because I bought my machines to do road trips, track stuff, drive the hell out of them... all this market has done is make me realize how much these cars aren't worth the values LOL, goes for watch prices too
\Yes im fortunate to be on the upside of this all, but its annoying being a car guy first before all of of this craziness

My new Huracan STO coming is stupid over asking at the moment and has me thinking hmm.... my huracan evo spyder way over

my 997 GT2 id never think of tracking at this point or even modding extensively like I did in the past as they are approaching 300k + range

Oh well, im very thankful regardless !!!!!

Love your collection Martin, congrats!

I know exactly how you feel. It's kind of how the classic Enzo cars went that were meant to drive and enjoy, but at a certain point became too collector type to fully enjoy on the road and track. On a somewhat related note, I was looking at the new M4 announcement from BMW and just was thinking similar. While much less expensive/value than supercars, it just feels the M3/4 was never meant to be a $100k luxury car that was babied. Starting to feel the basic 911 is going that way too unfortunately and losing some essence.

Btw the 997 GT2 may be the best modern Porsche of all time. Imo at least. More classic than the 918, but all the track capability needed.

[iLLGT2]

Originally Posted by 904VT

Love your collection Martin, congrats!

I know exactly how you feel. It's kind of how the classic Enzo cars went that were meant to drive and enjoy, but at a certain point became too collector type to fully enjoy on the road and track. On a somewhat related note, I was looking at the new M4 announcement from BMW and just was thinking similar. While much less expensive/value than supercars, it just feels the M3/4 was never meant to be a $100k luxury car that was babied. Starting to feel the basic 911 is going that way too unfortunately and losing some essence.

Btw the 997 GT2 may be the best modern Porsche of all time. Imo at least.

Yea interesting times !

You know whats funny is I had similar convo with my best friend/car buddy about the M's last night and 911's..

We were saying how 10-15 years ago, when we had M3's and supras the most expensive crazy cars then would be like a 360 modena in 2005, 996tt at 110 new

Now I just saw a M5 CS for 230 LOL

I think new m3/4 while looks are very opinionated, priced very well for a modern performance car especially with a manual , awd and new tech !!!! They haven't jumped THAT far up from where they were
Meanwhile a 991 Turbo S now 992 Turbo s 225-300? YEA NO

And thanks for compliment , just miss talking about real enthusiast stuff now a days!

[SDGT3]

Posted this in another thread but a friend of mine in SoCal dropped off his car for service at a Porsche dealer and wandered around the showroom for a couple minutes.

2022 GT3 base: $160k
Fully optioned with shark blue paint: $216k
Dealer mark up: $115,000
Full price before tax and license: $331,000
With tax and license: ~ $363,000

Not an RS either. As with Rolex, at that level, you're looking at a different marque.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by Spartacus

I’m hoping the 992s push 991 prices down a bit. Seems like not any time soon, unfortunately.

I have a 991 Cab, which I love. I’m not concerned with resale value but wonder if 991s will one day become collectible as the last of the non-turbos, like the 993s are for being the last of the oil (air) cooled engines.

[V25V]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

Posted this in another thread but a friend of mine in SoCal dropped off his car for service at a Porsche dealer and wandered around the showroom for a couple minutes.

2022 GT3 base: $160k
Fully optioned with shark blue paint: $216k
Dealer mark up: $115,000
Full price before tax and license: $331,000
With tax and license: ~ $363,000

Not an RS either. As with Rolex, at that level, you're looking at a different marque.

These ADM's are utterly ridiculous.

[TRS1]

Originally Posted by iLLGT2

Im actually kind of pissed at the market because I bought my machines to do road trips, track stuff, drive the hell out of them... all this market has done is make me realize how much these cars aren't worth the values LOL, goes for watch prices too
\Yes im fortunate to be on the upside of this all, but its annoying being a car guy first before all of of this craziness

My new Huracan STO coming is stupid over asking at the moment and has me thinking hmm.... my huracan evo spyder way over

my 997 GT2 id never think of tracking at this point or even modding extensively like I did in the past as they are approaching 300k + range

Oh well, im very thankful regardless !!!!!

Fantastic 997 GT2. Love to see more picks.

[Sperry]

Originally Posted by tudorbaja27

And the world is round...

Says who?

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by Atone

Now here is where you and I part ways. Yesterday, as all in SoCal know, was cold and wet. At one point I even got chilly letting the dog out, thank god I was only out for a few min or who knows what may have happened. Now I had to work all day but very much wanted to make it a lazy Sunday with a fire and some movies (not Dune). Instead I barely clung to life in what we can all agree were dire circumstances . . . 50 degrees 15-20kt winds. I am grateful for the rain however

Now you knew I’d chime in Jesse … you definitely need a good quality HH leather jacket to take off that chill

[Blansky]

Originally Posted by Sperry

Says who?

This picture is obviously taken by a great photographer who just happened to be in the right place at the right time, BUT it doesn't depict that the Earth is flat.

It's merely at the point where the Atlantic and the Pacific intersect, and since the Pacific is higher than the Atlantic and it's stormy it looks this way.

Hope this helps.

Oh wait....is that a UFO in the distance???

[Atone]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Now you knew I’d chime in Jesse … you definitely need a good quality HH leather jacket to take off that chill

This was down jacket, thermals and pray weather. I think leather would have frozen and cracked TBH

[CoveWatch]

Markups are nuts right now.. buddy of mine was getting a normal base x3 and they started with $7k over

Was considering selling the 991.2 because I just hardly get to drive it and I'm up like 25% from what I paid.. but seeing the craziness, I'm scared if I ever wanted one back, or something similar, I'd be in an undesirable position.

[TRS1]

Originally Posted by CoveWatch

Markups are nuts right now.. buddy of mine was getting a normal base x3 and they started with $7k over

Was considering selling the 991.2 because I just hardly get to drive it and I'm up like 25% from what I paid.. but seeing the craziness, I'm scared if I ever wanted one back, or something similar, I'd be in an undesirable position.

Indeed. Like selling your house, what would you replace it with? Pretty much a zero sum game.

[Tricolore66]

Cabs always seem unloved value-wise compared to coupes so I’d guess not. Check 993 and 3.2 pricing and all the bargains are cabriolets.

Originally Posted by Chiboy

I have a 991 Cab, which I love. I’m not concerned with resale value but wonder if 991s will one day become collectible as the last of the non-turbos, like the 993s are for being the last of the oil (air) cooled engines.