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Old 25 June 2019, 08:43 AM   #31
Bearxj86
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The AP brand - on the upswing




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Old 25 June 2019, 11:04 AM   #32
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Wait wait wait, are you actually gauging upswing with Grey market prices and dealers BS lack of supply. I’m not going name names but I was at an AD considering a ROC, they made it clear they could get me whatever I wanted if I paid right now full price. AND there were 4 Offshores in the case, 1 gold and they had a bracelet ROO too.

Please fully explain, exactly what was stupid about my comment. You must be a young newbie to AP. I’ve had an AP on my wrist since 2003. How long have you?
one thing we need to agree is AP's market power has improved compared to 2-3 years ago when we can get all offshore models and royal oak models at discount. this to me is upswing. And it was not that difficult to get 15202 back then. you can go back to the boutique ask for a 15202st or 15407 see if you can get one with full deposit? upswing is a relative term, comparing AP now vs. back then.
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Old 25 June 2019, 03:55 PM   #33
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Catering to the rappers is a not the greatest strategy either... no loyalty there.



Even them are looking past AP now.


Loyalty only goes so far. Most sports brand ambassadors get paid and don’t sell anywhere near as many as some rappers can with a hit record.

I’m glad everyone is over AP now lol more watches for me.
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Old 25 June 2019, 04:20 PM   #34
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+1......

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Originally Posted by gb-man View Post
loyalty only goes so far. Most sports brand ambassadors get paid and don’t sell anywhere near as many as some rappers can with a hit record.

I’m glad everyone is over ap now lol more watches for me.
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Old 25 June 2019, 04:28 PM   #35
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Not a fan of the direction AP is taking. Going to a boutique only model will likely back fire when the economy reverses course.

Value retention is great, but what value are we retaining when we can't get the pieces we want?

Brand image gets tarnished when they have outfits like Westime operating their boutiques. Just my humble opinion.
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Old 25 June 2019, 04:29 PM   #36
Bearxj86
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Loyalty only goes so far. Most sports brand ambassadors get paid and don’t sell anywhere near as many as some rappers can with a hit record.

I’m glad everyone is over AP now lol more watches for me.


I’m just getting started my friend :)




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Old 25 June 2019, 05:24 PM   #37
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I’m just getting started my friend :)




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Old 25 June 2019, 08:36 PM   #38
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I’m just getting started my friend :)




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This Code looks great BTW.


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Old 25 June 2019, 09:19 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by mickyd329 View Post
Not a fan of the direction AP is taking. Going to a boutique only model will likely back fire when the economy reverses course.

Value retention is great, but what value are we retaining when we can't get the pieces we want?

Brand image gets tarnished when they have outfits like Westime operating their boutiques. Just my humble opinion.
But I think if the economy tanks and global demand falls they will react and offer discounts and changes in supply, I feel AP are more dynamic and reactive than PP and Rolex and will move with the times. Now they are getting tighter and more discriminatory but then so was Rolex at first and there were lots of threats to go to Omega etc and boycott the brand, but now a year or two later they are still riding high. I think we all know the score in this market and when things open up I think people will mostly be forgiving if they still like the watches.
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Old 25 June 2019, 10:51 PM   #40
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I think most of it has been covered here already and I do not see them on an upswing at all, actually the opposite. Almost their entire offering is 41mm+, which in my opinion, is insane. Yes, there is a place for 41,42 and 44 models but they need more 39-40mm options. Yet they keep the 15202 at 39mm as a carrot to get people to buy other crap they do not want, a la Rolex. Sorry, I'm not going to do that or travel to a boutique since I do not have one nearby, just not worth it to me. Glad I have my 15300 and FC Diver, that's all I need from AP at this time.
Agree 100% with this.

The only watch that appeals to me from the current catalogue is the 15202, which I recently just re-acquired.
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Old 26 June 2019, 02:23 AM   #41
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I think the % of customers who actually know the difference between a 15202 and 15450 or 15500 is very small. Like 5% or less. Probably similar percentage of customers obsess over fit to the point they would think one of the other RO offerings does not fit them properly.

We are certainly within our rights to do so as this is our hobby and passion but for most I do not think the 15202 is a target.

The price has however escalated because watch connoisseurs and dealers said hey if the 5711 is going for xyz and this is the original anyways why the hell shouldn't we be buying this instead!
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Old 26 June 2019, 07:48 AM   #42
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Agree 100% with this.

The only watch that appeals to me from the current catalogue is the 15202, which I recently just re-acquired.
Was walking around today, got bored and started to look at other peoples watches. Just random people passing down in mid town area near restaurants/bars.

Was wearing my 42mm Offshore and compared to what I was seeing, i.e large 42-46mm watches, it looked dainty and small. Mainly due to the smaller dial size, saw many large plate like watches with huge dials.

Feel like the trend is going up in size amongst the non WIS crowd, only people who consider +42mm are us WIS.
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Old 26 June 2019, 10:21 PM   #43
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What’s currently hot is inconsequential to a WIS. The flippers move from brand to brand picking their bones. That doesn’t change how great a brand is to the educated wearer if currently their favorite brand isn’t “flipper hot”. My issue with a lot of the current watch buyers are that they have no clue what their personal style is or know what they like. These type of buyers bounce from hot brand to hot model following the herd trying to buy what they feel is fashion relevant. It’s the “should I buy?” Or “what holds the best value?” questions you shouldn’t have to ask.
I always tend to gravitate to brands when they are a slight down turn to purchase at a non inflated price point. To by a SS Daytona at $24k is stupid when I can buy a AP ROOC for similar money. I look for and count on a certain level of depreciation.
I always let the msrp be my guide into what the company feels it is worth and then evaluate the current market price.
After 30 years I tend to always be right and end up with a watch collection I love.
It’s all cyclical and you must be a long term player in this game.
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Old 26 June 2019, 11:24 PM   #44
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I’m just getting started my friend :)




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Very nice!
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Old 26 June 2019, 11:38 PM   #45
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...My issue with a lot of the current watch buyers are that they have no clue what their personal style is or know what they like. These type of buyers bounce from hot brand to hot model following the herd trying to buy what they feel is fashion relevant. It’s the “should I buy?” Or “what holds the best value?” questions you shouldn’t have to ask...
...I look for and count on a certain level of depreciation...
...After 30 years I tend to always be right and end up with a watch collection I love.
It’s all cyclical and you must be a long term player in this game.
WOW, +1 to this, all day.
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Old 27 June 2019, 07:37 AM   #46
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Gentlemen,

Don’t get me wrong - AP has always had decent brand management. However over the past year I think they’ve done an exceptional job marketing and the boutique focus has really slowed down discounting and price erosion to the point that the brand may be go through another renaissance. I’m becoming a real fanboy.

What has the experience been like you the rest of you? Do you like where they are headed?
They have certainly slowed down discounting. Came across the following thread in another subform and 25% discount was a possibility 7 years ago

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=212393
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Old 27 June 2019, 10:41 AM   #47
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They have certainly slowed down discounting. Came across the following thread in another subform and 25% discount was a possibility 7 years ago

https://www.rolexforums.com/showthread.php?t=212393
My first two APs were bought new from AD for aroound 25% off and that was 2015 and 2017. 15400st and 26400IO.

edit:actually I bought several used in between but who is counting lol
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Old 28 June 2019, 10:05 AM   #48
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Gentlemen,

Don’t get me wrong - AP has always had decent brand management. However over the past year I think they’ve done an exceptional job marketing and the boutique focus has really slowed down discounting and price erosion to the point that the brand may be go through another renaissance. I’m becoming a real fanboy.

What has the experience been like you the rest of you? Do you like where they are headed?
I have the exact opposite impression. Boutique service is much worse than the ADs they are replacing. And the code watches are a disaster.
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Old 28 June 2019, 11:51 AM   #49
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I have the exact opposite impression. Boutique service is much worse than the ADs they are replacing. And the code watches are a disaster.

Unless you know the sales figures on the Code 11.59 watches and AP’s goals, I think it’s premature to call them a disaster. Not to everyone’s liking, but neither were the Millenaries.
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Old 28 June 2019, 12:01 PM   #50
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My first two APs were bought new from AD for aroound 25% off and that was 2015 and 2017. 15400st and 26400IO.

edit:actually I bought several used in between but who is counting lol
Same with me with my Safari and Diver in 2010 and 2011. I do regret not pulling the trigger on a 15202, brand spanking new that the sales lady at the Palazzo in Vegas a few years ago pulled the stickers off for me even though I implored her not too
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Old 28 June 2019, 12:39 PM   #51
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Unless you know the sales figures on the Code 11.59 watches and AP’s goals, I think it’s premature to call them a disaster. Not to everyone’s liking, but neither were the Millenaries.


Millenaries are super slow sellers according to the ADs I’ve talked to.
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