Closing my AP chapter

[~JJ]

Originally Posted by cornsyrup_bezel

With AP there seems to be a tier of collector who can obtain multiple royals oaks and desirable references. There is then another tier that has to buy a code. Seems like many patek collectors truly do have a range of dress and sports but with AP being relegated to the high pressure buy a code purgatory is tough to break out of.

Maybe many of the big AP collectors here have many more codes/ROO than i realize.

PP does have a deeper range of cases. However, I don’t think it really improves their position in terms of entry to the brand. Would you prefer to start with a Calatrava? Honest question since 99.9% of new PP owners are not walking out of ADs with either a Nautilus or Aquanaut. I absolutely love the 5968, but a SS rubber strap chrono at $53k vs ROC at $35k with arguably same level of parts and craftsmanship is tuff for aspirational owners (I can only justify 2-3 pieces in the $25k + range).

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by ~JJ

PP does have a deeper range of cases. However, I don’t think it really improves their position in terms of entry to the brand. Would you prefer to start with a Calatrava? Honest question since 99.9% of new PP owners are not walking out of ADs with either a Nautilus or Aquanaut. I absolutely love the 5968, but a SS rubber strap chrono at $53k vs ROC at $35k with arguably same level of parts and craftsmanship is tuff for aspirational owners (I can only justify 2-3 pieces in the $25k + range).

I actually genuinely wanted what was then a 5127 Calatrava as a dress watch when I first started collecting I would admit to being conformist at that time because dress watches were in, that's what I was told was a 'sophisticated' watch to wear with a suit. A sub was already a guilty pleasure. Unfortunately by the time I could mentally self justify the money for a dress watch without PM bracelet, I decided to be conformist again and dress like a slob as it were and no longer had any use for a dress PM watch.

@NYG1211 genuinely curious as well what happened since it seemed like you were really liking the transition to 15500ST. What straw broke the camel's back?

[maciej]

Originally Posted by NYG1121

The avatar has officially been changed and my last AP has been traded away. No more calls/texts from me to the AP boutique to beg for pieces any longer and not holding my breath that they will call me.

So consider at least one long term, pre-hype AP fan moving on from the brand. Not that they care!

You're definitely not alone in our area, that's for sure.

[GSDLover]

I cannot say enough good things about my experiences with Vacheron Constantin and my SA over the past year.
I have moved on to them and am such a fan.20230119_154512.jpg

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[GSDLover]

VC5500. I responded to your pm. I hope you got it. I can never tell if my responses ever make it through.

[Vince_76]

Originally Posted by maciej

You're definitely not alone in our area, that's for sure.

Can you elaborate? Are established customers being turned off?

[Werk782]

Now that AP is trying to get all the ADs back and centralized their customers and manage themselves.. I wonder if this will change their customer relationship in a better way.

[gregouille]

Originally Posted by Werk782

Now that AP is trying to get all the ADs back and centralized their customers and manage themselves.. I wonder if this will change their customer relationship in a better way.

Where did you get this information? Haven’t heard about this and it sounds quite unimaginable after all they’ve done to stop working with ADs…

[macrowatch]

Originally Posted by gregouille

Where did you get this information? Haven’t heard about this and it sounds quite unimaginable after all they’ve done to stop working with ADs…

Think he meant getting the AD licenses back not to go back to AD model.

[gregouille]

Make sense thanks!

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by werk782

now that ap is trying to get all the ads back and centralized their customers and manage themselves.. I wonder if this will change their customer relationship in a better way.

lol

[Mini2]

AP back in with WOS for the Manchester showroom
LOL
Thought AP wanted to have the whole piece of the pie and control the world I mean there watch allocation.

[gm58]

Originally Posted by NTCP8

A bit off topic, but consumers also have to understand their rights.

My family sued one PP AD because they didn't want to sell a watch (5980R). Too bad for that AD that they didn't have any mentioning of exhibition/display model, so according to EU Consumer Law, they are obligated to sell all products in the store, unless it's clearly mentioned that it is a display product. Obviously my family won the lawsuit (we got the watch), and that AD lost their PP authorised dealership. Couldn't care less...

My family did the same with Porsche, Audi, and Apple. Point being, EU Consumer Law will always be above the manufacture sales conditions, which most people don't know. Why do you think Rolex has these 'Exhibition Only Model' plates and AP a 'Display Only' sticker at the back...

So yeah, I couldn't care less about my relationship with any stores. I know my rights as a consumer, and I will exercise my rights when needed. If AP blacklists me because I sold a watch, and they don't want to sell me another watch, this is against EU Consumer Law, and AP knows that. It makes me cringe when I read posts when people are afraid of getting 'black listed' by selling THEIR watch, keep it real people and be more assertive.

No idea how it works in the US. EU definitely protects the consumer better. I did the same here in Hong Kong with Parson's Music. They didn't want to sell me a certain Gibson Les Paul model. Few calls and emails to the Hong Kong Consumer Council, and the guitar was mine.

Definitely would want to hear more about this PP case! Any threads or posts on this previously? Got to keep an eye out for display only posts now it seems

[DonLee]

Originally Posted by ~JJ

PP does have a deeper range of cases. However, I don’t think it really improves their position in terms of entry to the brand. Would you prefer to start with a Calatrava? Honest question since 99.9% of new PP owners are not walking out of ADs with either a Nautilus or Aquanaut. I absolutely love the 5968, but a SS rubber strap chrono at $53k vs ROC at $35k with arguably same level of parts and craftsmanship is tuff for aspirational owners (I can only justify 2-3 pieces in the $25k + range).

different brands have different price scaling.

I've always said the AP chrono was "cheap" because it was only a few thousand dollars more than a standard 3 hander, while the chrono on a PP is much more expensive. A steel chrono 5968 costs more than a white gold 5168. i think this could be explained by the fact that the ROC used to not show a movement, so they had a discount on it. Now that it has its own proper movement, AP has been hiking the price of the ROC quicker than the regular 3 hander, and bridging that gap.

AP on the other hand, charges more for material changes. A 15510OR is 130% more expensive than a 15510ST. A 26240OR is 103% more expensive than a 26240st.

However the 5711R used to be 75% more expensive than the 5711A, and the 5712R is 63% more expensive.

[Nav01L]

The thing with AP is that they just have a dismal marketing approach. They are still selling watches today like they did in the early 2000ds with Arnold, but it’s no longer to draw people in, it’s only to be seen shoulder to shoulder with whatever flavor of the day celebrity has some street cred at any given time.

The approach of their AP houses is a rather demeaning concept in the first place, given where it locates the customer within the relationship.

The same is true of how they launch their watches.

And for the more volume oriented ones, also of how they make them.

It is saddening for sure as it remains a fantastic brand with some great products and great people.

But they have to fix a lot, from how their SAs deal with customers, to how they do allocations, to how they finish basic movements.

At this point, while it’s great of them to give Benahmias a proper sendoff, I‘m sure the family is looking forward to a new era. He has grown this brand significantly and had many achievements that deserve actual credit, but all too often, they have been overshadowed or, in the case of the 11.59 launch, completely voided, by hubris and a lack of basic „decency“ in addressing those that needed to be excluded to make things exclusive.

It’s fine if you cannot or do not want to sell everyone a watch. But perhaps treat everyone with enough respect regardless.

It’s fine if you completely mess up the launch of a new product line by putting your ego and desire for a „show of force“ in the way of how you could quite obviously have made this a success if you had released the uber complications first and waited a few years with the pedestrian movements. But perhaps don’t take that out on people forcing them to buy the thing you’ve made undesirable through your ineptitude, while making it more undesirable in the process.

It’s all so evidently displaying a lack of self assurance. An assurance btw that, ironically, the brand would have every right and reason to have. Especially if they fixed some what are, taken individually, minor issues and if they put a little more energy into making watches properly and a little less effort into desperately trying to look super exclusive while doing so.

Ultimately, if what we’ve seen publicly and at events is any indication, many of the problems may well be an expression of the CEO‘s personality. Hopefully it’s that, and not a broader culture.

With all that said, I genuinely appreciate the brand, have just spent the greatest amount of money I have ever spent on a watch for an AP and truly hope things change for the better over time. I‘m not trying to hate on the brand, I want it to do better, because it seems so damn easy in this case.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by Mini2

AP back in with WOS for the Manchester showroom
LOL
Thought AP wanted to have the whole piece of the pie and control the world I mean there watch allocation.

It’s an AP House


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[Mini2]

Originally Posted by AshAP

It’s an AP House


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Funded by WOS
Looks like keeping everything for themselves doesn't make sense....In this market

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Looks like keeping everything for themselves doesn't make sense....In this market

What does this mean?

Or yet another inelegant dig at AP?

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by GW44

What does this mean?

Or yet another inelegant dig at AP?

Why even respond, You take things so literal, Like you own the business. Chill!!!! More things to be worried about in the world than some plonker having a little laugh at how AP business model is now diversifying from how it was previously

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Why even respond, You take things so literal, Like you own the business. Chill!!!! More things to be worried about in the world than some plonker having a little laugh at how AP business model is now diversifying from how it was previously

As usual you are incapable of a) answering a question and b) noting the use of question marks….as opposed to me making a “literal” (your word) statement that doesn’t require a question mark of course.

Respectfully, maybe change the broken record bleating about AP. Or feel free to carry on and get called out by members.

[Rickkk]

[Rickkk]

Love how Gareth always gets wound up by minis comments and then mini just vanishes and never answers anything haha

[GW44]

Originally Posted by Rickkk

Love how Gareth always gets wound up by minis comments and then mini just vanishes and never answers anything haha

I actually don’t get wound up at all Rick as that would be a redundant energy. But this forum can, and is, be a valuable resource for those members that actively choose to engage positively and share their knowledge on the AP brand.

[AshAP]

Originally Posted by GW44

I actually don’t get wound up at all Rick as that would be a redundant energy. But this forum can, and is, be a valuable resource for those members that actively choose to engage positively and share their knowledge on the AP brand.

Most of the quick money clowns that joined this forum during Covid seem to have left, unfortunately there are still one or two persistent stragglers though.


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[VogelPhoenix]

Originally Posted by GW44

I actually don’t get wound up at all Rick as that would be a redundant energy. But this forum can, and is, be a valuable resource for those members that actively choose to engage positively and share their knowledge on the AP brand.

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Why even respond, You take things so literal, Like you own the business. Chill!!!! More things to be worried about in the world than some plonker having a little laugh at how AP business model is now diversifying from how it was previously

Its your own ignorance. They were never fully corporate owned, not even close. Even today they have many "former" ADs front supposed boutiques that are not really boutiques. They are not retreading anything.

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by AshAP

Most of the quick money clowns that joined this forum during Covid seem to have left, unfortunately there are still one or two persistent stragglers though.


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Been around a LONG TIME

[jgottsman11]

For me, nothing else really excites me besides the 15300 I own. It's all I need from AP. While the Perp Calendars and open works are cool, they don't do it for me for the price

[SMD]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Been around a LONG TIME

First post 2022. Makes you a Covid member not a real one.

[Rickkk]

Originally Posted by Mini2

Been around a LONG TIME

But how much longer till you reply to Gareth?