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Old 11 May 2019, 12:07 AM   #91
toxicavenger
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Personally this seller needs to be punched in his mouth.
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Old 11 May 2019, 12:17 AM   #92
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Originally Posted by gaoxing84 View Post
I called my local bank just 5mins ago.
They say if the wire was made on Friday after the cut off time.
The first business day will only start on Monday (not including Monday itself since it's the time they're processing it.
So the bank of hope advise that 5 working days for the wire to appear.
So basically I have to wait till it's Monday (13th of May) for the funds to appear before bank of hope can open a case.
I've sent dozens of wire payments to trusted sellers on this website. Every one of them was international (Canada to USA) and it doesn't take 5 days. If i send it early in the morning it usually makes it by afternoon. At most, it takes 24 hours, so I guess it could be two business days. I understand yours is slightly different but if they initiated it Monday morning, you should have it by now.

I feel your pain and I really hope this works out in your favour, but I would have a tough time remaining calm if I were you.
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Old 11 May 2019, 12:44 AM   #93
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Old 11 May 2019, 12:55 AM   #94
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That someone is me. Until I've seen that it works, it doesn't.
I don't know that my car insurance works. I've never filed a claim. But that doesn't mean I don't keep it in place as...well...extra insurance.

The point is, anyone who isn't doing everything to protect themselves from theft or forgery in this hobby is a blithering idiot. Do everything you can do to protect and insure yourself, and hope that you'll never need it.
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Old 11 May 2019, 12:59 AM   #95
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I don't know that my car insurance works. I've never filed a claim. But that doesn't mean I don't keep it in place as...well...extra insurance.

The point is, anyone who isn't doing everything to protect themselves from theft or forgery in this hobby is a blithering idiot. Do everything you can do to protect and insure yourself, and hope that you'll never need it.
That's a horrible example and makes no sense. So to use your car insurance analogy, you are driving around all the time video taping yourself in case you are in an accident so you can use it if you need to file a claim? I'm all for doing whatever makes you safe. But until someone actually has proof that filming a boxing and unboxing works in a insurance claim investigation, I'm saying it doesn't...
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Old 11 May 2019, 01:14 AM   #96
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Stolen watch by Fedex Outlet at California Gardena

OP you should call the originator bank and confirm the transaction #. I’m in the US which Korean bank are you referring to.

About the seller what type of information do you know about him. Did you talk on the phone with him? What type of reference do you have on him? Did you google his number and house info? Etc?

Seller needs to put some urgency into this matter. Put a criminal record on the seller if he doesn’t resolve the issue.
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Old 11 May 2019, 01:16 AM   #97
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Originally Posted by MinMay View Post
OP you should call the originator bank and confirm the transaction #. I’m in the US which Korean bank are you referring to.

About the seller what type of information do you know about him. Did you talk on the phone with him? What type of reference do you have on him? Did you google his number and house info? Etc?
https://www.google.com/search?q=bank...hrome&ie=UTF-8
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Old 11 May 2019, 02:02 AM   #98
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That's a horrible example and makes no sense. I'm all for doing whatever makes you safe. But until someone actually has proof that filming a boxing and unboxing works in a insurance claim investigation, I'm saying it doesn't...
OK, let me break this down Crayola style.

Investigations are about the totality of evidence, or preponderance of evidence.

Scenario 1:
Watch shows up. Buyer takes delivery of parcel. Opens it up and finds paper. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? None. What evidence is there that the watch wasn't in the box upon arrival? None. However, the shipping company has a lot of cameras, so they can prove when the watch wasn't stolen. In this case, the buyer probably gets hosed.

Scenario 2:
Watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video and finds paper in the box. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? None What evidence is there that the watch wasn't in the box upon arrival? Some. The delivery was timestamped, and so was the video. The smaller the gap, the better for the buyer. The shipping company has a lot of cameras, so they can prove when the watch wasn't stolen. In this case, the buyer probably has a slightly better chance of not getting hosed. If he bank wired, he's hosed. If he used a credit card or PayPal, then he probably has enough evidence to reach a partial solution.

Scenario 3:
Watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video and finds paper in the box. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? Some, because the seller did a boxing video. The timestamps of the boxing video and the intake from the shipping company will provide some timeline for evidence too. What evidence is there that the watch wasn't in the box upon arrival? Some. The delivery was timestamped, and so was the video. The smaller the gap, the better for the buyer. The shipping company has a lot of cameras, so they can prove when the watch wasn't stolen. But everybody used clear tape and generic packing material. In this case, the buyer probably has a slightly better chance of not getting hosed. If he bank wired, he's still hosed. If he used a credit card or PayPal, then he probably has enough evidence to reach a decent solution. On the criminal side, there is now a decent timeline and evidence to aide an investigation.

Scenario 4, which is how I sell watches.

Watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video showing serial numbered tamper seals in tact and finds paper in the box. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? Lots of it, because I filmed my packing and placement of the serial numbered tamper strips. What evidence is there that the shipper did or did not steal it? Lots, as they have cameras everywhere. They can certainly narrow down the timeline. Do the serial numbers match on the strips? Do multiple strips of like serial numbers exist? Sure, there are still some questions, but we've creates a lot of evidence for investigators to look at, and someone will almost certainly be named as being responsible.

Or, watch shows up with tamper seals busted. Buyer refuses package for damager and tampering, and has hard evidence to prove as such. The problem is now between the seller and the shipper. The seller did a video showing packing and placement of serial numbered tamper proof seals. It's all on the shipper now, and a resolution will be reached.

Or, watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video showing serial numbered tamper seals in tact and finds a watch in the box. Everybody is happy because the seals kept honest people honest. The videos were a massive waste of our time, and thank God we didn't need them. The end.


The point is that a buyer unpacking video alone does not help much, but it is better than no video. Each additional step along the way will only help all parties involved. There is a reason shippers have cameras everywhere, and that is to provide evidence. We would be remiss if we weren't doing the same.

The dual videos with the tamper tape is my personal solution. I've had boxes hit buyers with the tamper tape busted. They refused as per my instructions. Me and the shipper worked it out and all was well for the buyer. Shipping company employees rarely steal just one item. They typically develop a pattern, and every claim goes to strengthen a case against them. That was exactly the case for me, and this shipper had a propensity for snagging golf clubs. He didn't realize the tamper tape was there until it was too late, and left everything alone afterwards. The putter was in the box the whole time, but he still got busted.

Create as much evidence as you can along the way, and hope that you'll never need it.
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Old 11 May 2019, 02:07 AM   #99
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OP you should call the originator bank and confirm the transaction #. I’m in the US which Korean bank are you referring to.

About the seller what type of information do you know about him. Did you talk on the phone with him? What type of reference do you have on him? Did you google his number and house info? Etc?

Seller needs to put some urgency into this matter. Put a criminal record on the seller if he doesn’t resolve the issue.
Bank of Hope. Apparently it's one of the largest bank in USA catered to Koreans.
Yes I did. We had 4-5 deals and all went well.
I have his address, facetime him before and his mobile number.
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Old 11 May 2019, 02:09 AM   #100
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All I can pray now is get the refund out of the way.
Then figure the rest of the lost blnr.
I can't point fingers now till fedex give me an answer
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Old 11 May 2019, 02:20 AM   #101
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All I can say now that he's been responsive since the incident.
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Old 11 May 2019, 03:22 AM   #102
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OK, let me break this down Crayola style.

Investigations are about the totality of evidence, or preponderance of evidence.

Scenario 1:
Watch shows up. Buyer takes delivery of parcel. Opens it up and finds paper. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? None. What evidence is there that the watch wasn't in the box upon arrival? None. However, the shipping company has a lot of cameras, so they can prove when the watch wasn't stolen. In this case, the buyer probably gets hosed.

Scenario 2:
Watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video and finds paper in the box. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? None What evidence is there that the watch wasn't in the box upon arrival? Some. The delivery was timestamped, and so was the video. The smaller the gap, the better for the buyer. The shipping company has a lot of cameras, so they can prove when the watch wasn't stolen. In this case, the buyer probably has a slightly better chance of not getting hosed. If he bank wired, he's hosed. If he used a credit card or PayPal, then he probably has enough evidence to reach a partial solution.

Scenario 3:
Watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video and finds paper in the box. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? Some, because the seller did a boxing video. The timestamps of the boxing video and the intake from the shipping company will provide some timeline for evidence too. What evidence is there that the watch wasn't in the box upon arrival? Some. The delivery was timestamped, and so was the video. The smaller the gap, the better for the buyer. The shipping company has a lot of cameras, so they can prove when the watch wasn't stolen. But everybody used clear tape and generic packing material. In this case, the buyer probably has a slightly better chance of not getting hosed. If he bank wired, he's still hosed. If he used a credit card or PayPal, then he probably has enough evidence to reach a decent solution. On the criminal side, there is now a decent timeline and evidence to aide an investigation.

Scenario 4, which is how I sell watches.

Watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video showing serial numbered tamper seals in tact and finds paper in the box. What evidence exists to prove that there was a watch shipped? Lots of it, because I filmed my packing and placement of the serial numbered tamper strips. What evidence is there that the shipper did or did not steal it? Lots, as they have cameras everywhere. They can certainly narrow down the timeline. Do the serial numbers match on the strips? Do multiple strips of like serial numbers exist? Sure, there are still some questions, but we've creates a lot of evidence for investigators to look at, and someone will almost certainly be named as being responsible.

Or, watch shows up with tamper seals busted. Buyer refuses package for damager and tampering, and has hard evidence to prove as such. The problem is now between the seller and the shipper. The seller did a video showing packing and placement of serial numbered tamper proof seals. It's all on the shipper now, and a resolution will be reached.

Or, watch shows up. Immediately after delivery, buyer does an unboxing video showing serial numbered tamper seals in tact and finds a watch in the box. Everybody is happy because the seals kept honest people honest. The videos were a massive waste of our time, and thank God we didn't need them. The end.


The point is that a buyer unpacking video alone does not help much, but it is better than no video. Each additional step along the way will only help all parties involved. There is a reason shippers have cameras everywhere, and that is to provide evidence. We would be remiss if we weren't doing the same.

The dual videos with the tamper tape is my personal solution. I've had boxes hit buyers with the tamper tape busted. They refused as per my instructions. Me and the shipper worked it out and all was well for the buyer. Shipping company employees rarely steal just one item. They typically develop a pattern, and every claim goes to strengthen a case against them. That was exactly the case for me, and this shipper had a propensity for snagging golf clubs. He didn't realize the tamper tape was there until it was too late, and left everything alone afterwards. The putter was in the box the whole time, but he still got busted.

Create as much evidence as you can along the way, and hope that you'll never need it.
The problem here is that neither the cops or FedEx care enough to look at the cameras,I’ve read time after time cops don’t care.
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Old 11 May 2019, 04:38 AM   #103
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The problem here is that neither the cops or FedEx care enough to look at the cameras,I’ve read time after time cops don’t care.
I've had cops and shippers get involved in more than a few occasions. Although, never with a watch.

I think that entirely depends on a few things. First, what is the value of the package at hand? Is it worth their time?

Second, where did the suspected theft occur? If in shipping, they're going to deal with the shipper, not you.

Third, did you provide enough evidence to suggest anything nefarious happened that wasn't you or someone outside of their jurisdiction? One of the more common types of fraud these days is the old "I ordered a thingamajigger and got a box of paper." Here, the buyer gets the product, acts as though they didn't, all while trying to get some money from a shipper or a seller. These asshats ruin it for everyone, and so law enforcement and shipping companies are less likely to investigate. Giving them something solid to work with validates you. If the seller does it too, then the shipper gets much more motivated to investigate.

But when dealing with police, keep in mind that they have jurisdiction in a small space. Once they clear their area, they have little ability to look further unless the case is indicative of something much larger and more likely to gain attention of a federal agency.
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Old 11 May 2019, 05:21 AM   #104
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Fed ex had nothing to do with a watch being stolen here. seller never shipped watch ! Poor buyer gets a double whammy on this deal. no refund for the seller backing out of hulk, and no watch in the package, just a bunch of blank iou slips to fill out.
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Old 11 May 2019, 05:35 AM   #105
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I've had cops and shippers get involved in more than a few occasions. Although, never with a watch.

I think that entirely depends on a few things. First, what is the value of the package at hand? Is it worth their time?

Second, where did the suspected theft occur? If in shipping, they're going to deal with the shipper, not you.

Third, did you provide enough evidence to suggest anything nefarious happened that wasn't you or someone outside of their jurisdiction? One of the more common types of fraud these days is the old "I ordered a thingamajigger and got a box of paper." Here, the buyer gets the product, acts as though they didn't, all while trying to get some money from a shipper or a seller. These asshats ruin it for everyone, and so law enforcement and shipping companies are less likely to investigate. Giving them something solid to work with validates you. If the seller does it too, then the shipper gets much more motivated to investigate.

But when dealing with police, keep in mind that they have jurisdiction in a small space. Once they clear their area, they have little ability to look further unless the case is indicative of something much larger and more likely to gain attention of a federal agency.

I have seen about 95% of these Threads end with the Scammer keeping the Money and the Buyer screwed. I’m simply playing the odds.
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Old 11 May 2019, 05:59 AM   #106
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Hope you get your money back..

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Old 11 May 2019, 06:27 AM   #107
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The reason why Fedex and Police take little interest is the value placed on the shipment. If its low as OP says then thats the basis on which any investigation will be driven. Anything less than $10K is not going to get much traction with the authorities if there are no other mitigating circumstances like injury.
OP must phone the issuing branch in Gardena (+1 310-327-2222) and confirm its in process and a genuine transaction. Its just too easy these day to falsify bank checks, money orders, wire docs etc.
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Old 11 May 2019, 06:46 AM   #108
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Fed ex had nothing to do with a watch being stolen here. seller never shipped watch ! Poor buyer gets a double whammy on this deal. no refund for the seller backing out of hulk, and no watch in the package, just a bunch of blank iou slips to fill out.


Unfortunately I agree. The part that I don’t get is why bother telling the buyer that part about the gf keeping the LV, and that he would refund? The only thing I can think is he wanted to keep the $25+ grand for the two watches. Then insure the BLNR and claim it stolen, thereby getting that money too? I hope we are all wrong.


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Old 11 May 2019, 09:05 AM   #109
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Stolen watch by Fedex Outlet at California Gardena

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Bank of Hope. Apparently it's one of the largest bank in USA catered to Koreans.

Yes I did. We had 4-5 deals and all went well.

I have his address, facetime him before and his mobile number.

If he doesn’t pay then just create a criminal file against him. No one will hire anyone with a criminal record. Like you said it’s not worth it but it’s his own fault. Stop being nice. I was scammed once already for being nice. Luckily the bank reverse the charge. I learned my lesson. Never again.
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Old 11 May 2019, 09:25 AM   #110
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Hey, OP, you said the seller was in California. Based on the Watchtime event last weekend, there are a hell of a lot of forum members down in the LA area. Just post up his address if this goes south. I'm sure some of us can go check on him for you. ;-)
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Old 11 May 2019, 06:10 PM   #111
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Hey, OP, you said the seller was in California. Based on the Watchtime event last weekend, there are a hell of a lot of forum members down in the LA area. Just post up his address if this goes south. I'm sure some of us can go check on him for you. ;-)
I hope I don't have to go to that direction.
:(
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Old 11 May 2019, 06:17 PM   #112
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He facetimed me 12 hours ago.
He told me he's checking with the bank. Not sure what's going on.
If it doesn't show up on Monday.
He will send it again.
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Old 11 May 2019, 08:25 PM   #113
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He facetimed me 12 hours ago.
He told me he's checking with the bank. Not sure what's going on.
If it doesn't show up on Monday.
He will send it again.
Strange.. I really hope you will get your money back

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Old 11 May 2019, 11:23 PM   #114
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As someone who is soon selling a Rolex via a TRF and shipping through UPS or Fedex, what’s the best way of going about doing so discretely? I don’t like the idea of walking in with a Rolex box and walking out knowing every single employee knows what’s in the box. I also don’t like the idea of dropping it off in the mailbox for the FedEx man to come pick it up in the morning or whatever way that works. I don’t know how to get ParcelPro, it seems like a subscription thing but I’m not a watch dealer or anything. It wouldn’t make sense for me to get that. Any tips would be appreciated.


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Buy some standard packing materials like bubble wrap and a box, pack the watch yourself, and then either print a label or go pay at FedEx and don’t declare what’s in the box. Ship priority overnight even though it’s more expensive because then it’s in such a hurry there is no time for funny business.

I’ve asked, and the most FedEx will reimburse for a watch is $1000. Meaning even if you paid for $15000 of insurance when you shipped it, you won’t get that back. This is why people use outside insurance. So as a private individual and not a business, when I have shipped expensive watches I just pack it myself, declare it worth $100, say a prayer and ship it. Never had a problem.


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Old 11 May 2019, 11:41 PM   #115
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He facetimed me 12 hours ago.
He told me he's checking with the bank. Not sure what's going on.
If it doesn't show up on Monday.
He will send it again.
Sounds like stall tactics to me.

You’ve dealt with him before using wire transfers ... how long did it take the funds to clear your account heading to him?

I deal in wire transfers frequently through the business and as long as the account code and swift code are correct, the funds transfer takes a day or two in my experience.
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Old 12 May 2019, 05:26 AM   #116
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He facetimed me 12 hours ago.
He told me he's checking with the bank. Not sure what's going on.
If it doesn't show up on Monday.
He will send it again.
You need to proactively chase this payment. Don't rely on what the seller is telling or showing you. Only way to be certain is contact branch YOURSELF and ask if the details you have are legitimate. Why would seller send you another payment if he did what he said last week. Wire transfer is one of the most certain kinds of payments, hence why sellers prefer this as mode of payment. Five business days is too long. I think this seller, for whatever reason, is giving you the runaround.
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Old 12 May 2019, 05:30 AM   #117
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Sounds like stall tactics to me.



You’ve dealt with him before using wire transfers ... how long did it take the funds to clear your account heading to him?



I deal in wire transfers frequently through the business and as long as the account code and swift code are correct, the funds transfer takes a day or two in my experience.
+1

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Old 12 May 2019, 07:22 AM   #118
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Just post up his address if this goes south. I'm sure some of us can go check on him for you. ;-)

Suborning intimidation can lead to a problem for you and the “visitors”.

Your post means to induce someone to commit a potentially unlawful act. Often, this involves protection payoffs or other forms of intimidation, but the method of subornation may vary.

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I hope I don't have to go to that direction.

:(

Ummm...I wouldn’t go there now that the suggestion has been made.

You can’t control who reads TRF and wouldn’t want to inadvertently become complicit should the other party have any “visitors” who go too far...

Very slim possibility but not worth it.




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Old 12 May 2019, 09:49 AM   #119
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You need to proactively chase this payment. Don't rely on what the seller is telling or showing you. Only way to be certain is contact branch YOURSELF and ask if the details you have are legitimate. Why would seller send you another payment if he did what he said last week. Wire transfer is one of the most certain kinds of payments, hence why sellers prefer this as mode of payment. Five business days is too long. I think this seller, for whatever reason, is giving you the runaround.
5 business is told by the bank to him.
For international wire, even my bank told me, for certain banks, they go thru a few larger bank before arriving - 2-4 business day.

He facetimed me on Friday morning and told me face to face that he's going to check on Monday if it doesn't arrive, he will send the funds again

I should call the bank on Monday to check.
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Old 12 May 2019, 09:50 AM   #120
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Sounds like stall tactics to me.

You’ve dealt with him before using wire transfers ... how long did it take the funds to clear your account heading to him?

I deal in wire transfers frequently through the business and as long as the account code and swift code are correct, the funds transfer takes a day or two in my experience.
Yes. That's right.
Takes 2 days for it to clear.
That's why I am worried.
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