PROOF....Rolex keep stolen serial number records.

[AH0RSEY]

Originally Posted by tommy91

Have you weighed it first to make sure it's 100% hammer

As this is a rolex forum would it be appropriate to ask "can I wear my hammer in the bath" or "which hammer would you chose between these two...." or "my hammer does not have a warranty card will I be able to get it serviced"......

oh and.... sorry to the OP - thats hard to take when you've done all the legwork to actually find one you thought looked legit online too! hope it gets sorted, maybe the insurer will release it if it was stolen and recovered.

[Chewbacca]

15

[GMT Aviator]

UPDATE.....UPDATE.....UPDATE....UPDATE

So, turns out the watch I sent to RSC which they reported back to me as being stolen....ISN'T! GO FIGURE!!

I can't even begin to explain the grief and aggravation this has caused me, no thanks to Rolex themselves.

Upon receiving the news that the watch had been reported stolen in Germany in 2003, I was forced to file a dispute with the seller via ebay and PayPal as well as through Amex to obviously attempt to claim my money back.

I was also forced to file a police report here in the UK to generated a crime number, needed by PayPal in order to process my claim for legal reasons.

Now obviously there were literally DAYS spent on the phone and writing emails here, there and everywhere, and no sooner had I completed this process when Rolex call me back with the news that the watch is removed from their stolen database and they are now happy to service the watch and return it to me as the rightful owner!

I mean...WTF?!! Have they ANY idea the trouble they have caused me trying to sort this out? To say I was pi**ed with them is an understatement!

Despite the relief of knowing it wasn't stolen, Rolex had now created a stolen watch from nothing...read on......

The next problem was that I had registered the watch as stolen myself as part of the PayPal process to attain a crime report number, and the seller in Poland had to do the same with the Warsaw police department, so that he could make a claim against the dealer he had taken the watch from before he sold it on to me.

So before I could actually keep the watch, I had to satisfy myself that these crime reports could be undone because they have the serial number of the watch stated on them. If I was to take ownership, then those crime reports needed to be nulled and void, both here in the Uk, and in Poland.

I can say now the process of dissolving the crime reports has begun and will be resolved, but the time taken to do this started to go outside the PayPal window of opportunity to make a claim, so as Rolex are now happy the watch is mine, and they have assured me it has been removed from their worldwide stolen database, I have dropped my claim against the seller and instructed Rolex to service the watch as originally instructed.

I have to say, that my seller throughout all of this has been exceptionally good. He even wrote to Rolex himself as soon as they flagged the watch as being stolen, explaining that he had sold me the watch. He also re-assured me that he would repay my money in full without the need of waiting for PayPal to reverse the charge, but he understood my need to start the claim process. I couldn't have asked for better, because he, like me, was just as taken back by the news it had come up flagged as a stolen watch.

Finally, on one of my many calls to the RSC to sort this mess out, I asked Rolex if they would consider servicing the watch for free to go some way to make up for all the inconvenience they have put me through. (I was already paying for a new dial and hand set as well as a new crown. I didn't expect them to foot the bill for those, but the basic service itself I thought they might consider doing free as a sign of goodwill). The short answer to my request was NO. They explained that they stood by their stolen watch database but agreed, that in this case which was unusual, there was maybe a case for reviewing the data they keep on file and updating it appropriately. Something had happened in 2003 for them to register this watch as lost, but subsequently that data had not been backed up and in their own words, 'the process was timeline expired". Trying to get an exact explanation of what that phrase meant from them turned out to be an exercise in futility.

Now I'm not having a pop at Rolex here. I think they are a great company and I too stand by their database of stolen watches and the good it brings, but I also feel that a company like Rolex, could do more to admit when they might have made a mistake and try and make it right, but it seems in their own minds.....they don't make mistakes.

My dealings with Rolex over this incident gave me a bit of a peak behind the veil of secrecy that shields this company from most of our view and I've learnt a thing or two which I don't wish to go into here, but I'm just glad the whole thing is resolved and am now looking forward to getting the watch back at the end of January when its ready.

I would also like to thank a particular forum member here. He knows who he is when he reads this, and his input to this problem for me turned out to be invaluable. He is a very well respected member on this forum and I can see why. Thank you. You know who you are.

If anyone in the future has the unfortunate experience of finding out from Rolex that they have flagged your watch as stolen, I can explain this story in more detail, but for the sake of this thread, thats about it in a nutshell.

A learning exercise it has been, but one I could have done without.

[HeartRolex]

Friend, you have my deepest sympathy for having endured this craziness. I also agree that Rolex should have offered to pay some portion of the repairs as a small consolation for what you've been through. It really is a lovely watch and I hope you'll enjoy it in good health once returned.

[hdrazor251]

Wow!!!

I'm speechless.

[Exploradori]

Wow, what a story. There's no doubt that Rolex should offer something for the inconveniences caused. Such a company depends greatly on its reputation as a firm you would want to make additional business into the future. They should offer you a free service and apologize. It's nothing for them, but means a lot to you and fellow TRFers.

[GLADIATOR]

As they say"All's well that ends well".
The sweet feeling of wearing the watch, will soon remove the sour taste left from the Rolex experience.
Enjoy a fantastic watch
Adam

[Andad]

Wow, grab it and be happy....

[henrylee]

Crazy story but happy ending! Beautiful watch btw!

[520Matt]

I read this thread when you first posted an just circled back to it. Wow! Looking forward to you receiving that beauty back.

[circles]

I sure hope you got it all in writing from Rolex not phone calls as you say.

[GMT Aviator]

Originally Posted by circles

I sure hope you got it all in writing from Rolex not phone calls as you say.

Yes, I have it all in writing from Rolex. The first letter telling me it was listed as stolen, and then another letter I received later on saying it isn't!

[Knappo 1307]

I would not have Rolex service it at all, especially after that dog and pony show. I'd ask for it back, like yesterday and have an independent with a Rolex acct service it...

[GMT Aviator]

I'll be pressing them again regarding the service charge when I go collect it in person armed with a fistful of paperwork from Interpol!

[GMT Aviator]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

As they say"All's well that ends well".
The sweet feeling of wearing the watch, will soon remove the sour taste left from the Rolex experience.
Enjoy a fantastic watch
Adam

You're not wrong there Adam!

[RichM]

What a mess. Hopefully the reports can be redacted, Rolex corrects their data base, and you my friend deserve a free service from Rolex. They created the mess and should make it right.

Good luck and thanks for sharing your story.

[TempoKing]

Originally Posted by hambone1983

is anything on ebay NOT fake or stolen?

The majority of items sold at eBay... are NOT fake or stolen


@GMT Aviator
I am glad you got your watch back
...its more important than having had your money back..

In my entire Rolex trading career I had two watches kept by the RSC
1. a Datejust 1601 and 2. a Submariner 5513
The RSC had Police reports for both watches in their premises
with the owners ID photocopied - a normal procedure if stolen locally.
On the Sub I got my money back from the dealer I bought it from when
I gave him the Rolex receipt with all the relevant numbers
- But not for the Datejust - I did not record the transaction properly
for this one (Flea-Market buy) - I lost out.

...as Adam (Gladiator) suggested...the Rolex National and International
stolen watch data base...is private, because if it was public (?)
... no Rolex...would have been ever recovered....Duh..

[Tarandy]

In England if rolex say your watch is stolen they are not allowed to keep it. They have to return it as it's not there's to keep. Wrong I know, but true in U.K.

[Knappo 1307]

Originally Posted by Tarandy

In England if rolex say your watch is stolen they are not allowed to keep it. They have to return it as it's not there's to keep. Wrong I know, but true in U.K.

OP is from England...

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by Tarandy

In England if rolex say your watch is stolen they are not allowed to keep it. They have to return it as it's not there's to keep. Wrong I know, but true in U.K.

I don't think so.
If item is stolen Rolex will hold it , until they can determine who owns it.
Rolex do not break laws.
A

[circles]

Stolen or not you can't keep something that isn't yours, period. Rolex doesn't own any stolen watches therefore they can't by law keep them.

[GMT Aviator]

The Rolex was retained by the main RSC in South East England.

Interestingly, PayPal required a written statement from Rolex saying they had 'seized' the watch, a word Rolex were not prepared to put in writing.

I think you'd have a hard time demanding a watch back that they have locked in their vault for safekeeping whilst they determine if it is stolen or not, something they did swiftly once their system flagged it.

In all honesty, I wouldn't have wanted it back if it was stolen and I don't think many people would. The best intention is there on the part of Rolex, it's just in this case, it would have been better for me if they had done their admin properly before being as hasty as they were telling me it was stolen. A point I made to them VERY clearly because of the trouble they have caused me.

[terryuk]

Originally Posted by GMT Aviator

The best intention is there on the part of Rolex, it's just in this case, it would have been better for me if they had done their admin properly before being as hasty as they were telling me it was stolen. A point I made to them VERY clearly because of the trouble they have caused me.

So effectively, SOMEONE in the UK Rolex outfit has, by their own mistakes, negligence, incompetence or whatever, caused you to waste your time, effort, and money, plus the worry and stress etc...

I think I would be writing to the management of that UK company with an itemised invoice-style list of time and effort spent, and request that they refund my costs.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by circles

Stolen or not you can't keep something that isn't yours, period. Rolex doesn't own any stolen watches therefore they can't by law keep them.

They do not want to keep a stolen Rolex.
They hold it until the correct owner can be identified.
They follow the law, not their emotions

[circles]

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

They do not want to keep a stolen Rolex.
They hold it until the correct owner can be identified.
They follow the law, not their emotions

Law says they can't "hold" something unless they are given a court order to do so. No emotion; law.

[Danny83]

Hopefully they fix this for you thats a nice watch

[drefhill]

did you asked them to send you a paper saying the watch was stolen ?
Because eBay ask that, i bought a fake, i knew it was fake but i wanted to see a fake to see how it looks like and test the process of getting my money back with a small amount in case of if one day i get scamed with a much bigger amount, i tought the guy would admit it was fake and just send me the money back but he refused and said it was obvious that it was fake so i knew i was buying a fake WTF ? and the Rolex dealer refused to give me that paper so i had to open a claim with the Police but they couldn't because they needed a paper from rolex saying the watch was fake... finally i asked the rolex dealer to call the police and tell them so i could open the claim, but it was much more complicated that i initially tought and it took much more time. But finnaly i've got all my money back, the thing that bother me is that i see the seller is allowed to continu selling on eBay without any mention about it and i couldn't give him a bad review.

[GLADIATOR]

Originally Posted by circles

Law says they can't "hold" something unless they are given a court order to do so. No emotion; law.

And that is why they immediately appoint a lawyer in that country to apply and handle it legally.

They can hand it to the police OR they can put it in the hands of a court.

But they are NOT stealing the watch
a

[77T]

Originally Posted by drefhill

did you asked them to send you a paper saying the watch was stolen ?

This is the key point - but not the rest about dealing in fakes. A demand letter is in order methinks.

Originally Posted by GLADIATOR

And that is why they immediately appoint a lawyer in that country to apply and handle it legally.



They can hand it to the police OR they can put it in the hands of a court.



But they are NOT stealing the watch

a

I agree to a point, but they are depriving an individual of personal property until it is surrendered to an officer of the courts as property believed to be stolen.

Originally Posted by circles

Law says they can't "hold" something unless they are given a court order to do so. No emotion; law.

Sort of...a complaint against Rolex and a writ of replevin is the OP's option to begin a claim to his rights in the property. Replevin is the best civil action to recover any watch Rolex refuses to return to you. In a replevin action, you must prove a legal right to the possession of the property, such as ownership of it, and that Rolex has wrongful possession of the property.

Of course, their answer to the writ may give the OP some hint of what's to come. But the immediate relief is to keep the watch in the U.K. versus it being shipped to Germany. Let the U.K. Courts decide who has rightful ownership.

[GMT Aviator]

Yes, I received official letters in the first instance, from Rolex, advising me the watch was stolen.

An individual cannot be deprived of property if that property thought to be his/hers is stolen property. The individual has no claim to stolen property.

Asking how can they 'hold' something classified as stolen is a mute point. You cannot claim back stolen property if you were not the rightful owner in the first instance.

As a stolen Rolex can pop up anywhere in the world at any time at any RSC, different to the country where it was originally registered as stolen, then the RSC from the country where the police report was filed, have to instruct the police, local to where the watch is being held by Rolex, to collect it from them and have it sent back to the RSC where the watch is registered as stolen. This is what happens in reality. Adam is absolutely correct with this point in his post above.

If you wish to argue the point with police officers tasked with collecting a stolen watch such that it can be re-patriated to its legal owner....good luck!

Just to make the point again....the watch in this thread is NOT stolen property as it turns out. It was just flagged as such in error, but none the less, the whole process caused much aggravation I could have done without.

I would suggest to anyone reading this that if they buy a stolen watch that ends up being retained by an RSC, you're going to have a hard time getting it back as 'yours' regardless of what legal process you think you can follow.

Stolen means stolen.....you have no legal claim to it what-so-ever despite what you might think.

Rolex are simply doing their best to ensure stolen watches registered with them with official police reports etc to back up that claim, are re-patriated to rightful / legal owner, whether that be an individual or an insurance company that may have paid out for the watch if it was the subject of a claim.