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Old 25 March 2023, 05:29 AM   #1
AP5402
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Icon20 AP 5402 BA…should I let AP complete the $7K service and replace the original hands

I just received the proposal from Audemars PK on servicing and restoring a 1972 original 5402BA. Most of the experts I have consulted with have advised me against allowing any visible parts to be exchanged. The problem is that AP will not allow me to make that decision. The hands can no longer be produced the same way because the material has been banned in Switzerland. And not only do they insist I replace the hands (that are not broken), they will not return them to me. They want to keep them in their own archives, and, by the way, will not compensate me for that at all. It feels like an over-step to me. I am the owner of the watch and should be able to make the decision to replace a working part for aesthetics and furthermore, forcing me to let them keep the hands?? it just doesn’t sit well with me. Anyone have any advice? I will eventually be selling this watch and want the new owner to make those decisions. I’d also like the watch to be in good working condition when I sell it as that seems to me to make it more valuable. But if I don’t let AP do the service then what are my options? I’m sure anybody who collects a piece like this will have their own watch guy and will appreciate getting to make their own choices… and once I do it, it’s irreversible so it seems to me I should wait. Ugh. I need help.
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Old 25 March 2023, 07:39 AM   #2
puckybadger
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Who is in possession of the watch? If AP, I would demand it's return in it's original condition as received
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Old 25 March 2023, 09:49 AM   #3
dh1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP5402 View Post
I just received the proposal from Audemars PK on servicing and restoring a 1972 original 5402BA. Most of the experts I have consulted with have advised me against allowing any visible parts to be exchanged. The problem is that AP will not allow me to make that decision. ...
And not only do they insist I replace the hands (that are not broken), they will not return them to me. They want to keep them in their own archives, and, by the way, will not compensate me for that at all. It feels like an over-step to me.
Could you clarify what you mean by "AP will not allow me to make that decision" and "they insist I replace the hands"? Did they give a reason?

I had my 5402ST sent for heritage service in 2021 and documented my experience here in a past post in this forum.
  • If you replace a part they will indeed retain the originals in their archive to avoid counterfeits / fakery / etc. The only 5402 part they'll return after replacing is the bracelet.
  • In my case the hands had crumbling tritium lume. They would not re-lume them or refurbish as is. They would only replace. But I declined and said "don't touch the hands". If I declined they would not warranty the movement against damage from micro-abrasive lume but I waived this.
  • I had an original AP unsigned crown and they suggested replacing with a new part (which they could actually make unsigned) to achieve water resistance. I declined that as well and waived water resistance.

Has their policy changed since then?
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Old 25 March 2023, 10:10 AM   #4
AP5402
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AP has it

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Originally Posted by puckybadger View Post
Who is in possession of the watch? If AP, I would demand it's return in it's original condition as received
It is at AP in Switzerland
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Old 25 March 2023, 10:21 AM   #5
AP5402
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Could you clarify what you mean by "AP will not allow me to make that decision" and "they insist I replace the hands"? Did they give a
  • If you replace a part they will indeed retain the originals in their archive to avoid counterfeits / fakery / etc. The only 5402 part they'll return after replacing is the bracelet.
  • In my case the hands had crumbling tritium lume. They would not re-lume them or refurbish as is. They would only replace. But I declined and said "don't touch the hands". If I declined they would not warranty the movement against damage from micro-abrasive lume but I waived this.
  • I had an original AP unsigned crown and they suggested replacing with a new part (which they could actually make unsigned) to achieve water resistance. I declined that as well and waived water resistance.

Has their policy changed since then?
I believe the policy has changed. The letter I received states…

“Should you wish to refuse the exchange of any of the necessary components, we will not be able to proceed with the requested services.”

As for why, the letter and information did not give specifics. They state plainly that the crown will be replaced, and “if necessary” the hands will be as well.

I don’t really buy this whole notion of not returning them to me because they don’t want fakes reproduced. They are mine. If they are in such bad shape that they have to be replaced, then why would somebody use them on a reproduction. I don’t get it.

I really appreciate the info!!
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Old 25 March 2023, 11:57 AM   #6
dh1
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I believe the policy has changed. The letter I received states…

“Should you wish to refuse the exchange of any of the necessary components, we will not be able to proceed with the requested services.”

As for why, the letter and information did not give specifics. They state plainly that the crown will be replaced, and “if necessary” the hands will be as well.
I'd push them on which of "the requested services" makes it "necessary" for the hands to be replaced.

Maybe you can change the request to be e.g. movement only or case / bracelet refinishing only, etc.?
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Old 25 March 2023, 07:17 PM   #7
deuxani
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You could ask for the watch back, let a skilled watchmaker with years of AP experience remove the hands for you and then send the watch to AP without the hands, let them service it, put in new hands and then afterwards let the local watchmaker put in the old hands again
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Old 25 March 2023, 07:50 PM   #8
l_chissle
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You could ask for the watch back, let a skilled watchmaker with years of AP experience remove the hands for you and then send the watch to AP without the hands, let them service it, put in new hands and then afterwards let the local watchmaker put in the old hands again
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Old 26 March 2023, 12:48 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP5402 View Post
I believe the policy has changed. The letter I received states…

“Should you wish to refuse the exchange of any of the necessary components, we will not be able to proceed with the requested services.”

As for why, the letter and information did not give specifics. They state plainly that the crown will be replaced, and “if necessary” the hands will be as well.

I don’t really buy this whole notion of not returning them to me because they don’t want fakes reproduced. They are mine. If they are in such bad shape that they have to be replaced, then why would somebody use them on a reproduction. I don’t get it.

I really appreciate the info!!
Additionally, because tritium is so old, there is always a risk of cracking the lume in removing the hands — no matter how small. If hands are cracked to begin with, that risk increases to crumbling lume. I think AP is just covering their bases here. They don’t want to pull of the hands and risk further damage, and so would rather give you new hands. If you can communicate to the service center, that you understand the risks, they might allow for it. Keep us posted!
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Old 26 March 2023, 07:49 AM   #10
dh1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deuxani View Post
You could ask for the watch back, let a skilled watchmaker with years of AP experience remove the hands for you and then send the watch to AP without the hands, let them service it, put in new hands and then afterwards let the local watchmaker put in the old hands again
I feel like if you are arguing with them about keeping the original hands, then reach an impasse, then you send it right back to them again without the hands they might notice what you did :-)

I'm not sure whether they would refuse service at that point or just think you're shameless.

Another possibility is to let someone else say they bought it but it didn't come with hands...
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Old 26 March 2023, 09:05 AM   #11
AP5402
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I’m really bummed…would love to have the watch serviced by the foremost experts who work on 5402s at AP. I’m not trying to pull a fast one, just really want to maintain the integrity of the original watch. So for reasons I don’t understand, there is absolutely no option to waive certain things. Across the board I’m told that replacing parts will diminish the value so I am declining all work. Thanks for the input.
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Old 26 March 2023, 09:27 AM   #12
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Across the board I’m told that replacing parts will diminish the value so I am declining all work. Thanks for the input.
Did you ask them what work they could do without replacing the hands?
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Old 26 March 2023, 09:42 AM   #13
AP5402
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Did you ask them what work they could do without replacing the hands?
They won’t do any work on it at all if I say no to allowing them to replace parts.
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Old 26 March 2023, 10:11 AM   #14
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Send it to LA Watch Works. It’ll come back perfect
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Old 26 March 2023, 12:57 PM   #15
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If you intend on selling it anyway, why service it at all?
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Old 28 March 2023, 01:49 AM   #16
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Old 29 March 2023, 12:13 PM   #17
Willyjo
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I wouldn’t let them touch it under these circumstances. The provenance and original parts are critical. Agree with others that you are better off finding an independent skilled watch maker to service it.


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Old 29 March 2023, 11:53 PM   #18
rolexandlange
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As someone who has shopped for a 5402, I can tell you most examples have replaced hands, and I'd have paid a premium for originality. Can we get some photos please?
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