The Rolex Forums   The Rolex Watch

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX


Go Back   Rolex Forums - Rolex Watch Forum > Rolex & Tudor Watch Topics > Rolex General Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 21 March 2023, 11:40 PM   #61
Driver8
"TRF" Member
 
Driver8's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2,731
Quote:
Originally Posted by yesnaya View Post
I think it makes sense to trade the LN for something else given that you have the LV. Now the question is: what do you want to add?

If you really want the 321 thats a fine choice. You are in the right ballpark price wise between the sales value of your LN and the grey market value of the 321. You can easily compare various grey dealers to maximize the deal.

But if I was going that route i'd rather a daytona.

The 321 is certainly something special given what it represents but they've made so many speedmasters, so many limited editions and variations... Personally I'm over it. And I'm sure it's an amazing watch... and from a couple feet away it looks exactly like another watch of the same brand and collection that sells at retail for less than half the price. No thanks.
I think this speaks more about why someone decides to buy a watch - i.e. for what other people think of it, or for the personal enjoyment of owning and wearing something special. If it's the former, then yes the 321 does indeed look very similar to the vast majority of other Speedmasters and therefore isn't "worth it". But if it's the latter then there's really no substitute if you want the ultimate heritage Speedmaster.

Personally I'm "on the list" for a 321 with my local Omega AD, but will probably have to go grey for it, as I'm told this AD has never been sent a single 321 despite having myself and 3 others waiting for one. So if I was looking to sell a Sub to fund a 321 like the OP is, I'd definitely do the deal (although I'd be more comfortable putting no more than 5k in on top).
__________________
Rolex - 116710BLNR : 116610LN : 116622 : 116334 : 14060M
(Plus - Glashutte Original, Breitling, Omega, IWC, Tag Heuer, Doxa, Sinn, Seiko, G-Shock + micros)
Driver8 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21 March 2023, 11:41 PM   #62
brandrea
2024 Pledge Member
 
brandrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 73,125
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACKHORSE 6 View Post
Fair enough.

Acknowledging your caveat, I still wouldn’t put that much coin into a steel Speedy.

But the Speedmaster is a great watch. It was my one and only for about 8 years before I got my Rolex. I still wear and enjoy it. Maybe I need to have another look into the Speedy lineup because in my mind they occupy a price point well below Rolex, but they punch above their weight class. My question about this watch is if that analogy still holds. If it does, then pay all means go for it!


IMHO the Speedmaster lost price altitude to Rolex over the decades. At one time they were priced about the same

That said, I hear you. In the case of the 321 it’s a lot of money (relatively speaking), so you really have to love the history of the 321 movement, the NASA history and the “hand assembled” uniqueness to see the value proposition. Some have suggested that the finishing and movement is on par with the some of the holy trinity … that may be a stretch or not. I’m not really a haute horology kind of guy, but I do appreciate all of the rest.

It’s definitely not for everyone, and I’m certainly not suggesting it should be
brandrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 12:37 AM   #63
logo
"TRF" Member
 
logo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: North America
Posts: 2,300
It’s a bit funny reading where people “price” the 321, just because it looks like the standard 3861 from afar. I could show you several cheap watches that look just like a submariner, but yet here we are on a forum where everyone of us pays for that extra bit of detail and authenticity.

Consider why the 321 is expensive:
- it’s an entirely new case, crystal, bracelet and dial design not borrowed from any other current Speedmaster (designed based on scans of Gene Cernan’s own personal watch). The attention to detail and finishing on the 321 is superior to the standard 3861.
- “new” 321 movement, coated in gold, hand assembled by one watch maker.
- only ~2000 stainless steel models in circulation over 2-3 years.
- at that low volume, I’m surprised the MSRP is only $14k - the Canopus gold version is $80k by comparison.
- look at other watches with a Lemania 2310 based movement (Patek 5070, vacheron cornes de vache). I need not explain that prices on these are in a different ballpark altogether yet the 321 IS the base for those movements. The Patek goes for $80k+ now, with a steel cornes de vache MSRP around $40k - again, the omega is a bargain.

I understand the temptation to say this watch is not worth its price because it looks like a 3861 from afar, and the 3861 is much lower price (which I believe is also underpriced). I also understand that at $14k MSRP it’s right in line with the Daytona, so that’s the natural comparator. However, the detail in this watch, is indeed something very special - sort of like how a Patek 5078g looks very similar to a Patek 5196p from afar - that ain’t the same watch lol.
logo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 04:48 AM   #64
Santiago32
"TRF" Member
 
Santiago32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Real Name: Jim
Location: UTC/GMT -7 hours
Watch: BLRO-LV-EXP1-BB58
Posts: 1,664
For anyone that ares I ended up pulling the trigger. Should have the watch later this week.

I'm stoked!

Thank you to those that provided feedback. I agree with the consensues that it's a very special movement and overall watch and I think it will fit nicely in my collection.
__________________
instagram: santiagowatchcollector
Santiago32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 04:52 AM   #65
javier
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Argentina
Posts: 761
Quote:
Originally Posted by btinl View Post
Straight trade, yes. Add $7k? Absolutely not.
This
javier is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 04:52 AM   #66
brandrea
2024 Pledge Member
 
brandrea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Real Name: Brian (TBone)
Location: canada
Watch: es make me smile
Posts: 73,125
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago32 View Post
For anyone that ares I ended up pulling the trigger. Should have the watch later this week.

I'm stoked!

Thank you to those that provided feedback. I agree with the consensues that it's a very special movement and overall watch and I think it will fit nicely in my collection.
Congratulations Jim, eager to hear your thoughts
brandrea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 05:38 AM   #67
BLACKHORSE 6
"TRF" Member
 
BLACKHORSE 6's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Real Name: Dave
Location: USA
Watch: Rolex SS Daytona
Posts: 2,621
Congrats!
BLACKHORSE 6 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 06:37 AM   #68
knighty88
2024 Pledge Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: London
Watch: Explorer 214270
Posts: 461
Congrats! I think you did the right thing, and you’ll still have the LV to scratch that itch.

I think the 321 will probably spend more time off the wrist, just so you can admire the movement through the cashback
knighty88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 07:11 AM   #69
KdPg
Banned
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 110
Go ahead with the trade.
KdPg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 07:39 AM   #70
Bananass
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: SF
Watch: 126710BLNR
Posts: 69
7k + the 126610 seems a bit off to me. If a 126610 goes for 14 grey and a 321 goes for 18-19.. I’d rather sell the 126610 and buy the speedy. I’m assuming that you can’t just go grab the 321 for retail (unsure).
Bananass is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 07:46 AM   #71
Cassidyanne
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2022
Location: Camarillo
Posts: 361
Buy a 3861 and keep the sub. Other than a very limited amount of Omega enthusiasts, nobody knows who cares about the difference between the Ed White and the regular Speedy Pro. If you do, that’s a different matter, then, make the trade.
Cassidyanne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 07:55 AM   #72
7enderbender
"TRF" Member
 
7enderbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 889
Hm. Tough one. I’m really not a fan of either (6 digit and 321). And the trade doesn’t seem right form a value perspective. I would just go to an Omega Boutique and see when you can get one at retail if that’s where your heart is. They do come up. I was offered one (in Switzerland) but then passed because there are too many aspects about it that I didn’t like to justify the price. And I love Speedmasters. If it was me I’d sell the six digit sun and buy a five digit no date or Sea Dweller and a vintage Speedy with proper specs.
7enderbender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 07:58 AM   #73
7enderbender
"TRF" Member
 
7enderbender's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: USA
Posts: 889
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cassidyanne View Post
Buy a 3861 and keep the sub. Other than a very limited amount of Omega enthusiasts, nobody knows who cares about the difference between the Ed White and the regular Speedy Pro. If you do, that’s a different matter, then, make the trade.
In fairness, it shouldn’t matter what others think or notice. The 321 is about the reissued movement. That’s the great part. The rest of the watch in my opinion is butchered. So is the 3861 I think.
I’d go find a big box 1861, a vintage 861 or (a bit more tricky and expensive) a vintage pre-moon 321 model.
7enderbender is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 08:05 AM   #74
faz
"TRF" Member
 
faz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Faz
Location: Bay Area, CA
Watch: like'em all
Posts: 4,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by logo View Post
It’s a bit funny reading where people “price” the 321, just because it looks like the standard 3861 from afar. I could show you several cheap watches that look just like a submariner, but yet here we are on a forum where everyone of us pays for that extra bit of detail and authenticity.

Consider why the 321 is expensive:
- it’s an entirely new case, crystal, bracelet and dial design not borrowed from any other current Speedmaster (designed based on scans of Gene Cernan’s own personal watch). The attention to detail and finishing on the 321 is superior to the standard 3861.
- “new” 321 movement, coated in gold, hand assembled by one watch maker.
- only ~2000 stainless steel models in circulation over 2-3 years.
- at that low volume, I’m surprised the MSRP is only $14k - the Canopus gold version is $80k by comparison.
- look at other watches with a Lemania 2310 based movement (Patek 5070, vacheron cornes de vache). I need not explain that prices on these are in a different ballpark altogether yet the 321 IS the base for those movements. The Patek goes for $80k+ now, with a steel cornes de vache MSRP around $40k - again, the omega is a bargain.

I understand the temptation to say this watch is not worth its price because it looks like a 3861 from afar, and the 3861 is much lower price (which I believe is also underpriced). I also understand that at $14k MSRP it’s right in line with the Daytona, so that’s the natural comparator. However, the detail in this watch, is indeed something very special - sort of like how a Patek 5078g looks very similar to a Patek 5196p from afar - that ain’t the same watch lol.
I enjoyed reading your post and learned a lot from it. Thank you.
__________________
-Faz

Instagram @fazmoto
faz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 08:13 AM   #75
logo
"TRF" Member
 
logo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: North America
Posts: 2,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by faz View Post
I enjoyed reading your post and learned a lot from it. Thank you.
Thanks. I borrowed it from my original 321 incoming post last year in the Omega section. If interested, there’s more detail and history summarized there: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=846386
logo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 08:27 AM   #76
yorkzilla
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2021
Real Name: Greg
Location: Annapolis, MD
Posts: 283
Congratulations, Santiago32! I’m sure you’ll appreciate it as much as I do. My NEW 321 gets a lot of wrist time. Just look at the very fine detail of the ceramic bezel and inlay. Flip to the back and get lost in the ticking of the movement. Press the pushers for the fine tight feeling. It may look like other Speedies, but those who know, KNOW. Honestly, I see it on my wrist more than my black Daytona 116520.
__________________
Rolexes, Jaeger-LeCoultre, Breguet, Blancpain, Omegas, Breitling, Zenith, Cartier, Heuers, Longines, Bell & Ross, Laco, Doxa, Zodiac, Glycine, Movado, Seikos, Casios, Victorinox, and Tugaris.
yorkzilla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22 March 2023, 08:46 AM   #77
faz
"TRF" Member
 
faz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Real Name: Faz
Location: Bay Area, CA
Watch: like'em all
Posts: 4,655
Quote:
Originally Posted by logo View Post
Thanks. I borrowed it from my original 321 incoming post last year in the Omega section. If interested, there’s more detail and history summarized there: https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=846386
Thanks for the link, great write up and photos indeed. Now I want to buy one myself! :)
__________________
-Faz

Instagram @fazmoto
faz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 04:28 AM   #78
Santiago32
"TRF" Member
 
Santiago32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Real Name: Jim
Location: UTC/GMT -7 hours
Watch: BLRO-LV-EXP1-BB58
Posts: 1,664
Trading a Sub Date for a 321 Speedmaster

This will probably get burried by the new Rolex released but I wanted to share my experience of trading in my Submariner 41mm for the iconic 321 Speedmaster 'Ed White'. And let me tell you, I couldn't be happier with my decision!

Don't get me wrong, the Submariner is a fantastic watch - it's sleek, sturdy and an all-around classic. But after a while, I started to feel like it was too plain and lacking in character. Also, I have the green 'Kermit' so I always felt is was a bit of overlap.

This has been the best decision I've made in a long time in terms of my collection. The 'Ed White' just oozes personality and charm. I don't like bracelets on most Omega's but this one feels solid and in a weird way feels like a Royal Oak bracelet. The contrasting black and white dial, the vintage-inspired hands, and the ceramic bezel, which has a metal outer ring like the new Daytona has .

And the cherry on top? The 321 movement. This is one of the most sought-after movements in the world of watches, and for good reason. The 321 is based on the lemania 2310 which is precise, satisfying to use and just a joy to look at.

Overall, I am absolutely in love with my new Speedmaster 'Ed White'. It makes me smile every time I wear it and it's one that I know will stay with me for a long time to come. In a sea of other Speedmasters and "Limited Editions"... this one TRULY feels special. For those that are in a similar situation as me and are on the fence, DO IT - you won't regret it!



__________________
instagram: santiagowatchcollector
Santiago32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 04:39 AM   #79
logo
"TRF" Member
 
logo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: North America
Posts: 2,300
Quote:
Originally Posted by Santiago32 View Post
This will probably get burried by the new Rolex released but I wanted to share my experience of trading in my Submariner 41mm for the iconic 321 Speedmaster 'Ed White'. And let me tell you, I couldn't be happier with my decision!

Don't get me wrong, the Submariner is a fantastic watch - it's sleek, sturdy and an all-around classic. But after a while, I started to feel like it was too plain and lacking in character. Also, I have the green 'Kermit' so I always felt is was a bit of overlap.

This has been the best decision I've made in a long time in terms of my collection. The 'Ed White' just oozes personality and charm. I don't like bracelets on most Omega's but this one feels solid and in a weird way feels like a Royal Oak bracelet. The contrasting black and white dial, the vintage-inspired hands, and the ceramic bezel, which has a metal outer ring like the new Daytona has .

And the cherry on top? The 321 movement. This is one of the most sought-after movements in the world of watches, and for good reason. The 321 is based on the lemania 2310 which is precise, satisfying to use and just a joy to look at.

Overall, I am absolutely in love with my new Speedmaster 'Ed White'. It makes me smile every time I wear it and it's one that I know will stay with me for a long time to come. In a sea of other Speedmasters and "Limited Editions"... this one TRULY feels special. For those that are in a similar situation as me and are on the fence, DO IT - you won't regret it!



Congratulations! Glad to hear you love it, as most of us 321 owners do. Definitely a special piece that has it all - style, history, craftsmanship and collectibility.
logo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 04:44 AM   #80
AG23
"TRF" Member
 
AG23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Real Name: Al
Location: Australia
Posts: 332
Congratulations- that’s a great addition
AG23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 06:46 AM   #81
Santiago32
"TRF" Member
 
Santiago32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Real Name: Jim
Location: UTC/GMT -7 hours
Watch: BLRO-LV-EXP1-BB58
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by AG23 View Post
Congratulations- that’s a great addition
Thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by logo View Post
Congratulations! Glad to hear you love it, as most of us 321 owners do. Definitely a special piece that has it all - style, history, craftsmanship and collectibility.
Thank you! 100% agree.. This watch has it all.
__________________
instagram: santiagowatchcollector
Santiago32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 11:30 AM   #82
gtnator
2024 Pledge Member
 
gtnator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: USA
Watch: DSSD, SD43, Pepsi,
Posts: 2,062
Looks awesome! Great choice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
gtnator is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 12:05 PM   #83
agsstructures
2024 Pledge Member
 
agsstructures's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 2,258
Beautiful congrats it’s a special piece!
agsstructures is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 12:09 PM   #84
Kenny G
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Location: Canada
Posts: 934
I’d do it….I can’t say I’m a huge omega fan but the 321 is amazing. Given your collection already includes a black dial sub I wouldn’t even think twice.

Edit: Looks like you went for it. Good move and congrats!
Kenny G is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 12:55 PM   #85
Dawgprint
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2023
Location: Us
Posts: 234
Congrats. The fact you “smile” when you wear it, says it all.
Nice collection, do you like the Tudor, or find it to be “ less” than a Rolex?
Dawgprint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 01:41 PM   #86
Santiago32
"TRF" Member
 
Santiago32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Real Name: Jim
Location: UTC/GMT -7 hours
Watch: BLRO-LV-EXP1-BB58
Posts: 1,664
Trading a Sub Date for a 321 Speedmaster

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dawgprint View Post
Congrats. The fact you “smile” when you wear it, says it all.
Nice collection, do you like the Tudor, or find it to be “ less” than a Rolex?

Thank you! In my opinion, the BB58 watch may not have the same level of refinement as a Rolex, but it excels as a reliable tool watch. I also really enjoy the blue dial and aluminum bezel. Whenever I'm traveling or venturing into areas with questionable safety, it's my preferred watch to wear.
__________________
instagram: santiagowatchcollector
Santiago32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 01:45 PM   #87
Santiago32
"TRF" Member
 
Santiago32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Real Name: Jim
Location: UTC/GMT -7 hours
Watch: BLRO-LV-EXP1-BB58
Posts: 1,664
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenny G View Post
I’d do it….I can’t say I’m a huge omega fan but the 321 is amazing. Given your collection already includes a black dial sub I wouldn’t even think twice.

Edit: Looks like you went for it. Good move and congrats!
Quote:
Originally Posted by agsstructures View Post
Beautiful congrats it’s a special piece!
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtnator View Post
Looks awesome! Great choice


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you! Although I was initially worried about missing the black Sub, I have no regrets. This piece is truly amazing.
__________________
instagram: santiagowatchcollector
Santiago32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 03:10 PM   #88
waxy88
"TRF" Member
 
waxy88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2021
Location: Hertfordshire
Posts: 341
You absolutely did the right thing.
The black Sub is a runof the mill Rolex
The Ed White Speedmaster is a special special watch.
I am a smidge jealous as I dream of owning a 321
waxy88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 06:04 PM   #89
bp1000
"TRF" Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Midlands, UK
Posts: 4,653
321 is a masterpiece.

7k is quite steep but its a very special watch.
bp1000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 28 March 2023, 06:14 PM   #90
diver2012
"TRF" Member
 
diver2012's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: N/A
Watch: N/A
Posts: 1,360
Compare that to the Platona movement...and there are people who told you not to do it...

You made a great choice - Moonwatches are special.



diver2012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Takuya Watches

Bobs Watches

My Watch LLC

OCWatches

DavidSW Watches

Coronet


*Banners Of The Month*
This space is provided to horological resources.





Copyright ©2004-2024, The Rolex Forums. All Rights Reserved.

ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

Rolex is a registered trademark of ROLEX USA. The Rolex Forums is not affiliated with ROLEX USA in any way.