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Stesol · 23 March 2010, 04:44 AM

Hi folks,

I am new to this forum and am looking to get your opinions on a watch I bought 13 yrs ago in NYC from a dealer whom a collector friend at the time introduced me to. I recently took it to Rolex service in San Francisco to get some details on it after a stranger in a restaurant offered to buy it from me....I own a number of watches that I have purchased over the years solely based on the fact that I like how they looked, I am not a "collector" - IWC, Orsis, Jager LeCoultre, Omega & others..
Here are the details along with attached photos:
Serial #: 1,045,514
Case stamp: IV '63
Movement: 1565
Bracelet: 7206 (Date stamp: "2 66")
- I asked why bracelet doesn't match date - obvious answer was original bracelet was changed...
Condition: VG
All original save for dial finish - hands and hour dots have been relumened - was told good job but they cant verify it was done by rolex.
Question: I have seen similar GMT's listed on various sites at a wide range of prices -$5k-$18K....why such a wide range & where does mine fall in that range?
Many thanks for any insight,
-Steve

ParisDakarBmw · 23 March 2010, 05:11 AM

Nice watch! First you would look at Box & papers, with everything original. Assuming the complete original package isn't there, the value decreases.

The dial and hands have been refurbished/ relumed. That takes another bit from a collector standpoint.

The bracelet is a riveted style which can be a little more collectable for the person who needs that on the older models.

With that said, you must then think of the movement, springs, seals, case tube, crown, and anything else that may need to be replaced, plus the servicing.

You have a nice watch, but may need to show it some TLC to bring a higher asking price.

Dan Pierce · 23 March 2010, 06:00 AM

Sorry, not enough of an expert to talk value, experts will be along soon.

I just wanted to say that your reason for buying watches, because the way they look, is the best reason to buy watches.

Welcome to TRF and thanks for sharing that vintage beauty.

dP

mike · 23 March 2010, 01:47 PM

The pointed crown guards are desirable to a collector. Looks like the photos were taken with the flash on so it's a bit tough to get a true feel for the dial.

I think it looks like a gilt dial which of course is correct for the era. Might be relumed? Again tough to tell given the lighting. I agree the hour and minute hands look to latter replacements, but the small 24 hr. hand is correct for the era. Insert looks to a later replacement as well (not uncommon).

From my view it looks like the lugs might be slightly rounded.

Asking prices can be all over the map hence the wide variation you see. B&P and all the bit do add a bunch to the overall value. I'd say you're in the lower side of the range you found.

Stesol · 23 March 2010, 11:55 PM

Based on the feedback I will post better pics later today- sans flash - showing the watch at different angles.
-Steve

eparisini · 24 March 2010, 01:32 AM

You would need a chapter ring dial SCOC or an Underline dial, hands, bezel insert...

Maybe value is about $ 6.000

Orchi · 24 March 2010, 04:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stesol

Hi folks,

I am new to this forum and am looking to get your opinions on a watch I bought 13 yrs ago in NYC from a dealer whom a collector friend at the time introduced me to. I recently took it to Rolex service in San Francisco to get some details on it after a stranger in a restaurant offered to buy it from me....I own a number of watches that I have purchased over the years solely based on the fact that I like how they looked, I am not a "collector" - IWC, Orsis, Jager LeCoultre, Omega & others..
Here are the details along with attached photos:
Serial #: 1,045,514
Case stamp: IV '63
Movement: 1565
Bracelet: 7206 (Date stamp: "2 66")
- I asked why bracelet doesn't match date - obvious answer was original bracelet was changed...
Condition: VG
All original save for dial finish - hands and hour dots have been relumened - was told good job but they cant verify it was done by rolex.
Question: I have seen similar GMT's listed on various sites at a wide range of prices -$5k-$18K....why such a wide range & where does mine fall in that range?
Many thanks for any insight,
-Steve

Err buddy Steve...welcome to the TRF Vintage forum...

It would appear that your early 1mil case series 1675 has the correct period Gilt Dial variant...
which perhaps could be the amongst the 1st batch of Gilt Dial that does not...
have the CR(Outer Chapter Ring minute track) marked "SWISS-T<25"...
during the transitional period.

The Swiss Made 7206 Oyster bracelet marked "66" on its Clasps may appear late...(only the Clasps may have been replaced later)
but also possibly it's original to the watch...

However...it would help a lot if you can get closer shots of the Hands n Lume markers...
to see if they have indeed been relumed or not..

Hopes to see more closeup scans of the Dial...soon.

Stesol · 24 March 2010, 11:52 AM

Here are few new pics - I am not very good at digital photography - took these outside but still got reflection in watch face....additionally my macro setting didn't allow me to get much closer..I'll stick to my day job.

Rolex SF did say it had been relumened..
-Steve

stevemulholland3 · 25 March 2010, 07:32 PM

too bad about the re-lume job..now its definitely in the low end of the value range..
on these older pieces the dial is 50% or more of the value!
if the dial where completely original you would have been much happier!
I do know a fellow who has had a lot of succcess removing the re-lume..hopefully they just applied it on top of the old tritium instead of scraping the old tritium off and then applying the relume.

Stesol · 26 March 2010, 01:17 AM

Thanks for the feedback - I would like to better understand the re-lume approach you mention; can we speak live?
-Steve

Stesol · 29 March 2010, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orchi

Err buddy Steve...welcome to the TRF Vintage forum...

It would appear that your early 1mil case series 1675 has the correct period Gilt Dial variant...
which perhaps could be the amongst the 1st batch of Gilt Dial that does not...
have the CR(Outer Chapter Ring minute track) marked "SWISS-T<25"...
during the transitional period.

The Swiss Made 7206 Oyster bracelet marked "66" on its Clasps may appear late...(only the Clasps may have been replaced later)
but also possibly it's original to the watch...

However...it would help a lot if you can get closer shots of the Hands n Lume markers...
to see if they have indeed been relumed or not..

Hopes to see more closeup scans of the Dial...soon.

OK,
so I found out how to get closer in pics - let me know what you think??
Cheers,
-Steve

Subfiend · 29 March 2010, 08:28 AM

I had this exact watch a few years ago without the relume, and I wish I had kept it. I think you are looking at $6,000 even with the relume. The price of gilt dial Subs and GMTs in original or mostly original condition continues to escalate. I would not let it go cheap. Restore the lume if it bothers you. Otherwise, enjoy it.

landroverking · 29 March 2010, 09:47 AM

The highest price I have seen is in the $10K range. Most seem to be trading for 5 to 6k which is way north of what the watch sold. I friend of mine paid like $225 in 1969 and I paid $550 for my 1675 in 1978. Both of these watches have been serivice many times and still look new. I would not take $5K for mine today.

gerhad · 30 March 2010, 12:57 PM

Hi Everyone,
I am new too! Looking at it, how i wish that relume was never done to begin with.
At the rate the demand for Sports Rollies are going out there at the moment, i would say it really does lie on how much someone is willing to give for it.
Last i saw on Fellows n Sons, was at the 4000 pound mark, and that was in real bad condition.
Rgds, G.Wolfgang

swissautopro · 30 March 2010, 09:32 PM

Due to the dial relume and what appears to me to be heavy polishing by someone who didn't know a lot about proper polishing of a Rolex, I would pass on this one completely. There are far better examples out there if you are willing to wait.

23 March 2010, 06:00 AM	#3
Dan Pierce 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Real Name: D'OH! Location: Kentucky Watch: Rolex-1 Tudor-3 Posts: 35,721	Sorry, not enough of an expert to talk value, experts will be along soon. I just wanted to say that your reason for buying watches, because the way they look, is the best reason to buy watches. Welcome to TRF and thanks for sharing that vintage beauty. dP __________________ TRF Member# 1668 Bass Player in TRF "AFTER DARK" Bar & NightClub Band Commander-in-Chief of The Nylon Nation The Crown & Shield Club Honorary Member of P-Club

23 March 2010, 11:55 PM	#5
Stesol "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9	Thanks everyone for your thoughts! Based on the feedback I will post better pics later today- sans flash - showing the watch at different angles. -Steve

29 March 2010, 08:28 AM	#12
Subfiend "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Outside Watch: Isn't it obvious? Posts: 1,924	I had this exact watch a few years ago without the relume, and I wish I had kept it. I think you are looking at $6,000 even with the relume. The price of gilt dial Subs and GMTs in original or mostly original condition continues to escalate. I would not let it go cheap. Restore the lume if it bothers you. Otherwise, enjoy it. __________________ Subfiend

30 March 2010, 09:32 PM	#15
swissautopro "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Mike Location: South Carolina Watch: 3.3M 1655 Mk I Posts: 2,384	Due to the dial relume and what appears to me to be heavy polishing by someone who didn't know a lot about proper polishing of a Rolex, I would pass on this one completely. There are far better examples out there if you are willing to wait. __________________ "A little sleep, a little slumber, a little folding of the hands to rest, and poverty will come upon you like a bandit, and scarcity like an armed man." Proverbs 24 "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than open your mouth and remove all doubt." Unknown "Better to be a nobody and yet have a servant than pretend to be somebody and have no food." Proverbs 12

23 March 2010, 05:11 AM	#2
ParisDakarBmw Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Paul Location: New Haven, CT Watch: 116610 Sub-C Posts: 6,552	Nice watch! First you would look at Box & papers, with everything original. Assuming the complete original package isn't there, the value decreases. The dial and hands have been refurbished/ relumed. That takes another bit from a collector standpoint. The bracelet is a riveted style which can be a little more collectable for the person who needs that on the older models. With that said, you must then think of the movement, springs, seals, case tube, crown, and anything else that may need to be replaced, plus the servicing. You have a nice watch, but may need to show it some TLC to bring a higher asking price.

23 March 2010, 01:47 PM	#4
mike "TRF" Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Posts: 22,683	The pointed crown guards are desirable to a collector. Looks like the photos were taken with the flash on so it's a bit tough to get a true feel for the dial. I think it looks like a gilt dial which of course is correct for the era. Might be relumed? Again tough to tell given the lighting. I agree the hour and minute hands look to latter replacements, but the small 24 hr. hand is correct for the era. Insert looks to a later replacement as well (not uncommon). From my view it looks like the lugs might be slightly rounded. Asking prices can be all over the map hence the wide variation you see. B&P and all the bit do add a bunch to the overall value. I'd say you're in the lower side of the range you found.

25 March 2010, 07:32 PM	#9
stevemulholland3 Banned Join Date: Dec 2007 Real Name: steven Location: tampa bay Watch: 1680 18k sub Posts: 6,673	too bad about the re-lume job..now its definitely in the low end of the value range.. on these older pieces the dial is 50% or more of the value! if the dial where completely original you would have been much happier! I do know a fellow who has had a lot of succcess removing the re-lume..hopefully they just applied it on top of the old tritium instead of scraping the old tritium off and then applying the relume.

26 March 2010, 01:17 AM	#10
Stesol "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: San Francisco Posts: 9	Thanks for the feedback - I would like to better understand the re-lume approach you mention; can we speak live? -Steve

29 March 2010, 09:47 AM	#13
landroverking "TRF" Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Real Name: Jay Location: TEXAS Watch: Daytona Posts: 7,648	The highest price I have seen is in the $10K range. Most seem to be trading for 5 to 6k which is way north of what the watch sold. I friend of mine paid like $225 in 1969 and I paid $550 for my 1675 in 1978. Both of these watches have been serivice many times and still look new. I would not take $5K for mine today.

30 March 2010, 12:57 PM	#14
gerhad "TRF" Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Dubai Posts: 1	Hi Everyone, I am new too! Looking at it, how i wish that relume was never done to begin with. At the rate the demand for Sports Rollies are going out there at the moment, i would say it really does lie on how much someone is willing to give for it. Last i saw on Fellows n Sons, was at the 4000 pound mark, and that was in real bad condition. Rgds, G.Wolfgang

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