Are 1675/8 « sunburst » / tiger-eye dials original or service dials?

[MarcelGuinchard]

The 1675/8 in brown is mostly found with a matte brown dial... (mine below):


However, I have seen some good looking cases, with a “sunburst” or “tiger eye” dial, that changes colour depending on how the light hits it.
Basically a dial with the same sunburst effect seen on the brown 16758, but with an applied coronet.

A well know example here is the one from [mention]NOPDK [/mention]:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=682576

(you can clearly see the « sunburst » effect, as well as thé applied coronet)

And another one just sold at Phillips:
https://www.phillips.com/detail/rolex/CH080121/124



****
My question is: are those “sunburst” dials original to the 1675/8, or service dials?

One reason for my doubt is that both have an offset « I » for SWISS, which [mention]MorningTundra [/mention] identifies as a sign of service dial.
Source:https://www.instagram.com/p/CKDPoA3r...=12zdt23s1yhwz

http://www.vrfm.io/gold-gmt-masters


Thanks everyone!

[springer]

I'm not quite convinced on the offset "I" in SWISS being a service dial. I've discussed this offset "I" with others that are knowledgeable of the GMT vintage era and none of them have bought into the offset SWISS "I" being a service dial.

These watches have been around for decades and these offset SWISS "I" dial comments that they are service dials is very recent. I know Rolex used genuine issue dials as service replacements, so this might also be the case here. I'm open to anything but would like to see more on it.

[baumare]

Dear Mr. Springer I understand your perplexity about this dials because there are not to many valid information about it. I am not sure how some expert came up with this idea, I wish that the literature could help more

This is a 70' AD for the 1675/8 and you can see that has the I of SWISS aligned
Screen Shot 2021-05-09 at 6.00.51 PM.jpg

Screen Shot 2021-05-09 at 6.01.09 PM.jpg

On this from the 80' you can see the 16753, it's hard to see but looks like the I interrupting the second at 30'
Screen Shot 2021-05-09 at 7.08.24 PM.jpg

And here with the newer dial and the sapphire crystal and SWISS-T<25
Screen Shot 2021-05-09 at 7.08.29 PM.jpg

It could that be because the "offset I" was not fund in the catalogs it was judged as service?
We learn that often there is no certainty on how Rolex operate, so it would be nice to have a personal experience where someone had the original dial change it with a service...

[springer]

There was more than one dial manufacture for each watch type during its production run. There are also dial variations for each model during the years of manufacture. This could be a possible explanation on why the root beer GMT dials have slight variations. Also, just because a dial is not depicted in a catalogue does not make it a service dial. Rolex reused watch photos through the years in their owner's manuals. Also, if you look at the 1680 Submariners, the red Sub dial is depicted in the owner's manual until the end of production around 1979.

There are several variations of the Submariner 1680 dials, there are several variations of the GMT 1675 and 16750 dials...and so on and so on through each models production years.

Although I do not claim to know everything about these GMT root beer "I" dials, I would like to see more solid information that indicates these "I" root beer dials are service dials.

[herts9]

Service or original, it's amazing, so there's that

[zapokee]

I don't know if "sunburst" is the right word for this dial.

Sunburst radiates out from the center, like rays bursting out of the sun (hence the name, I guess ).

This GMT appears to be more of a matte dial with an interesting reflective effect. Or maybe it's just the photo.

[NOPDK]

Originally Posted by zapokee

I don't know if "sunburst" is the right word for this dial.

Sunburst radiates out from the center, like rays bursting out of the sun (hence the name, I guess ).

This GMT appears to be more of a matte dial with an interesting reflective effect. Or maybe it's just the photo.

as the owner of this piece I'd like the answer to this question myself. Personally consider "sunburst" to refer to the metallic dials have radials out from center of dial. This dial is a gloss gilt dial with lacquer surface with same type of dial construction as my 66 gilt 5513 and 71 tropical 1680/8. This dial was never matte. I think calling it a "tiger eye" seems appropriate as it has that effect. Dial looks brown in low light and takes on Burgundy tones with any bright light in a tiger eye pattern. There is no radial lines like on the sunburst dials. I have an 80's 1675 with brown sunburst dial and looks completely different.

Ridley serviced this piece in 2019. When he serviced piece he felt he was the first person to open case back since production. Below is picture of inside of case back with first marking from Phillip during that service. I'm not one to throw around "unpolished" with my pieces however this watch case and bracelet are as pristine as I've seen on vintage gold piece. The bezel is as sharp as my new modern rolex pieces and the case bevels and lug holes speak for themselves. I know of one other 1675/8 that was a few hundred numbers away in serial number that has identical dial construction. It is my understanding that last two years of 1675/8 production there was a switch to this gloss dial.

I'll load pictures later today. have to get to work

[NOPDK]

the case pictures are from Ridley during service. Whatever format he takes this in takes a lot of resizing to get to post on forum.

[NOPDK]

.

[NOPDK]

dial picts in different light

[NOPDK]

example of sunburst metallic dial on my 16753 to compare different way this dial catches the light

[MarcelGuinchard]

I agree with [mention]zapokee [/mention], “sunburst” is probably it the right word. Sorry English is not my English language, I did not know how to call it.

[mention]NOPDK [/mention] ‘s 1675/8 is as pristine as it gets, had never seen an example so clean

[MarcelGuinchard]

I have chatted with @[mention]MorningTundra [/mention] on another forum, and here is what he thinks (similar to what you explained [mention]springer [/mention])

1. he does not think that “tiger eye with offset I ” 1675/8 dials are service dials, but are later dials.
This seems to be confirmed by the fact that the 2 following watches have a later (5million) serial number:
https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=682576
https://tropicalwatch.com/watches/cvtk

2. He “thinks but yet to be confirmed” that “the earlier nipple dials were made by Beyler (with their brand on the back of the dial) and the later (and service) dials were made by Stern (with numerals and star engraved on the back of the dial)”

This hypothesis looks credible to me.

[zapokee]

Originally Posted by NOPDK

as the owner of this piece I'd like the answer to this question myself...

Thanks for the pics. Whatever we call it, it's an absolute beauty!

[MarcelGuinchard]

Andrew Hantel from gmtmaster1675 just answered the question of this thread on his website: https://gmtmaster1675.com/brown-dials/
@nopdk your dial is a so-called « mark 5 », with serial matching Andrew’s documentation.
Andrew has such an excellent website, you should all have a look at it.
cc @springer

[NOPDK]

Originally Posted by MarcelGuinchard

Andrew Hantel from gmtmaster1675 just answered the question of this thread on his website: https://gmtmaster1675.com/brown-dials/
@nopdk your dial is a so-called « mark 5 », with serial matching Andrew’s documentation.
Andrew has such an excellent website, you should all have a look at it.
cc @springer

Awesome! Thanks so much for following up and sharing this knowledge. Great resource. The mark 5 lacquered dials are my personal favorite.

[roadie1]

Originally Posted by NOPDK

dial picts in different light

Beautiful!


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[rootbeer7]

I was always of the opinion that the early dials were matte.

[Traveling]

All I can offer is that here is a pic of a non-service dial from that period (1675/3).

0227220951 copy.jpg

[NOPDK]

.

[springer]

...

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by baumare

Dear Mr. Springer I understand your perplexity about this dials because there are not to many valid information about it. I am not sure how some expert came up with this idea, I wish that the literature could help more

This is a 70' AD for the 1675/8 and you can see that has the I of SWISS aligned
Attachment 1220312

Attachment 1220313

On this from the 80' you can see the 16753, it's hard to see but looks like the I interrupting the second at 30'
Attachment 1220316

And here with the newer dial and the sapphire crystal and SWISS-T<25
Attachment 1220317

It could that be because the "offset I" was not fund in the catalogs it was judged as service?
We learn that often there is no certainty on how Rolex operate, so it would be nice to have a personal experience where someone had the original dial change it with a service...

What a great reference!

[pdagregado]

Originally Posted by NOPDK

example of sunburst metallic dial on my 16753 to compare different way this dial catches the light

Stunning detail!

[shedlock2000]

I’m not of much help here regarding the 1675/8, but I was once told that my 16753 service dial was a ‘Bellini’ dial. It had the same distinctive colour effect in light and had working lume (which is why I assume that it was a service dial).

That dial did have some thread-like tracks on it near the indices, but it didn’t respond like most sunburst dials — rather it had a sort of grainy shimmer to it all over. It also changed colour a lot in various lights.

I made a very poor decision to sell the watch some time ago. Bad Steven.








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