Ranked: Worlds Best Cities

[gliazzurri]

Baltimore is an acquired taste. You need a lot of time to get to appreciate the enclaves and nuances.

[A971]

I would rather live in Osaka over more than half the cities ranked above it…


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Krash

That’s not sufficient data. If these areas weren’t part of a greater a city, they would be at the top of the list.

You still haven’t provided examples of zip codes or specific areas worse than what I listed.

It’s more sufficient than any data you’ve provided. Though I will admit it’s not the best data, it doesn’t break every city down to smaller areas.

However, please actually investigate some of those cities on the list I presented and you’ll see some are small parts of greater metro areas.

Whats intriguing though is the areas listed for Illinois and Pennsylvania are not the cities or areas you listed. Yet they have generally the same population.

I stand by my statement that there are areas just as bad as those you listed in every city with population >100k in the country.


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[austinp]

I watched those videos posted above. The LA and Philly footage is hard to watch.

Don’t do drugs people.


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[zengineer]

Of the top 10... I have been to three that I have zero desire to visit it ever again. I have been to three that I love and get back to any chance I get. The other 4 I've not visited,

I would not live long term in a single one of the 100. I could do a year in Paris and a few other cities I've visited. Last time I was in London I thought I had covid...completely lost my ability to taste and smell food. Then I remembered where I was.

I honestly don't know how people stand to live in large cities.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

I stand by my statement that there are areas just as bad as those you listed in every city with population >100k in the country.


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Nope. Not in terms of sheer size and square miles. Plus, I only posted one video and it was the section of Philly I mentioned. So I have no idea what you’re talking about there, but in Philly, it extends through multiple, multiple areas. So other videos in this thread are just a continuation and include other neighborhoods in Philly.


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Krash

Not in terms of sheer size and scale.


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Data to prove that?

Please remember, I stated “areas in every city with population >100k”. I’m not saying all of the entire city is bad.

However, the data I added to this thread debunks your opinion specifically regarding Kensington Park and West Garfield.

If you’re going to continue to discuss please provide some data before discrediting actual data provided just because you don’t agree with it. I’ll wait.


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Krash

Nope. Not in terms of sheer size and square miles. Plus, I only posted one video and it was the section of Philly I mentioned. So I have no idea what you’re talking about there, but in Philly, it extends through multiple, multiple areas. So other videos in this thread are just a continuation and include other neighborhoods in Philly.


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Well, your addition to this comment actually contradicts your earlier statement that it should be off zip codes and not “macro”. Which I agreed with. Now you’re saying the opposite.

And videos are subjective. Maybe there is no videos of worse places because it’s not even safe to drive through them?

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[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Data to prove that?

Please remember, I stated “areas in every city with population >100k”. I’m not saying any of the entire city is bad.

However, the data I added to this thread debunks your opinion specifically regarding Kensington Park and West Garfield.

If you’re going to continue to discuss please provide some data before discrediting actual data provided just because you don’t agree with it. I’ll wait.


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You posted a list of the most dangerous city in each state, based on FBI data regarding violent crimes per-capita. Only 17,000 people live in McKeesport, PA. Only 18,000 people live in East St. Louis. The per-capita numbers predictably look better for Chicago (2.7 million) and Philadelphia (1.6 million) because those are blended rates of good neighborhoods, bad neighborhoods, and everything in between. East St. Louis doesn’t have good neighborhoods because East St. Louis itself is a bad neighborhood in the St Louis metro.

To get a sense of the scale of crime in Chicago and Philly, look at the total amount of violent crime. And then look at the many neighborhoods ravaged by it.

Here’s another take on the same FBI data set you shared. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/crai...ety-inequality

In Chicago, here is how it breaks down by neighborhood. So in Fuller Park, 0.311% of people are being murdered annually. But it’s virtually all male victims, and men are the minority in neighborhoods like this, so let’s say men face a 0.7% annual murder rate in Fuller Park. But mostly it’s young men under 30 doing the murdering and being murdered, not the 30+ and 40+. Let’s limit it to the younger half of the men in Fuller Park and call it 1.4%… a 1.4% chance of being murdered in any given year is insane. And they face those odds every year. The cumulative likelihood of being murdered for a young boy growing up there would be well over 10%, maybe even 20%. And those are just the murders the FBI learned about. That’s what Krash is talking about — how averaged big city data obscures the pockets of absolutely bonkers violence.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

You posted a list of the most dangerous city in each state, based on FBI data regarding violent crimes per-capita. Only 17,000 people live in McKeesport, PA. Only 18,000 people live in East St. Louis. The per-capita numbers predictably look better for Chicago (2.7 million) and Philadelphia (1.6 million) because those are blended rates of good neighborhoods, bad neighborhoods, and everything in between. East St. Louis doesn’t have good neighborhoods because East St. Louis itself is a bad neighborhood in the St Louis metro.

To get a sense of the scale of crime in Chicago and Philly, look at the total amount of violent crime. And then look at the many neighborhoods ravaged by it.

Here’s another take on the same FBI data set you shared. https://www.chicagobusiness.com/crai...ety-inequality

In Chicago, here is how it breaks down by neighborhood. So in Fuller Park, 0.311% of people are being murdered annually. But it’s virtually all male victims, and men are the minority in neighborhoods like this, so let’s say men face a 0.7% annual murder rate in Fuller Park. But mostly it’s young men under 30 doing the murdering and being murdered, not the 30+ and 40+. Let’s limit it to the younger half of the men in Fuller Park and call it 1.4%… a 1.4% chance of being murdered in any given year is insane. And they face those odds every year. The cumulative likelihood of being murdered for a young boy growing up there would be well over 10%, maybe even 20%. And those are just the murders the FBI learned about. That’s what Krash is talking about — how averaged big city data obscures the pockets of absolutely bonkers violence.

17,000 and 18,000 is not by any means a “big city”. They’re both around the same population as the areas listed by Krash.

Also, I trust FBI data more than a realty companies data.

Also please understand that West Garfield is a suburb of Chicago. Kensington park is a suburb of Philly metro area. Just as East St. Louis and McKeesport are suburbs of larger cities. They’re all in the larger metro area and regarded as such.

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[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by Malum

and also Los Angeles is a city and a County not just S.F.

You misinterpreted. SF city and county is one and the same - the only one in CA. LA has multiple cities within LA county (Pasadena, El Monte, Alhambra etc). that's not the case with SF. Any county statistics from SF belong it the city itself, no suburbs or surrounding areas such as Marin, Sausalito etc.

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

17,000 and 18,000 is not by any means a “big city”. They’re both around the same population as the areas listed by Krash.

Also, I trust FBI data more than a realty company.

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The realty company didn’t make up those numbers. Those are the same murder rates known to law enforcement. You’re just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, and you don’t actually have the analytical skills to interpret a complex issue like this anyway.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

The realty company didn’t make up those numbers. Those are the same murder rates known to law enforcement. You’re just being argumentative for the sake of being argumentative, and you don’t actually have the analytical skills to interpret a complex issue like this anyway.

Apparently that makes two of us. At least I didn’t pay for a college degree.

A realty company is not a source. Figure you’d have learned that at some point during your analytics classes.

I’m discussing and asking for sources. Thus far I’ve been implied as being less smart than you and others yet I’ve actually supplied numbers from a factual source. Meanwhile those that are arguing and making personal attacks have provided and standing behind completely refutable sources. I.e. YouTube videos and a graph of crime rates by neighborhood presented by a realty company with zero source.

Aren’t you supposed to be an attorney?

Hopefully your clients get better research and due diligence than a graph made by a realtor to hopefully skew the crime rate so they can sell more houses in better areas.


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[brandrea]

Why don’t we get back to discussing the best cities on this list and what makes them so great.

We just love visiting Rome but that wasn’t always the case. I think for my wife and I, we used to sort of skip over it, thinking it was a tourist trap. The last few trips we’ve taken, we’ve come to appreciate it more and more. Trastevere is our favorite burb.

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Why don’t we get back to discussing the best cities on this list and what makes them so great.

We just love visiting Rome but that wasn’t always the case. I think for my wife and I, we used to sort of skip over it, thinking it was a tourist trap. The last few trips we’ve taken, we’ve come to appreciate it more and more. Trastevere is our favorite burb.

Our daughter lived in Rome for 6 months last year as she studied abroad. The wife and I went with her to settle her into an apartment in Trastevere. Having been to Rome about a half dozen times before, it felt different living there for our 2 weeks and more like a local. In addition to being the best open air museum in the world, living in Trastevere made us appreciate Rome even more!

[Krash]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Well, your addition to this comment actually contradicts your earlier statement that it should be off zip codes and not “macro”. Which I agreed with. Now you’re saying the opposite.

And videos are subjective. Maybe there is no videos of worse places because it’s not even safe to drive through them?

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Mr Goat, let's please put things into perspective. You're talking about cities >100k and saying that they have areas just as bad.

These ghettos and slums in Philadelphia have more than 250,000 people by themselves. Just look up population density maps of Philadelphia.

So in terms of size, scale, and population, these slums and ghettos of Philadelphia dwarf a typical city the size which you're trying to compare.

Honestly, at this point, you're just being unreasonable and argumentative.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

Our daughter lived in Rome for 6 months last year as she studied abroad. The wife and I went with her to settle her into an apartment in Trastevere. Having been to Rome about a half dozen times before, it felt different living there for our 2 weeks and more like a local. In addition to being the best open air museum in the world, living in Trastevere made us appreciate Rome even more!

That sounds like an incredible experience especially for your daughter! Trastevere definitely had a sort of bohemian vibe to it that we love.

I hope our daughter studies abroad one day.

She's just be accepted to a neuroscience program and is entering her first your of university next Sept.

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[Malum]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

You misinterpreted. SF city and county is one and the same - the only one in CA. LA has multiple cities within LA county (Pasadena, El Monte, Alhambra etc). that's not the case with SF. Any county statistics from SF belong it the city itself, no suburbs or surrounding areas such as Marin, Sausalito etc.

Gotcha

[daveathall]

Originally Posted by brandrea

Why don’t we get back to discussing the best cities on this list and what makes them so great.

We just love visiting Rome but that wasn’t always the case. I think for my wife and I, we used to sort of skip over it, thinking it was a tourist trap. The last few trips we’ve taken, we’ve come to appreciate it more and more. Trastevere is our favorite burb.

I liked SF and got married on board a Liner in Seattle Harbour, one of the prettiest cities I have been to is Vancouver and I wouldn't have minded staying longer.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by daveathall

I liked SF and got married on board a Liner in Seattle Harbour, one of the prettiest cities I have been to is Vancouver and I wouldn't have minded staying longer.

Vancouver really is a great place to spend some time. If you’re an outdoorsy type, you have so much to do within 1/2 hour outside of the city.

Of course the harbor and Stanley Park offer a lot if venturing out isn’t your thing.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Krash

Mr Goat, let's please put things into perspective. You're talking about cities >100k and saying that they have areas just as bad.

These ghettos and slums in Philadelphia have more than 250,000 people by themselves. Just look up population density maps of Philadelphia.

So in terms of size, scale, and population, these slums and ghettos of Philadelphia dwarf a typical city the size which you're trying to compare.

Honestly, at this point, you're just being unreasonable and argumentative.

What part of AREA’S of cities with population >100k do you not understand?

Seriously. You mentioned two different cities that are associated with a larger metro area. Chicago and Philly to be exact.

I am saying that any city or metropolitan area with over 100k citizens is going to have a ghetto/hood/disparaged area as bad or worse than the two you referenced. You literally need to do some research on both of those you referenced if you do not think they’re part of a metro area with population over 100k.

You also have not acknowledged the fact that you compared these small areas to anywhere in multiple different named states and then up to 43 more that could be included in your “etc” comment. Nor have you provided any factual evidence beyond a YouTube video and your opinion.

All this said and you refute anything anyone says that doesn’t align with your opinion, even if they’ve provided justifiable facts.

I suggest you go through each of my comments here and find where I stated anything other than “an area within a city over 100k people”. I assure you I did not because I agree with you that the areas this sort of thing happens in is small.

I’m not the one being unreasonable or argumentative. I haven’t made personal attacks on anyone. I’m having a discussion and asked for evidence and none has been offered to support your side. The only things that have been offered are disparaging my sourced documents and evading any actual answers by calling me argumentative.

Let’s sit back and think what you’ve actually contributed to this thread that’s irrefutable.

I can’t think of a single thing.

[Krash]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

What part of AREA’S of cities with population >100k do you not understand?

Seriously. You mentioned two different cities that are associated with a larger metro area. Chicago and Philly to be exact.

I am saying that any city or metropolitan area with over 100k citizens is going to have a ghetto/hood/disparaged area as bad or worse than the two you referenced. You literally need to do some research on both of those you referenced if you do not think they’re part of a metro area with population over 100k.

You also have not acknowledged the fact that you compared these small areas to anywhere in multiple different named states and then up to 43 more that could be included in your “etc” comment. Nor have you provided any factual evidence beyond a YouTube video and your opinion.

All this said and you refute anything anyone says that doesn’t align with your opinion, even if they’ve provided justifiable facts.

I suggest you go through each of my comments here and find where I stated anything other than “an area within a city over 100k people”. I assure you I did not because I agree with you that the areas this sort of thing happens in is small.

I’m not the one being unreasonable or argumentative. I haven’t made personal attacks on anyone. I’m having a discussion and asked for evidence and none has been offered to support your side. The only things that have been offered are disparaging my sourced documents and evading any actual answers by calling me argumentative.

Let’s sit back and think what you’ve actually contributed to this thread that’s irrefutable.

Kensington is not a city. We keep trying to explain this you you. It doesn't have an independent Mayor, a police force, or anything like that. There are no indepenent statistics. It is physically and literally part of Philadelphia . So the data gets washed out.

Philadelphia has a population of 1.5mm. The zip codes of Kensington and surrounding ghettos and slums of Philadelphia have a population easily over 250,000 people. If you know Philadelphia, and you know where the bad sections are, then you can easily deduce this simply by looking at this map

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/479070479110653167/

A small city of 100,000 has nothing like this in terms of size and scale. Not just in terms of population, but in square miles too.

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Krash

Kensington is not a city We keep trying to explain this you you. It doesn't have independent Mayors, a police force, or anything like that. There are no indepenent statistics. They are physically and literally part of Philadelphia and Chicago. So the data gets washed out.

Philadelphia has a population of 1.5mm. The zip codes of Kensington and surrounding ghettos and slums of Philadelphia have a population easily over 250,000 people. If you know Philadelphia, and you know where the bad sections are, then you can easily deduce this simply by looking at this map

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/479070479110653167/

A small city of 100,000 has nothing like this in terms of size and scale. Not just in terms of population, but in square miles too.

Kensington is a neighborhood that’s part of Philadelphia.

West Garfield is a neighborhood that’s part of Chicago.

Please see screenshots of the stats on each of those “neighborhoods”. If you look hard enough there is not just demographics but crime stats.

I may have misspoke by referring to these areas as cities. That said, they’re their own area connected to a greater metro area with their own statistics.

For at least the third time. Please present facts to this discussion instead of just opinions and arguments.

Just for clarification, continuing to try to refute my statements with opinions and not providing any sourced or irrefutable info is in fact arguing. I’ve been patiently discussing even though I’ve been attacked with personal attacks.


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[austinp]

Just trying to keep up here.

Krash says some cities have worse areas than other cities.

Goat says all cities have equally bad areas.

Is that correct?


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by austinp

Just trying to keep up here.

Krash says some cities have worse areas than other cities.

Goat says all cities have equally bad areas.

Is that correct?


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Krash initially said West Garfield Illinois and Kensington park Pennsylvania were worse than anywhere in Tx, Fl, Ms and a couple other states, then “etc”.

I called BS. As in my opinion and the facts that I posted, there’s even neighborhoods in both of those states that are worse than the ones he listed.

However, when he compared two small by comparison areas to (I quote) “anywhere” he completely shot his own argument out of the water because he didn’t compare area to area. I called that out.

I provided statistics from the FBI. He refuted them. Then he provided a YouTube video.

I called BS again.

Then apparently his buddy star fly decided to personally attack my intelligence, still providing no sources or facts other than a graph created by a Realty company that had no bearing on my initial complaint with Krash. Which btw has yet to be addressed by him.

I believe I have finally explained to both of them what I mean and they understand, hence the lack of response.

As far as I am concerned this discussion is done until either of the two provides factual evidence regarding their opinions.

And yeah, it’s ironic because at the beginning I told him I agreed with him about the zip code thing. He has since flip flopped that opinion.

But to answer your question. Yes essentially that’s the argument.


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[austinp]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Krash initially said West Garfield Illinois and Kensington park Pennsylvania were worse than anywhere in Tx, Fl, Ms and a couple other states, then “etc”.

I called BS. As in my opinion and the facts that I posted, there’s even neighborhoods in both of those states that are worse than the ones he listed.

However, when he compared two small by comparison areas to (I quote) “anywhere” he completely shot his own argument out of the water because he didn’t compare area to area. I called that out.

I provided statistics from the FBI. He refuted them. Then he provided a YouTube video.

I called BS again.

Then apparently his buddy star fly decided to personally attack my intelligence, still providing no sources or facts other than a graph created by a Realty company that had no bearing on my initial complaint with Krash. Which btw has yet to be addressed by him.

I believe I have finally explained to both of them what I mean and they understand, hence the lack of response.

As far as I am concerned this discussion is done until either of the two provides factual evidence regarding their opinions.

And yeah, it’s ironic because at the beginning I told him I agreed with him about the zip code thing. He has since flip flopped that opinion.

But to answer your question. Yes essentially that’s the argument.


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Thanks Goat!

Paris is my favorite city. Have some wonderful memories there.


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[Krash]

Originally Posted by austinp

Just trying to keep up here.

Krash says some cities have worse areas than other cities.

Goat says all cities have equally bad areas.

Is that correct?


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Quite honestly, I think Mr Goat might have a point when he says all cities with a population >100k have equally dangerous areas.

My point is that when it comes to size, scale, population and square mileage of these slums, it’s hard to top Philadelphia. The scale of magnitude is off the charts. There’s just nothing like it in a small city.

I used the Kensington section of Philadelphia as an example, but that’s just 1 section of a greater section of slums that are all interconnected


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[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Krash

Quite honestly, I think Mr Goat might have a point when he says all cities with a population >100k have equally dangerous areas.

My point is that when it comes to size, scale, population and square mileage of these slums, it’s hard to top Philadelphia. The scale of magnitude is off the charts. There’s just nothing like it in a small city.

I used the Kensington section of Philadelphia as an example, but that’s just 1 section of a greater section of slums that are all interconnected


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Thank you. I apologize for going so hard. I think we both were thinking essentially the same thing just extrapolating it differently and then wording it even more differently.

Also, thank you for keeping this discussion civil. I truly appreciate that.


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[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by MrGoat

Krash initially said West Garfield Illinois and Kensington park Pennsylvania were worse than anywhere in Tx, Fl, Ms and a couple other states, then “etc”.

I called BS. As in my opinion and the facts that I posted, there’s even neighborhoods in both of those states that are worse than the ones he listed.

However, when he compared two small by comparison areas to (I quote) “anywhere” he completely shot his own argument out of the water because he didn’t compare area to area. I called that out.

I provided statistics from the FBI. He refuted them. Then he provided a YouTube video.

I called BS again.

Then apparently his buddy star fly decided to personally attack my intelligence, still providing no sources or facts other than a graph created by a Realty company that had no bearing on my initial complaint with Krash. Which btw has yet to be addressed by him.

I believe I have finally explained to both of them what I mean and they understand, hence the lack of response.

As far as I am concerned this discussion is done until either of the two provides factual evidence regarding their opinions.

And yeah, it’s ironic because at the beginning I told him I agreed with him about the zip code thing. He has since flip flopped that opinion.

But to answer your question. Yes essentially that’s the argument.


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I think you repeatedly misinterpreted the data that you posted. The “most dangerous city in each state” list only included whole cities or municipalities. So what ended up winning in IL and PA, predictably, were smaller, impoverished, high-crime areas that just happened to be their own municipalities. The worst neighborhoods in Philly and Chicago can’t be on that list because they aren’t cities. Chicago isn’t on the list because it’s a massive nearly 3 million person city where the violence is concentrated in a subset of neighborhoods on the south and west sides. Philly is also a huge city with a mix of good and bad areas.

As for the worst neighborhoods in Philly and Chicago, you repeatedly posted that West Garfield, Kensington, etc. were not the most dangerous places in their respective states because they’re not on your list, but they are not cities and so were not eligible to be listed regardless of their dangerousness.

Overall your posts were combative, didn’t make any sense to me, and seemed to be debating common-sense points due to a lack of data. When neighborhood data was provided, you attacked the website that put together the bar chart, but that’s a red herring because the important thing is the data itself, which is from law enforcement sources, not who made the chart.

My conclusion from reading your posts was that you either didn’t understand certain aspects of this discussion, or you were intentionally operating in bad faith to have a bit of fun and stir the pot. Regardless, I am no longer interested in engaging you on this topic and hope you have an excellent weekend

[MrGoat]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I think you repeatedly misinterpreted the data that you posted. The “most dangerous city in each state” list only included whole cities or municipalities. So what ended up winning in IL and PA, predictably, were smaller, impoverished, high-crime areas that just happened to be their own municipalities. The worst neighborhoods in Philly and Chicago can’t be on that list because they aren’t cities. Chicago isn’t on the list because it’s a massive nearly 3 million person city where the violence is concentrated in a subset of neighborhoods on the south and west sides. Philly is also a huge city with a mix of good and bad areas.

As for the worst neighborhoods in Philly and Chicago, you repeatedly posted that West Garfield, Kensington, etc. were not the most dangerous places in their respective states because they’re not on your list, but they are not cities and so were not eligible to be listed regardless of their dangerousness.

Overall your posts were combative, didn’t make any sense to me, and seemed to be debating common-sense points due to a lack of data. When neighborhood data was provided, you attacked the website that put together the bar chart, but that’s a red herring because the important thing is the data itself, which is from law enforcement sources, not who made the chart.

My conclusion from reading your posts was that you either didn’t understand certain aspects of this discussion, or you were intentionally operating in bad faith to have a bit of fun and stir the pot. Regardless, I am no longer interested in engaging you on this topic and hope you have an excellent weekend

Thanks for the well wishes. Thankfully your opinion isn’t supported by a single fact, at least not one that you’ve provided. You are clearly not interpreting what I am saying. It’s OKAY. College degrees don’t get you every thing big guy. Krash understands now and as I said to him, I believe we are all talking about the same thing just don’t understand each other’s way of thinking. I’d recommend not insulting my intelligence again until you personally know me.

Question. Why is West Garfield considered a metro area of Chicago and Kensington Park considered a metropolitan area of Philladelphia if I’m wrong?

Also, how is McKeesport considered a metro area of Pittsburgh and East St Louis is considered a city inside of the metro area of Southern Illinois?

Are you saying they’re separate cities? Because Krash isn’t saying that. Also, I still say they’re no more dangerous than any disparaged neighborhoods connected to any city that had >100k residents.

Still waiting on legitimate data.


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