So.... is the 6263 NON Exotic dial Daytona considered a Paul Newman?

[Yazo]

From what I can gather the PN's are mostly considered to be the exotic dial 6263, 6239, and 6241's. But I was reading Jake's Blog the other day and came across this:

http://rolexblog.blogspot.com/2002/0...n-daytona.html

And I quote:

"The stainless steel Rolex Daytona [Reference 6263] with the black dial and black bezel insert that Paul Newman is wearing in the above photo as well as the photos below would look just like this one. Notice, that this watch has screw-down protectors on the two chronometer buttons, unlike the 6241 with the white dial that we already examined"

In another article it states:

When I asked Mr. Newman about these theories, he stated that he was unaware of how his name became attached to the watch, and he didn't recall even wearing a Daytona in Winning. Furthermore, he stated that his first Daytona, and the one he currently wears, was given to him by his wife in 1972, the same year he started his professional racing career. It is worth mentioning that the aforementioned watch is not a Paul Newman (exotic dial) model at all, but rather appears to be a Daytona (model 6263), with black dial and white registers.
http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rol...n_daytona.html

So what gives? Are PN's ONLY the exotic dial, 3 color Daytona's or ir the 6263 NON exotic dial considered a PN as well? Because apparently Paul Newman wore the 6263 NON exotic dial for quite some time...

Thoughts?

[JEC]

Regardless of what Paul actually wore, the exotic dials are what are considered "Paul Newman Daytonas" and they are what command the premium over the non-exotic dials. History means nothing! The market determines all!

[escudoturbo]

Rather akin to "Steve McQueen" Explorer II.

[Welshwatchman]

His "proper" watch was indeed the gifted 6263 from Joanna, standard black dial with white subs.

He did wear the exotic dial watch though it was reported that the name apportioning had occurred prior to his ownership of it. It was also a gift though had none of the value to him as the other watch.

[padi56]

Afraid today most dealers call any vintage Daytona a Paul Newman. The only true Paul Newman models that for most collectors are models 6239 and 6241 exotic cream dial non screw down pushers with exotic three colour dial and square markers in the sub dials.Many call the 6263 Paul Newman's but they did not come into production till late 1970s and were in production till 1988 but now with screw down pushes and dont normal bring the mega prices of say the 6239-6241 exotic dials.Now why did Rolex stop making these models,well first IMHO they were very very poor sellers at the time.Second they were manual wind and then everyone wanted automatic watches.Third Rolex had never made a chronograph movement they mainly used movements from ETA Valjoux.Its ironic today some of the most valuable Rolex watches dont even have a Rolex made movement.But in todays Daytona fever market, there quite a lot of faked dials out there, so buyers do you home work before parting with any cash.

[Yazo]

Originally Posted by escudoturbo

Rather akin to "Steve McQueen" Explorer II.

That makes a lot of sense as Steve M. never even wore an Expy II!! At least with the PN Daytona they got it somewhat close.

Thanks for feedback everyone!

[BASSETHOUNDS]

The "PN" comes from the Italian market . At some point a "peoples" magazine posted a picture of Paul Newman wearing his Daytona and the craze started . At those days Rolex AD's in the US couldn't get rid of the things , some people saw the opportunity to buy them a $800 and took them to Italy and sold them for the double .
Later a similar thing happened when G. Agnelli was spotted in Sardinia wearing a SS 16520 .. we all know what happened .

[jake]

Double post error. Moderator could you please remove this one?

Jake

[jake]

Hi Yazo,

You ask a very good question–one that puzzled me to no end.

I must say I am only a researcher. I had zero to do with any of the naming or nomenclature. When I first saw the term "Paul Newman Daytona" it was in an Antiquorum auction catalog. Naturally I was curious, just like you, to learn the genesis of this naming.

The irony as I recall, is they watch I was looking at on the Antiquorum site had a Ferrari red dial, which they referred to as a "Paul Newman Daytona." Years later, I was told by John Goldberger that the red exotic dial Daytona watches had fake dials!!!

So I assumed initially that the white exotic dial was the Paul Newman Daytona, but I kept hearing dealers and collectors referring to the standard black dial Daytona Paul Newman also wore, as a Paul Newman Daytona. Of course I would ask the question "I thought it was just the white exotic dial that was a Paul Newman", to which they would respond, "No. He wore both."

So it kind of made sense to me. Also, I noticed Paul Newman must have lost or given away his exotic white dial Daytona, because after the early 1990s, I never saw him wear it again–but there of photos of him wearing his original black-dial Daytona up until the end of his life.

Also, I discovered he wore at least three other stainless Rolex Daytona models later in life. Does that make them "Paul Newman Daytona" models? Your guess is as good as mine?

I also noticed that people kept referring to the "Steve McQueen Explorer II [Reference 1655, Orange Hand]" and the "Jean-Claude Killy Triple-Date" so I kept searching for photos of them wearing those supposed watches. The challenge was that I could not find one photograph of either.

The supreme irony is that Steve McQueen never wore an orange hand Explorer 1655, but Jean-Claude Killy did!!! So the 1655 Explorer deserves to be referred to as the "Jean-Claude Killy, Orange Hand Rolex Explorer [Reference 1655].

You can see the Jean-Claude Killy Rolex ads for the Orange Hand Explorer here:

http://rolexblog.blogspot.com/search...0Killy%20Rolex

Also Steve McQueen only ever wore his trademark Rolex Submariner 5512, so perhaps the 5512 should be referred to as "The Steve McQueen Submariner."

You can see all the photos of Steve McQueen wearing his 5512 here:

http://rolexblog.blogspot.com/2009/1...e-mcqueen.html

The most fascinating thing in all of this, is that the we as human beings reason by analogy, thus if we see somebody famous wearing something cool, or driving a cool car, we tend to associate the product with that person. Many brands have benefitted from this form of advertising over the years, and the "Power of Association" is amazing.

I probably confused you even more, and I hope this helps.

Warmest regards,

Jake

Originally Posted by Yazo

From what I can gather the PN's are mostly considered to be the exotic dial 6263, 6239, and 6241's. But I was reading Jake's Blog the other day and came across this:

http://rolexblog.blogspot.com/2002/0...n-daytona.html

And I quote:

"The stainless steel Rolex Daytona [Reference 6263] with the black dial and black bezel insert that Paul Newman is wearing in the above photo as well as the photos below would look just like this one. Notice, that this watch has screw-down protectors on the two chronometer buttons, unlike the 6241 with the white dial that we already examined"

In another article it states:

When I asked Mr. Newman about these theories, he stated that he was unaware of how his name became attached to the watch, and he didn't recall even wearing a Daytona in Winning. Furthermore, he stated that his first Daytona, and the one he currently wears, was given to him by his wife in 1972, the same year he started his professional racing career. It is worth mentioning that the aforementioned watch is not a Paul Newman (exotic dial) model at all, but rather appears to be a Daytona (model 6263), with black dial and white registers.
http://www.qualitytyme.net/pages/rol...n_daytona.html

So what gives? Are PN's ONLY the exotic dial, 3 color Daytona's or ir the 6263 NON exotic dial considered a PN as well? Because apparently Paul Newman wore the 6263 NON exotic dial for quite some time...

Thoughts?

[Idle Swede]

Jake,

When you make a long post like that it's enought with 1 time.

[Yazo]

Originally Posted by jake

Hi Yazo,

You ask a very good question–one that puzzled me to no end.

I must say I am only a researcher. I had zero to do with any of the naming or nomenclature. When I first saw the term "Paul Newman Daytona" it was in an Antiquorum auction catalog. Naturally I was curious, just like you, to learn the genesis of this naming.

The irony as I recall, is they watch I was looking at on the Antiquorum site had a Ferrari red dial, which they referred to as a "Paul Newman Daytona." Years later, I was told by John Goldberger that the red exotic dial Daytona watches had fake dials!!!

So I assumed initially that the white exotic dial was the Paul Newman Daytona, but I kept hearing dealers and collectors referring to the standard black dial Daytona Paul Newman also wore, as a Paul Newman Daytona. Of course I would ask the question "I thought it was just the white exotic dial that was a Paul Newman", to which they would respond, "No. He wore both."

So it kind of made sense to me. Also, I noticed Paul Newman must have lost or given away his exotic white dial Daytona, because after the early 1990s, I never saw him wear it again–but there of photos of him wearing his original black-dial Daytona up until the end of his life.

Also, I discovered he wore at least three other stainless Rolex Daytona models later in life. Does that make them "Paul Newman Daytona" models? Your guess is as good as mine?

I also noticed that people kept referring to the "Steve McQueen Explorer II [Reference 1655, Orange Hand]" and the "Jean-Claude Killy Triple-Date" so I kept searching for photos of them wearing those supposed watches. The challenge was that I could not find one photograph of either.

The supreme irony is that Steve McQueen never wore an orange hand Explorer 1655, but Jean-Claude Killy did!!!

The most fascinating thing in all of this, is that the we as human beings reason by analogy, thus if we see somebody famous wearing something cool, or driving a cool car, we tend to associate the product with that person. Many brands have benefitted from this form of advertising over the years, and the "Power of Association" is amazing.

I probably confused you even more, and I hope this helps.

Warmest regards,

Jake

Jake I am honored to have you post in my thread!!! Thanks so much. And no you didn't add to to the confusion by any means. I think I get it - it just comes down to someone slapping a celeb name to a watch - whether that person wore it or not.

[jake]

I agree, and what I hope I have achieved by publishing all my findings, is putting an end to false association. As I have said before, any auction house today that offers a Steve McQueen Explorer is either dumber than a doornail, or intentionally trying to increase the price of the watch to make money via this false association.

With Jake's Rolex World, I have attempted to not only put together the magnificent pieces of the Rolex history puzzle, but also remove all the pieces that were not correct. In particular, I try to always separate the fact from the fiction–after all, truth is great!!!

Originally Posted by Yazo

Jake I am honored to have you post in my thread!!! Thanks so much. And no you didn't add to to the confusion by any means. I think I get it - it just comes down to someone slapping a celeb name to a watch - whether that person wore it or not.

[jake]

:bart moon::ag ree::ar gh:

Originally Posted by Idle Swede

Jake,

When you make a long post like that it's enought with 1 time.

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by padi56

Afraid today most dealers call any vintage Daytona a Paul Newman. The only true Paul Newman models that for most collectors are models 6239 and 6241 exotic cream dial non screw down pushers with exotic three colour dial and square markers in the sub dials.Many call the 6263 Paul Newman's but they did not come into production till late 1970s and were in production till 1988 but now with screw down pushes and dont normal bring the mega prices of say the 6239-6241 exotic dials.Now why did Rolex stop making these models,well first IMHO they were very very poor sellers at the time.Second they were manual wind and then everyone wanted automatic watches.Third Rolex had never made a chronograph movement they mainly used movements from ETA Valjoux.Its ironic today some of the most valuable Rolex watches dont even have a Rolex made movement.But in todays Daytona fever market, there quite a lot of faked dials out there, so buyers do you home work before parting with any cash.

Yyyep...