1803 White Gold

[asb396]

All - Im about to pull the trigger on this beautiful WG 1803 from 1974. There are a couple of things bothering me, "Registered Design" in the image below has a crooked letters, same for the day wheel. Any help would be much appreciated.

[asb396]

[offrdmania]

The first thing that jumps out is the dial and hands. It actually looks like the dial and hands are for a rose gold watch and the second hand is from a yellow gold watch, not a white gold watch. By the way, that is not a salmon colored dial as the seller claims.
There is so much wrong there. If the dial and hands have been swapped out then who knows what else has been tampered with.


EDIT: I found the seller on C24. They have quite a few pieces that have been "modified". It looks like they suck people in with their fancy photography. I would pass.

[asb396]

Thank you this is exactly why I love this forum. Appreciate your help very much. It seemed too unique to be true, the hunt for a WG 1803 continues.

[offrdmania]

They have it priced too high. If the price was lower then you could make it right. Not worth the headache IMO.

[carwashchris]

As said, dial and hands are wrong. And likewise if it's cheap enough you wait for a dial/hands to pop up.
But if they are trying to pass this off as shown, I would have concerns for what we can't see. Punt

[Richard Carver]

That's the finest WG 18XX I've seen in many years. Look where the crown touches the case you see there's a hump on the case that extends out about 2mm from the edge of the bezel. On the other side the case extends out past the rim of the bezel.

Go to google and look at 18XX images, on most these original features have long been polished off to varying degrees. I don't believe this watch has ever been hit with the wheel;

I wish I could make you noobs understand that in the 60s and 70s anything you wanted went, anything. If that watch was in the case with a rose gold DD and you wanted the gold dial on the white gold, light a smoke and sip your champers while we change it out for you Sir! The Rolex of today didn't start to come about until the 80s.

I'm not saying that's how that dial came to be there, maybe the dealer put it on there last week, I don't know but to see guys assure you that combo was never sold by the Rolex organization is simply wrong.

It drives me nuts to see a watch like thar passed over because of a consumable like a dial. The originality fetish needs to be drowned in the bathtub. Anything was possible in the wild 60s and 70s. You people are missing all the fun of vintage Rolex by ignoring it's fascinating history.

[rootbeer7]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

That's the finest WG 18XX I've seen in many years. Look where the crown touches the case you see there's a hump on the case that extends out about 2mm from the edge of the bezel. On the other side the case extends out past the rim of the bezel.

Go to google and look at 18XX images, on most these original features have long been polished off to varying degrees. I don't believe this watch has ever been hit with the wheel;

I wish I could make you noobs understand that in the 60s and 70s anything you wanted went, anything. If that watch was in the case with a rose gold DD and you wanted the gold dial on the white gold, light a smoke and sip your champers while we change it out for you Sir! The Rolex of today didn't start to come about until the 80s.

I'm not saying that's how that dial came to be there, maybe the dealer put it on there last week, I don't know but to see guys assure you that combo was never sold by the Rolex organization is simply wrong.

It drives me nuts to see a watch like thar passed over because of a consumable like a dial. The originality fetish needs to be drowned in the bathtub. Anything was possible in the wild 60s and 70s. You people are missing all the fun of vintage Rolex by ignoring it's fascinating history.

Everything you need to know right here. From a true expert

[watchlovr]

It would look bonny with a w/g diamond baguette dial.
Case/bracelet look great.

[Verdi]

Case looks good, but!

Dial wise.....that’s everyone’s guess. Normally, they would not leave the factory like that but, as it has been mentioned, dealers used to swap anything to make a purchase possible. There is no guarantee that this is the case here but it is a possibility.

In this case however, based on the fact that the seller is a dealer with multiple modified watches (as others said, I didn't check myself) I would pass.
I also don’t like the crooked 24 number in the date display.
Price wise.....16k usd. Just have a look around what other vintage DDs you can get for that figure!
You’ ll be pleasantly surprised. I would look for a full set if I wanna spend that much.

[330ci]

https://www.chrono24.com/rolex/plati...id11398045.htm

i'd go platinum and get the double quickset movement for a bit more.

[joli160]

Original DD dials are plenty for sale.

[Xelorpepsi]

In addition to what other members have already flagged, your best bet is probably to post in the "Wanting to Buy" section and acquire this watch from a well rated TRF seller.

[ronricks]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

That's the finest WG 18XX I've seen in many years. Look where the crown touches the case you see there's a hump on the case that extends out about 2mm from the edge of the bezel. On the other side the case extends out past the rim of the bezel.

Go to google and look at 18XX images, on most these original features have long been polished off to varying degrees. I don't believe this watch has ever been hit with the wheel;

I wish I could make you noobs understand that in the 60s and 70s anything you wanted went, anything. If that watch was in the case with a rose gold DD and you wanted the gold dial on the white gold, light a smoke and sip your champers while we change it out for you Sir! The Rolex of today didn't start to come about until the 80s.

I'm not saying that's how that dial came to be there, maybe the dealer put it on there last week, I don't know but to see guys assure you that combo was never sold by the Rolex organization is simply wrong.

It drives me nuts to see a watch like thar passed over because of a consumable like a dial. The originality fetish needs to be drowned in the bathtub. Anything was possible in the wild 60s and 70s. You people are missing all the fun of vintage Rolex by ignoring it's fascinating history.

Excellent post. When it comes to 1803, 18038, or even 18238 the dial and hands are plentiful to replace. I would buy the best condition watch and if you hate the dial they are readily available and affordable and easy to have replaced.

[swish77]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

That's the finest WG 18XX I've seen in many years. Look where the crown touches the case you see there's a hump on the case that extends out about 2mm from the edge of the bezel. On the other side the case extends out past the rim of the bezel.

Go to google and look at 18XX images, on most these original features have long been polished off to varying degrees. I don't believe this watch has ever been hit with the wheel;

I wish I could make you noobs understand that in the 60s and 70s anything you wanted went, anything. If that watch was in the case with a rose gold DD and you wanted the gold dial on the white gold, light a smoke and sip your champers while we change it out for you Sir! The Rolex of today didn't start to come about until the 80s.

I'm not saying that's how that dial came to be there, maybe the dealer put it on there last week, I don't know but to see guys assure you that combo was never sold by the Rolex organization is simply wrong.

It drives me nuts to see a watch like thar passed over because of a consumable like a dial. The originality fetish needs to be drowned in the bathtub. Anything was possible in the wild 60s and 70s. You people are missing all the fun of vintage Rolex by ignoring it's fascinating history.

Some fair points here, and in theory, I totally agree. However, in the collector world, originality is paramount, of course, and anything that raises doubt will hurt value and will be questioned, especially when it comes to the dial in a watch. (The case does look fantastic.)

Sure, this dial might have been switched by the AD back in the day, but as you point out, a dealer might have done it recently, so it raises doubt. Does that matter? Yes, to some people. Depends on the type of buyer/collector. But fair or unfair, it does affect value.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by ronricks

Excellent post. When it comes to 1803, 18038, or even 18238 the dial and hands are plentiful to replace. I would buy the best condition watch and if you hate the dial they are readily available and affordable and easy to have replaced.

I beg to differ.
Good dials are not plentiful for a white gold 4 digit DD. They come up for sale from time to time but a good one, not so often. So, when you find a good one is gonna be a bit more expensive.

YG DD dials are easier to find.

[carwashchris]

Originally Posted by verdi

i beg to differ.
Good dials are not plentiful for a white gold 4 digit dd. They come up for sale from time to time but a good one, not so often. So, when you find a good one is gonna be a bit more expensive.

Yg dd dials are easier to find.

x2

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by swish77

Some fair points here, and in theory, I totally agree. However, in the collector world, originality is paramount, of course, and anything that raises doubt will hurt value and will be questioned, especially when it comes to the dial in a watch. (The case does look fantastic.)

Sure, this dial might have been switched by the AD back in the day, but as you point out, a dealer might have done it recently, so it raises doubt. Does that matter? Yes, to some people. Depends on the type of buyer/collector. But fair or unfair, it does affect value.

I'd probably argue that perhaps originality is paramount many of the Rolex sport models, this doesn't really hold up when it comes to watches like Datejusts. I suspect the Day-Date is probably another one of these watches.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Yachtbuoy

I'd probably argue that perhaps originality is paramount many of the Rolex sport models, this doesn't really hold up when it comes to watches like Datejusts. I suspect the Day-Date is probably another one of these watches.

Huh?!
You are about to spend 15-16k on a watch and you don't care about originality?! Just because its not a GMT or a Sub?!

I personally care about it even if I buy an old Oyster Perpetual that costs me 2-3k. I think most of us do, no matter what the model is.

What is important in this case is that for 16k you can easily get another 4 digit or 5 digit DD, full set.......with no doubts on how the dial was paired with the watch.

[Wahlberg]

Originally Posted by Verdi

What is important in this case is that for 16k you can easily get another 4 digit or 5 digit DD, full set.......with no doubts on how the dial was paired with the watch.

I was looking at DDs a couple of days ago and all I see is shady watches with stretched out bracelets for 10-15k.

The 5 digit ones from early 2000s I used to see aren't there or I'm not looking well enough.

[Toronto Soup King]

If you love the case so much RSC will sell you a new dial. I changed mine from grey to blue, cost me an expensive service (which frankly it needed anyway) but I'm very pleased with the results. If Mr Carver thinks the case is the best he's seen in ages, I'd say buy the watch, then send it in to RSC. Dial choices when I was there were index black, white, silver, one or two with Romans, and the slate-blue index dial I chose. It was worth it to me, but please note I do NOT worry terribly about collectibility of my watches, I want nice watches for me to wear, and so I was unconcerned about the trade-in of the existing dial and hands. Kinda depends what you want out of the watch.

[zapokee]

16 k is about 20% too much, even if everything checks out. Which it might not.

But then, asking prices are always significantly higher than the seller will actually accept.

Also check whether the bracelet has enough links to fit your wrist. I know from experience that extra white gold President links are super-difficult to find.

[Yachtbuoy]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Huh?!
You are about to spend 15-16k on a watch and you don't care about originality?! Just because its not a GMT or a Sub?!

I personally care about it even if I buy an old Oyster Perpetual that costs me 2-3k. I think most of us do, no matter what the model is.

What is important in this case is that for 16k you can easily get another 4 digit or 5 digit DD, full set.......with no doubts on how the dial was paired with the watch.

There's "originality", and then there's originality with Rolex parts. It's literally just fact that people used to chop and change Datejusts/Day-Dates because they were popular watches. The all original parts, right out of the factory thing is only relatively recent...

[HarryLime]

Originally Posted by Yachtbuoy

There's "originality", and then there's originality with Rolex parts. It's literally just fact that people used to chop and change Datejusts/Day-Dates because they were popular watches. The all original parts, right out of the factory thing is only relatively recent...

Yes. In the 1970s, 1980s, maybe even the 90s, you could have your local AD swap daydate and datejust dials out for whatever stock they had, before you even purchased your watch. ADs would be sent loose exotic dials as "upgrades" if clients wanted them.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Yachtbuoy

There's "originality", and then there's originality with Rolex parts. It's literally just fact that people used to chop and change Datejusts/Day-Dates because they were popular watches. The all original parts, right out of the factory thing is only relatively recent...

It happened mostly with Datejusts, not so much with DDs, let alone with wg DDs. The wg DDs were pretty rare. The sellers (just as nowadays) were the yg versions.
Without any paperwork we ll just have work with probabilities here.

To put things into perspective....the person who buys a vintage wg DD is a wis. Its a niche watch. The wis who is gonna spend a premium on a 4 digit wg DD is gonna want for everything to check out. Otherwise its gonna be a nightmare to sell if you get bored with it....and its probably gonna take a loss.

I love the fat case, it is indeed rare to see one like this, but I would not spend anything near 16k for this watch.
So you have a better idea, my 5 digit wg DD was 12k.
They don’t come up for sale so often, I waited more than a year, but they do.....and with vintage its always a waiting game. The hunt is half of the fun.

[Richard Carver]

Originally Posted by Verdi

Huh?!
You are about to spend 15-16k on a watch and you don't care about originality?!

.

How do you have any idea what is original?

[asb396]

Originally Posted by Verdi

It happened mostly with Datejusts, not so much with DDs, let alone with wg DDs. The wg DDs were pretty rare. The sellers (just as nowadays) were the yg versions.
Without any paperwork we ll just have work with probabilities here.

To put things into perspective....the person who buys a vintage wg DD is a wis. Its a niche watch. The wis who is gonna spend a premium on a 4 digit wg DD is gonna want for everything to check out. Otherwise its gonna be a nightmare to sell if you get bored with it....and its probably gonna take a loss.

I love the fat case, it is indeed rare to see one like this, but I would not spend anything near 16k for this watch.
So you have a better idea, my 5 digit wg DD was 12k.
They don’t come up for sale so often, I waited more than a year, but they do.....and with vintage its always a waiting game. The hunt is half of the fun.

Hahahah I’ll take the backhanded compliment! it’s been almost a year on the hunt for WG 1803 but to be completely honest, I don’t care if I take a loss on this one. I have a decent collection of all original vintage all acquired through patience and finding the right seller / price, this will end up being a daily for me and will be one of the last 3-4 I would sell. Sharp case and the interesting combination make this a fun one to wear. If it’s worth more in the future, great! If not I’ll enjoy it plenty. Just wanted to make sure there aren’t any massive red flags. The case is too good, I’m still working through it but am truly in enamored with this 1803.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by asb396

Hahahah I’ll take the backhanded compliment! it’s been almost a year on the hunt for WG 1803 but to be completely honest, I don’t care if I take a loss on this one. I have a decent collection of all original vintage all acquired through patience and finding the right seller / price, this will end up being a daily for me and will be one of the last 3-4 I would sell. Sharp case and the interesting combination make this a fun one to wear. If it’s worth more in the future, great! If not I’ll enjoy it plenty. Just wanted to make sure there aren’t any massive red flags. The case is too good, I’m still working through it but am truly in enamored with this 1803.

You can definitely negotiate the price down.

[Verdi]

Originally Posted by Richard Carver

How do you have any idea what is original?

Your assumptions are as good as mine!

[Recaro18]

Dial might be incorrect..

love the 1803's or any of the 5digit WG DayDates especially when case is thick and shows the original brushing on the lugs!