Rolex in the 80s and 90s

[kinggiamma]

Dear friends.

I have been chatting with a friend of mine here in Italy and he mentioned to me that the current market scenario where flipped Rolexes are commonly traded and sold was just not there in the 80s and 90s.

He mentioned to me that the number of available pieces in the used market was very low as most of the purchased watches were to be kept for a lifetime. So the used watches market was limited only to real few vintage pieces and the used market for watches available at retail was just not there and in any case a very poor market. What is your experience? How was the Rolex market and experience in the 80s and 90s?

[padi56]

Originally Posted by kinggiamma

Dear friends.

I have been chatting with a friend of mine here in Italy and he mentioned to me that the current market scenario where flipped Rolexes are commonly traded and sold was just not there in the 80s and 90s.

He mentioned to me that the number of available pieces in the used market was very low as most of the purchased watches were to be kept for a lifetime. So the used watches market was limited only to real few vintage pieces and the used market for watches available at retail was just not there and in any case a very poor market. What is your experience? How was the Rolex market and experience in the 80s and 90s?

Well back then they bought watches to wear and enjoy, and even back then Rolex were expensive.But today by many Rolex are no longer watches now just little more than £££$$$€€€ objects.And back then there were used Rolex for sale at sensible prices,but mainly since the net that has changed a lot.Now we have a lot of hype and sellers quoting things like rare ,mistake dials,flat four fonts,Mk1 Mk2 and any other Mk in between or slightly different colours in bezels etc to drive prices up.And so called social media to drive the hype higher to those that have lost the use of there own brain to think for themselves.

[fskywalker]

Originally Posted by padi56

And so called social media to drive the hype higher to those that have lost the use of there own brain to think for themselves.

So true!



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[bp1000]

2 sides of the modern hype for me.

The guys in it to make a profit on their watches. These guys are fast cash guys, mix in all circles, buy and selling for profit, they have woken up to the margins in watches. They probably represent a small minority of owners but buy and sell a lot.

Then you have the other side of the hype. The "influencers" and like attractors. Usually have a fairly large audience due to some low grade reality tv show, brand association, promotion and use instagram mainly as their platform. These guys will do anything and pay anything to get a Rolex on the wrist. Just like a car, bag, shoes etc..

Other wannabe influencers follow the trend and it becomes like a chain reaction. All these accounts have thousands of followers so it encourages a viral trickle down effect of copycats.

Back in the 80's and 90's it was cool just to be cool and you lived within your means, within your own bubble. These days "cool" is measured by likes and the more obscure and departed from reality you are, the more likes you receive. Luxury and faking it goes hand in hand.

Absolutely ridiculous piece of society we have. I work in online tech and have done since 2000 and I think its one of the worst things to have happened in modern history.

[BloodyElbow]

Back in the 90s watch collecting was a blast. Fakes or frankens were not a thing and you could find everything but a Daytona at most ADs. One of my favorite things to do was to hit the local pawn shops to see what Rolex’s were new. It was not uncommon to find Subs, GMTs, Daytona’s and DDs. My collection is all 5 digits BTW.

[SN13]

Even in the early 2010s it wasn't bad.

I remember scouring the early watchrecon in 2012/2013 and seeing dozens of listings for 5 digits that would now seem like a fantasy.

16570 - $3k
16610 - $4k
16750 - $4.5k

Daytonas sitting for $7-8k.

For 60 years Rolex were normal.

For 5 years they've been abnormal.

But people hoping to keep prices headed one way, will say that the past 5 years are normal now....

Maybe. But I doubt.

[RKTINC1]

I bought a new DateJust in 1996 as a reward for myself. Worked with my local AD. Ordered it exactly how I wanted it. Got a nice discount and paid $3,600. I bought three more watches and my wife's engagement ring from he and his family. Always enjoyable to stop in and say hello.

Fast forward to today. Rolex pulled his franchise a few years back. I refuse to pay gray market prices, I buy from an AD when I can but it is difficult to purchase anything. I most recent relationship AD said he wasn't sure he could source a gold sub for me when I inquired.

I have been spending my funds on other expensive toys when I want to splurge the last few years. Lots of folks feel the same. The grays help move the slow inventory for the AD which makes Rolex money so I see nothing changing.

[brandrea]

Ah, those were the days. They couldn’t give Daytona’s away, and GMT’s and Sub’s were just sitting in the display cases which were fully stocked.

[GB-man]

Add the 2000s to that list lol this era began mid 2010s with social media being the primary but not only catalyst.

I use to get 20% off any steel Rolex except the Daytona as recent as 2014.

[Jerrocop]

I agree that social media, influencers, and flippers have made the environment difficult, especially for those whose only wish is to purchase a new timepiece from an AD and enjoy it for the foreseeable future.

Thinking back to the 80's and 90's. I can't ever remember a time when you could walk into an AD and see a GMT in the case. Those have always been hot items. Sometimes you'd see an Explorer (I or II), Submariners were frequently in the case it seemed. SeaDwellers and Daytonas were always available.

[ArtNouveau]

I bought my first two Rolex in ‘84 and ‘86. Both Datejusts both readily available and a discount from MSRP was a given. There was a market for used ones, I traded in the SS for a tutone, and pawnshops were full of them.
They were known then as “Texas Timex,” everyone with a modicum of success had a DJ or DD. And yes there were counterfeits, although not to the worrisome amount/quality you see today.
Biggest difference I remember too was how common AD’s were. Bought both of mine at Corrigan’s Jewelers, a now defunct chain that figures into the NASA/Speedmaster story. Every small town had a dealer. There was one in my parents’ retirement town of 3000.

[NoLightsWrigley]

Back in the day most people bought their Rolex new from the AD, and you could usually work out a small discount. There weren't really too many gray market sellers, just pawn shops here and there would get an occasional Rolex. After the "Black Monday" stock market crash on October 19, 1987 many people had to unload their Rolexes to cover their margin calls and that is when many of the gray market sellers and flippers were born.

[Norbert]

But you know what? The modern Rolex is such a huge leap in quality, maybe people just like them more today than they did in the 80s? For example, the stamped steel bracelets.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Norbert

But you know what? The modern Rolex is such a huge leap in quality, maybe people just like them more today than they did in the 80s? For example, the stamped steel bracelets.

No one knew the difference as all bracelets and clasp were that way. In fact the Rolex bracelet were considered very high quality and durable. Today’s Rolex watch is manufactured to today’s industry standard that many like Omega, etc.. has forced Rolex to step up and match. Manufacturing standards are just better and cheaper to achieve by the entire industry at all price levels of watches. Today’s Rolex buyer is very different and a slave to social media pressure and yet a still high amount know nothing about watches other than brand recognition. There is so much more information available now and yet the Rolex buyer is perhaps less educated about watches than in the 80’s when you had to really work and make a effort for horological knowledge.
There is so much easy and obtainable knowledge on models and movements yet we still get such basic questions like “what watch should I buy?”, which clearly indicates a searching need for peer approval over knowing your own personal style and taste.
One would think spending so much money on a product you would feel obligated to do your own research and know your personal style enough before even even thinking about making a purchase.

In the 80’s we bought a watch because we liked the look of it and could afford it. That’s as complicated as it got. “Resale value” was a salesman pitch to move product for those that felt uneasy to spend so much on a mechanical watch.

[CKLinLA]

Originally Posted by kinggiamma

Dear friends.

I have been chatting with a friend of mine here in Italy and he mentioned to me that the current market scenario where flipped Rolexes are commonly traded and sold was just not there in the 80s and 90s.

He mentioned to me that the number of available pieces in the used market was very low as most of the purchased watches were to be kept for a lifetime. So the used watches market was limited only to real few vintage pieces and the used market for watches available at retail was just not there and in any case a very poor market. What is your experience? How was the Rolex market and experience in the 80s and 90s?

The current situation where you generally cannot buy the watch you want from an AD, whether intended or not by Rolex, is not logical or good.

For me, it drives me to consider other options, rather than seek the watch of interest on the grey market.

[RedGlasses]

In 2004 my neighbor showed me his white gold daytona, i got hooked!! I researched and found out it would be difficult to get the 16520 black dial. But I tried, and when I finally managed to get my Daytona, it was the newest version, 116520. Which I still owns. Back in the 2010s you could spot submariners, gmts, etc or even highly desired Pateks. I'm not old enough to know about the 80s and 90s market but everything from that period seemed easier and more enjoyable. Internet came up and made everything available to anyone, anywhere. Which destroys human relations. That's why I highly encourage Rolex fans to go talk to your ADs and build a relationship. Be patient. And do not buy a Rolex because of its value or potential flip, but only for you to enjoy as long as possible. It's collectible watches that don't deserve the quick flip scheme. Imho.

[Norbert]

Originally Posted by Mystro

One would think spending so much money on a product you would feel obligated to do your own research and know your personal style enough before even even thinking about making a purchase.

In the 80’s we bought a watch because we liked the look of it and could afford it. That’s as complicated as it got.

So you're saying its the same. 80's buyer and today's buyer.

[Mystro]

Originally Posted by Norbert

So you're saying its the same. 80's buyer and today's buyer.

Just the opposite. In the 80’s we didn’t ask a group of people what watch we should buy or what watch would hold its value more. We walked into a AD , tried on a bunch of watches and left with the one watch we liked the look of the most. The most complicated issue was if we could afford it and perhaps what’s the best discount we could get. It couldn’t be any simpler.

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by SN13

Even in the early 2010s it wasn't bad.

I remember scouring the early watchrecon in 2012/2013 and seeing dozens of listings for 5 digits that would now seem like a fantasy.

16570 - $3k
16610 - $4k
16750 - $4.5k

Daytonas sitting for $7-8k.

For 60 years Rolex were normal.

For 5 years they've been abnormal.

But people hoping to keep prices headed one way, will say that the past 5 years are normal now....

Maybe. But I doubt.

So true. In the 90s all the way up to 2012 and 2013 I would stop into ADs whenever I was at the mall and I would try on lots of different watches. I got busy after that and sort of sidelined all of that. I remember in 2012 there was an AD here that sold customer returns and sitting in the case, among all of the other stainless models, were a black and white Daytona, and 3 polar 16570s to choose from, all for $3,500. The Daytona was $9K and a friend of mine bought it. For the polars, one was a new old stock with a holes case and the other two had 3186 movements. I remember thinking OK, $3500 isn't bad but I can do better. I was negotiating with a grey dealer here on this board and I got down to $3,175 but didn't end up getting it because I wanted to get it for $3,000 flat. Man, if I could use a time machine I would go back to that store and buy up all of their pieces, plus every grey dealer's inventory here!

[johnliley]

Ahh the good ole days. I do remember being offered a discount without asking for it. In fact each Rolex I bought from my AD other than the one I special ordered my RB 16713 were purchased with a discount. There was a Daytona waiting list and I've posted before that when the economy crumbled in 2008 and when my AD lost his license with Rolex I was offered a black and a white but alas the crash had happened and house payments and food were more important. But I also walked into Tourneau in Vegas in 06 and bought the OG Kermit right out of the case. LOL. Social Media and hyped up hype have really ruined it for many of us. And yes to the point the bracelets and clasp were standard fair back then. I love them. My collection is 4 and 5 digits. Most bought new or what us old folks used to called second hand or "used". ;) because they were cheaper.

JL

[jlovda]

My story is from the 70's but it sounds the same. I got married in 76. My fiancé asked me what I wanted as her wedding gift to me. It was a Rolex GMT with the red/blue bezel. We went to jewelry building on Wabash in Chicago to pick out her engagement diamond. At the conclusion of that transaction the salesman asked me if there was anything else we might be interested in. I mentioned the Rolex. He got one for us in a week and at a good discount ($550). When I think back I had no real knowledge regarding "AD's" or warrantees. I considered the watch to be exactly the same as a pair of diamond earrings, a gold chain or other jewelry. Maybe I'm lucky I never needed service. But it was only one year anyway.

[FTX I]

Everything was better back then. Alright maybe not.

[Tricolore66]

I bought my first Rolex, a 36 DJ stainless with fluted bezel on jubillee in 1987 for $1,600. I traded it even for a new Speedmaster in 1998, which was around $3k, and thought I'd hit the lottery! I bought an exceptional, original 5513 in around 1999 for $2k, still have it. In 2007 I bought a 16600 SD, Z-series (last year) BNIB from a grey dealer for $3,600.
Still have that one too. SD's were actually cheaper than Subs for a long time, inexplicably. About the only watches that were hard to get back then (late 80's to around 2000) were Daytona's. Just prior to the ceramic Daytona it seems like people were able to find them occasionally sitting in display cases for a year or two.

When Tudor was pulling out of the US market back around 2000 or so, you could buy Tudor Tiger chrono's for something like 40% or more off, well under $2k. I always wished I would have got one back then.

GMT's were kind of the Submariner's stepbrother for the longest time. You could always buy them for less than Subs, and Pepsi and Coke bezels were no big deal at all. It wasn't until the GMT-ceramic, particularly the Blue/Black, that they got much attention.

It seems like vintage was a lot more popular, but we didn't really call it vintage back then. If you were a watch guy you really didn't care if it was old or new, probably because the watches changed very little for several decades. Most of today's buyers have little regard for watchmaking or vintage pieces, and it's mostly about bragging rights and their social media feed. It has evolved into something very different today and is no longer what I would consider a "hobby." I still love watches but there's no question it's not as much fun as it used to be.

[superpop]

Used to hand out Rolex Subs at our national sales meetings for anyone who hit their number. Probably handed out 20-30 at a time. Stopped doing that a long time ago.

[Dr. Robert]

I miss the 60s, I miss the Fillmore, the Avalon & Winterland. And Rolex prices.... I bought one in Hong Kong in 1968! Those were the days

[Mendota]

All of this is so true. I remember spending hours on Atlantic Time and Pacific Time in 2002 looking for a milestone birthday gift for myself, which were two of the largest grey dealers owned by the same guy. Over on Timezone, when it was a bulletin board format, there was a classifieds section and I remember thinking that I could get a 16610 sub for $3,100 new at an AD, or I could buy it used over there on the classifieds for less. The Explorer 1 was about $2,500 new. I didn't trust it though and it wasn't as sophisticated as this site here has become. Both Atlantic Time and Pacific Time had them new at a nice discount, but I wasn't totally convinced about online shopping so I didn't pull the trigger. Back then the greys always sold product at a nice discount to the AD, and in exchange for no box and warranty paperwork you got a good discount with no sales tax. It was a trade off.

I think Atlantic Time and Pacific Time morphed into Swiss Wrist, if I am not mistaken.

[Brich436]

Bought my first one (16234) in 2003 at 10% discount for $3600. Display case was full and they ordered the model I wanted with the sunburst blue dial.

Second one was purchased in 2010 (16570) and got 12% off of it. Was sitting in the display case for a while. They had all the sport models except the Daytona for sale and out on display. They would only do 5% discount on the 16610 due to popularity but I passed on it.

Fourth one was a lady datejust I bought for my wife in 2011. 18% off retail and no tax. Looked at the Hulk which they told me was very unpopular. Ha.

Fifth one was in 2019. Had to pay full boat plus taxes and had to wait for it after I asked my guy for the 116610LN Sub-C. They have all the desirable sport models in the back and the owner has to ok the sale of any of them.


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[Moondoggy]

90’s where amazing ALL models in display case often I actually remember walking in one day wanted the seadweller but didn’t bring my check book my AD said just take it now and come back this week with a check to pay different days.

[Mendota]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

90’s where amazing ALL models in display case often I actually remember walking in one day wanted the seadweller but didn’t bring my check book my AD said just take it now and come back this week with a check to pay different days.

Ha ha, that's so awesome! Like realizing you forgot your wallet after filling up at the local gas station. Nah, we know you are good for it. Just come back when you can with the money.

[gwozhog]

I remember fall of 2011 when Jarred Jewelers lost their AD privelage. The sold All their Rolex watches 40 percent off. Snagged a nice yachtmaster for the wife that year. Also Could have bought a brand new Day Date for 15k. Kicking myself now passing on that one.