Are ADs offering discounts?

[Mini2]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

I was offered a couple different references over the last month, no discount though (just the opportunity to “build my Patek relationship”). What’ll be interesting is how the price increase coming February 1 will affect AD demand.

Someone else mentioned the 5212’s unavailability yet two are sitting in the lows 40s new on the secondary (before negotiating lower). Once the February price hike comes in to effect, the gap between MSRP and the secondary price will close which will put a true test on the Patek’s current customer base (i.e. whether customers will continue buying at ADs if they can buy the exact reference on the grey market for less). It is plausible Patek wanted this so they could capture more of the secondary price.

An example of this is the new 5270p. An unworn example on EWC for 209 that is now “on hold” so there are still buyers out there. Another is a new 5370p available for 205, a reference my AD made me bend over backwards and beg for (and even then was turned down). Yet, I can readily have it for 25% lower than MSRP right now.

Call me crazy but I see discounts coming back for these higher complication references. It’ll take some time to cycle through the system but I think discounts that used to be had pre-2020 will return in the near future.


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I don't know about discount but 'package' deals will be about.
Sports will be used to upset the slower pieces which can be had at substantial discount on the grey just like the 5370p

[dauster]

Originally Posted by Mini2

I don't know about discount but 'package' deals will be about.
Sports will be used to upset the slower pieces which can be had at substantial discount on the grey just like the 5370p

Isn’t 5370p an application piece ? I really dont think they will bundle that anytime soon. I think they don’t make many and I’m sure there is still enough people that care about their name on the cert. and their relationship
I would think pieces like 5205, 5905, 5320 etc are ones that will be bundled soon again.


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[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Mini2

I don't know about discount but 'package' deals will be about.
Sports will be used to upset the slower pieces which can be had at substantial discount on the grey just like the 5370p

Agreed, I can envision this being the route ADs take to divert discounting. Just like in 2020 I was contemplating the salmon 5270p, the AD outright told me they’d ensure I would also have the option to purchase a sports model alongside.

Perhaps if it gets bad enough discounting will be phased in.


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[dauster]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Agreed, I can envision this being the route ADs take to divert discounting. Just like in 2020 I was contemplating the salmon 5270p, the AD outright told me they’d ensure I would also have the option to purchase a sports model alongside.

Perhaps if it gets bad enough discounting will be phased in.


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which sports model did they offer you ? looking back seems like a great deal

[llngoc]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Agreed, I can envision this being the route ADs take to divert discounting. Just like in 2020 I was contemplating the salmon 5270p, the AD outright told me they’d ensure I would also have the option to purchase a sports model alongside.

Perhaps if it gets bad enough discounting will be phased in.


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That was my opposite experience in 2022. I was offered the green dial 5270P but needs to bundle with another GC in order to get the 5270p.

[JR16]

NO


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[Mattt]

I just bought a 5811 20% off retail price

dm me to know the secret and don't tell anyone about the link I will send you

[Partekular]

Originally Posted by llngoc

That was my opposite experience in 2022. I was offered the green dial 5270P but needs to bundle with another GC in order to get the 5270p.

That doesn’t sound good. Perhaps that explains his up-tick pricing of the 5811?

[l_chissle]

Originally Posted by Mattt

I just bought a 5811 20% off retail price

dm me to know the secret and don't tell anyone about the link I will send you

Think it's the same tutorial as was posted here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

[ts3]

Originally Posted by llngoc

That was my opposite experience in 2022. I was offered the green dial 5270P but needs to bundle with another GC in order to get the 5270p.

Crazy. So they forced a 5740/1G on you to be able to get the 5270P?

[Vasco]

I think there are big differences depending on ADs. I never had such "bundle" experience with the Salon I dealt with (I'm glad it's the official guideline for a Salon). Some people just want to push and sell when the money is available, that's not cool from a buyer's standpoint but that remains natural I guess.

ADs are totally different as they are independent sellers (especially prior to the last 15 years market evolution). Hence, I observe that AD can behave very widely from trustworthy to just looking to make as much money as possible, behaving like a bad grey dealer (good ones exist).

The production output was limited during the post-Covid 2 first years. Even if I think new comers will stay, many will leave, just like a part of the available budget has decreased.

Second hand dealers have taken an opportunity when Nautilus and Aquanauts' prices went through the roof, with a circa 6 months delay, to push classical pieces up. It worked but I believe from what we see that it isn't working anymore because the demand isn't there and the will to go for more classical pieces was already low (like before). I'm not sure prices will go back to pre-covid levels but not that far imho (for classical pieces). For Nauts and Aquas, I don't know where they'll land because it's also the kind of models that correspond to the more casual lifestyle we live today.

Hence, I believe classical pieces will trade below MSRP, except for new <2 years models or some PT or very specific references.

Each of us seem to have a very different experience regarding ADs, the region they are in. I'm not surprised some loose their AD status and I hope the good ones will be rewarded.

What will happen when China's market will recover again? I don't know.

[Tricolore66]

Totally agree. I’m very curious as to what a grey dealer would pay for a worn 5212a today. $30-32k? If I was in that business I think I’d be buying with the expectation of where that watch sells to a retail buyer in six months, not today.

Originally Posted by LJubel328

I was offered a couple different references over the last month, no discount though (just the opportunity to “build my Patek relationship”). What’ll be interesting is how the price increase coming February 1 will affect AD demand.

Someone else mentioned the 5212’s unavailability yet two are sitting in the lows 40s new on the secondary (before negotiating lower). Once the February price hike comes in to effect, the gap between MSRP and the secondary price will close which will put a true test on the Patek’s current customer base (i.e. whether customers will continue buying at ADs if they can buy the exact reference on the grey market for less). It is plausible Patek wanted this so they could capture more of the secondary price.

An example of this is the new 5270p. An unworn example on EWC for 209 that is now “on hold” so there are still buyers out there. Another is a new 5370p available for 205, a reference my AD made me bend over backwards and beg for (and even then was turned down). Yet, I can readily have it for 25% lower than MSRP right now.

Call me crazy but I see discounts coming back for these higher complication references. It’ll take some time to cycle through the system but I think discounts that used to be had pre-2020 will return in the near future.


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[ExplorerI]

Originally Posted by Tricolore66

Totally agree. I’m very curious as to what a grey dealer would pay for a worn 5212a today. $30-32k? If I was in that business I think I’d be buying with the expectation of where that watch sells to a retail buyer in six months, not today.

I doubt a big gray would offer that much. I’ve seen a couple be sold to end user for 34-37k

[dauster]

Originally Posted by ExplorerI

I doubt a big gray would offer that much. I’ve seen a couple be sold to end user for 34-37k

Where did you see that ? Moda?


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[codecow]

I’m going to test the 5167 market, going to pick mine out of the safe today. Selling that and a PAM 372 with the acrylic crystal.

Watchbox has a watch I want (cheap like 10k) they’ve had in inventory for a while so I am going to try and make a deal with them first.

[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by dauster

which sports model did they offer you ? looking back seems like a great deal

They asked me to give them three references and they'd then tell me if they could accommodate me.

I vividly remember the day because it was the day the first Covid case was reported in New York. As the week unfolded, I asked for my deposit to be refunded. There was too much uncertainty at the time so I ultimately decided to pass and happy that I did.

[dauster]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

They asked me to give them three references and they'd then tell me if they could accommodate me.

I vividly remember the day because it was the day the first Covid case was reported in New York. As the week unfolded, I asked for my deposit to be refunded. There was too much uncertainty at the time so I ultimately decided to pass and happy that I did.

yeah makes sense - I would have not done anything at that time as well

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

It's tougher to believe your AD has 5212 available for walk-in customers. I have confirmed and they do not have any for me.

I saw 5212a in Mexico City AD sitting in a case available to buy.
Price was $40,000 inclusive of VAT


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Nico81

I saw 5212a in Mexico City AD sitting in a case available to buy.
Price was $40,000 inclusive of VAT

Name of AD? You mean this AD currently got a 5212A for sale?

[dchang81]

Originally Posted by codecow

I’m going to test the 5167 market, going to pick mine out of the safe today. Selling that and a PAM 372 with the acrylic crystal.

Watchbox has a watch I want (cheap like 10k) they’ve had in inventory for a while so I am going to try and make a deal with them first.

a lot of stuff has been sitting in inventory on WB for awhile. some brands they've been dropping prices aggressively

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Name of AD? You mean this AD currently got a 5212A foe sale?

This was early December when i was picking up 5990/1a blue dial
Also had rose gold regulator which is stunning in my opinion and both versions( wg and rg) pilots and rose gold ladies pilot version
Must say, lot of references were available
5212 is very cool and quirky.. love hand painted dial


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[Nico81]

Originally Posted by codecow

I’m going to test the 5167 market, going to pick mine out of the safe today. Selling that and a PAM 372 with the acrylic crystal.

Watchbox has a watch I want (cheap like 10k) they’ve had in inventory for a while so I am going to try and make a deal with them first.

Pm me on 5167


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Nico81

This was early December when i was picking up 5990/1a blue dial
Also had rose gold regulator which is stunning in my opinion and both versions( wg and rg) pilots and rose gold ladies pilot version
Must say, lot of references were available
5212 is very cool and quirky.. love hand painted dial

Name of AD? I can help your AD move some of these available references.

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Name of AD? I can help your AD move some of these available references.

Sent a message


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[LJubel328]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

Name of AD? I can help your AD move some of these available references.

Why not buy from a reputable grey? I wouldn’t be surprised if you could negotiate down to MSRP plus tax. There are multiple unworn 2022 examples sitting in the low 40s.


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[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by LJubel328

Why not buy from a reputable grey? I wouldn’t be surprised if you could negotiate down to MSRP plus tax. There are multiple unworn 2022 examples sitting in the low 40s.

I'm not just buying the 5212A. I'm also adding 5231G, 5990/1R, 5712/1R and 5990/1A. That Mexican AD is the key to these watches at MSRP. If I help them move the unsold 5212A, I am doing them a big favour and should be able to ask for another popular model. Win-win for AD and me. Nico81 said they have many unwanted pieces for sale. I see a lot of opportunities here.

I have contacted them. Wait for my update.

[Nico81]

Originally Posted by Ichiran

I'm not just buying the 5212A. I'm also adding 5231G, 5990/1R, 5712/1R and 5990/1A. That Mexican AD is the key to these watches at MSRP. If I help them move the unsold 5212A, I am doing them a big favour and should be able to ask for another popular model. Win-win for AD and me. Nico81 said they have many unwanted pieces for sale. I see a lot of opportunities here.

I have contacted them. Wait for my update.

Glad to help
Mind you this was early December
Buying 5212a to get others on your wishlist will not happen unless you are local and buy jewelry ( i had to buy $30k of jewelry to get 5990a for example). I have Mexico permanent residency and work regularly in the city)

I gave you my recommendation in Pm

Also, would not approach them as if you are doing them a big favour. While maybe 8 pieces were in stock or so if i recall, it doesn’t mean they need your help to move them. They bundle or some form of it just like any other AD around the world. Being humble goes along way as well as patience

Remember, they get hundreds of messages daily so need to stand out somehow


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[Russell996]

Originally Posted by Nico81

5212 is very cool and quirky.. love hand painted dial

Not quite hand painted.

[BNA/LION]

Nope

[Ichiran]

Originally Posted by Nico81

Glad to help
Mind you this was early December
Buying 5212a to get others on your wishlist will not happen unless you are local and buy jewelry ( i had to buy $30k of jewelry to get 5990a for example). I have Mexico permanent residency and work regularly in the city)

They replied via whatsapp there is no 5212A in store. They do however have 7234R and G in stock but my wife already has a 7234 so that didn't work out. There are no other Patek available and I have lost some time again. They didn't even bother putting me on a waitlist so that they can give me the unwanted 5212A when they next receive it. Bizarre.