Rare handcrafts 2023

[dauster]

Have you guys seen the announcement today? I’m always super excited about the rare handcrafts releases each year. While unfortunately I’m far from getting one allocated I love drooling over old and new releases frequently

Really like the strap and hands with holes given the old school racing theme but also love the pocket watches I believe this one is wood marquetry





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[Ichiran]

Like you I'm also excited with these annual art work and the digital display past few years were great for enthusiasts. Still hope to own one though.

[HMHM]

Wow that looks amazing! I get the sense that there is effort to modernise the rare handcrafts to cater to the younger clients.

[Ubiquitous1984]

What does one have to do to get considered for a RH? What type of collection size/history are we talking about here? Is it allocated by the retailer still, or via a PP boutique?

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous1984

What does one have to do to get considered for a RH? What type of collection size/history are we talking about here? Is it allocated by the retailer still, or via a PP boutique?

If I recall correctly, they are allocated at the PP level. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in here

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Ubiquitous1984

What does one have to do to get considered for a RH? What type of collection size/history are we talking about here? Is it allocated by the retailer still, or via a PP boutique?

Patek will showcase these 5089/5077 at the annual Baselworld/W&W. There are around 40 to 50 pieces for order amongst thousands of orders placed by all the ADs around the world (wonder why your AD travel there annually?), but only 40 to 50 of them will get it. Then your AD will choose his/her best customer to allocate to.

[francoamerican]

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[vitalsigns]

I know people like them, and they're tightly allocated, but I have to confess, I never really understood the appeal. The designs almost always seem cartoonish.

And at the prices asked, I'd always want more horological oomph, i.e., moving up the complications ladder.

I know this is the Patek forum, but I frankly think some of the other makers' cloissone or similar art designs (e.g. JLC) are better.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Like you I'm also excited with these annual art work and the digital display past few years were great for enthusiasts. Still hope to own one though.

with your history you should have a shot at least, no ? have you applied for one in the past ?

[dauster]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

If I recall correctly, they are allocated at the PP level. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in here

I was told 8-10 pateks including some grand comps minimum - but unlikely and probably have to wait many years. But one can still buy in-catalogue rare handcrafts like 5231 or the 5088P - Im guessing owning these won't hurt your chances for the annual out of catalogue releseas. Also, I have seen womens rare handcrafts somewhat frequently displayed in my ads windows.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by dauster

with your history you should have a shot at least, no ? have you applied for one in the past ?

I couldn't even get a 5231 allocation and hence did not ask for these rare handcrafts. Between my wife and I, we have bought 19 Patek to date, spanning almost all model lines except the Golden Ellipse. I have asked my AD yesterday for any rare handcraft they can get this year but I'm not hopeful. They are flying there tomorrow for the W&W.

2 years ago I saw a gentleman unboxing a dome at my AD. He was wearing a 5204 and I heard from my SE he is a big collector. He looked ecstatic and I congratulated him. It must have been fulfilling from a horological perspective to receive such an exquisite piece of art that also tells time at the same time.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

If I recall correctly, they are allocated at the PP level. Maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in here

According to my AD, Patek allocates to AD and then AD decides who they want to allocate to. Patek is not involved in the AD decision process.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

And at the prices asked, I'd always want more horological oomph, i.e., moving up the complications ladder.

I know this is the Patek forum, but I frankly think some of the other makers' cloissone or similar art designs (e.g. JLC) are better.

Many collectors who collect these rare handcrafts already have their highest grand complications. I don't think they see this as a mutually exclusive event, ie, they are not contemplating to add a rare handcraft or a 5327. They are buying rare handcraft for the artwork, rarity and associated exclusivity.

Which JLC cloisonné enamel works are better than Patek's rare handcrafts please? Patek has been doing hand-guilloche, enameling, wood marquetry, miniature painting and engraving for a long time. I would love to see the JLC's as I'm intrigued by the "better" comparative.

[dchang81]

how much do the calatrava rare handcrafts usually run?

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by dchang81

how much do the calatrava rare handcrafts usually run?

I don't have this year's price but last year prices for 5089 was S$148k and 5077 was S$165k (ladies rare handcrafts come with diamond).

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I couldn't even get a 5231 allocation and hence did not ask for these rare handcrafts. Between my wife and I, we have bought 19 Patek to date, spanning almost all model lines except the Golden Ellipse. I have asked my AD yesterday for any rare handcraft they can get this year but I'm not hopeful. They are flying there tomorrow for the W&W.

2 years ago I saw a gentleman unboxing a dome at my AD. He was wearing a 5204 and I heard from my SE he is a big collector. He looked ecstatic and I congratulated him. It must have been fulfilling from a horological perspective to receive such an exquisite piece of art that also tells time at the same time.

Interesting but might also be due to the fact that Singapore is such a competitive city when it come to watches - but seems like you are getting there - good luck

In regards to the dome clocks I’m also fascinated by them but they should be even harder to get allocated because they are one of a kind. Same goes for the pocket watches, I really love the design of the stand that has design elements of the watch itself. So beautiful true works of art.

And to the gentleman that said he prefers JLC (totally disagree) but should be much easier to get an allocation- do you have any examples you can share? I have only seen some vacheron pieces that I like but nothing compares to Patek.
Frankly can’t believe that Anita Porchet makes some of the monstrosities for Louis Vuitton- oh wells gotta make a Buck I guess


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

According to my AD, Patek allocates to AD and then AD decides who they want to allocate to. Patek is not involved in the AD decision process.

According to my AD, ADs put in the application but Geneva decides allocation based on collection etc but could also be a nice way of deferring responsibility since I’m super small time and just started buying Patek less than a year ago so I would put more weight to what you been told


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[Ellz]

Fantastic Dauster thanks for sharing :-). PS Michael- you are one of the nicest, caring, articulate, knowledgeable and passionate PP collectors we have here- If someone should get one- I know everyone here would agree- it should be you! Fingers crossed for you

[vitalsigns]

Not cloisonne, so perhaps not comparable from your perspective, but for example, the Reverso depicting the Great Wave off Kanagawa or the Reverso depicting the Kirifuri Waterfall; or the Reversos for the Four Seasons (obviously one has to like the subject matter; but I find them extremely well done). Most all of the Reverso tribute enamel dials seem extremely well done to me.

This is very subjective, of course, but I generally don't prefer the Patek subject matter for its special handcraft pieces. No right or wrong here -- it's all about preferences.

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by dauster

Interesting but might also be due to the fact that Singapore is such a competitive city when it come to watches - but seems like you are getting there - good luck

Every time I added a Patek I would remind my AD, but it appears that the total number of Patek I owned is not a key factor in the allocation of rare handcraft. It's a black box to me...

Originally Posted by dauster

According to my AD, ADs put in the application but Geneva decides allocation based on collection etc but could also be a nice way of deferring responsibility since I’m super small time and just started buying Patek less than a year ago so I would put more weight to what you been told

My guess is different Patek agents (HSWA/Rhone/GMT/Libertas) allocate differently. I have read about other Patek agents allocating high grand complications (eg 5370 and beyond) directly to customers while GMT leaves it to AD to allocate. Though for the likes of 6301 and 6002, they have to be approved by Patek HQ.

Maybe that's the same approach for rare handcrafts too?

Originally Posted by Ellz

PS Michael- you are one of the nicest, caring, articulate, knowledgeable and passionate PP collectors we have here - If someone should get one - I know everyone here would agree - it should be you! Fingers crossed for you

Thanks for your well wishes! I hope to receive one to complement my collection but if I do not, there are no hard feelings too. My AD has taken very good care of me all these years nonetheless

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Every time I added a Patek I would remind my AD, but it appears that the total number of Patek I owned is not a key factor in the allocation of rare handcraft. It's a black box to me...



My guess is different Patek agents (HSWA/Rhone/GMT/Libertas) allocate differently. I have read about other Patek agents allocating high grand complications (eg 5370 and beyond) directly to customers while GMT leaves it to AD to allocate. Though for the likes of 6301 and 6002, they have to be approved by Patek HQ.

Maybe that's the same approach for rare handcrafts too?

Honestly if you bought most of the 19 pateks at your AD I would say you are a very strong contender for a minute repeater and rare handcrafts but who knows.

I have a buddy that knows the folks at HSWA very well because they connected on a trip to Geneva from his AD. And yes they deliver minute repeaters and certain grand comps like the 5160 directly to customers in NYC. But then I also heard that some took delivery at their AD - honestly seems a bit all over the place and there seems to be not one way of doing things.

However, it does feel like you need to know people at HSWA or Geneva in a sense that they are aware of you as a collector somewhere along the line and not just at your AD.


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[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Many collectors who collect these rare handcrafts already have their highest grand complications. I don't think they see this as a mutually exclusive event, ie, they are not contemplating to add a rare handcraft or a 5327. They are buying rare handcraft for the artwork, rarity and associated exclusivity.

By the way, I very much agree with this point. Collectors in the market for Patek's rare handcraft pieces I'm sure are flush with Pateks, so it is not an either/or choice for them.

[codecow]

I know a guy who got one from the NYC exhibition. His collection is insane, not just Patek but from small independents all the way down to Rolex.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Not cloisonne, so perhaps not comparable from your perspective, but for example, the Reverso depicting the Great Wave off Kanagawa or the Reverso depicting the Kirifuri Waterfall; or the Reversos for the Four Seasons (obviously one has to like the subject matter; but I find them extremely well done). Most all of the Reverso tribute enamel dials seem extremely well done to me.

This is very subjective, of course, but I generally don't prefer the Patek subject matter for its special handcraft pieces. No right or wrong here -- it's all about preferences.

these reversos are beautiful but even though highly subjective I would say Anita Porchets School of Fish or the Cinque Terre rare handcrafts are more intricate and seem to be of higher quality artistically. Not to speak of the miniture painitngs on pocket watches from Suzanne Rohr - truly amazing masterpieces. Horoloy_Ancienne owns some and shwos them on IG.

[Chiboy]

Originally Posted by codecow

I know a guy who got one from the NYC exhibition. His collection is insane, not just Patek but from small independents all the way down to Rolex.

Ouch!!!!

[jon_jon]

It is difficult to see these marquetry watches in person as they make so few and they are usually stored in safes of big collectors. One can sometimes see them during a Patek exhibition.

I have only seen one Patek wood marquetry watch that was still sealed at an AD waiting for pickup by a big collector. The AD told me some of these collectors are invited to W&W (previously Basel) and get to see some of these items at a private viewing and they get to submit requests. Of course not all of them will be allocated a piece. But Patek knows these collectors and they have been to the factory tour and have been known collectors for a long time and have been vetted to make sure they will not end up flipping their collection within a year or two of starting their collection.

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by dauster

these reversos are beautiful but even though highly subjective I would say Anita Porchets School of Fish or the Cinque Terre rare handcrafts are more intricate and seem to be of higher quality artistically. Not to speak of the miniture painitngs on pocket watches from Suzanne Rohr - truly amazing masterpieces. Horoloy_Ancienne owns some and shwos them on IG.

I do agree that Patek's pieces are generally more intricate and difficult to make. Beyond that we are at the point, as you say, of subjective preferences. I'm happy for those collectors who enjoy and are able to secure the handcraft pieces. They surely are rare and special.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

I do agree that Patek's pieces are generally more intricate and difficult to make. Beyond that we are at the point, as you say, of subjective preferences. I'm happy for those collectors who enjoy and are able to secure the handcraft pieces. They surely are rare and special.

what's the method the JLC pieces are made with ?

[vitalsigns]

Originally Posted by dauster

what's the method the JLC pieces are made with ?

Grand feu enamel painting, multiple firings.

SJX has some nice write-ups on them, this one included:

https://watchesbysjx.com/2018/02/gre...lecoultre.html

[dauster]

Originally Posted by vitalsigns

Grand feu enamel painting, multiple firings.

SJX has some nice write-ups on them, this one included:

https://watchesbysjx.com/2018/02/gre...lecoultre.html

very interesting thanks for the great article. personally prefer the pateks as the calatravas seem to offer a better canvas and are actually visible when wearing but still very cool pieces.