For when a ceramic Tudor Black Bay?

[doramas]

A watch like the Tudor Black Bay should have a ceramic bezel. A watch worth about 3,500 euros should have a ceramic bezel, as cheaper divers like Longines Hydroconquest, Certina DS PH200M and many more wear them.

What do you think?

The excuse that you're paying homage to historical watches doesn't convince me

[mui.richard]

I prefer the matte look of the current aluminum bezel insert. And if I wanted a Cerachrome insert I'd have went with a Sub.

Besides, specs never tell you where the "cheaper alternative" lack in terms of finishing.

Look at the bezel teeth and the crude finishing on the hands...a ceramic bezel doesn't mean anything when the rest of the watch doesn't measure up.

Now compare that with the bezel teeth on the Black Bay.

[zjd168]

you are assuming ceramic bezel is an upgrade and better than aluminium. This is an opinion but not necessary a fact, and there are still a lot of rolex/tudor enthusiasts prefer the aluminum bezel.

[EtherBrown]

Or get a Pelagos?


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[Etschell]

Originally Posted by doramas

A watch like the Tudor Black Bay should have a ceramic bezel. A watch worth about 3,500 euros should have a ceramic bezel, as cheaper divers like Longines Hydroconquest, Certina DS PH200M and many more wear them.

What do you think?

The excuse that you're paying homage to historical watches doesn't convince me

Pelagos

[Oyster Sauce]

Although I generally prefer the vibe that the aluminum bezel contributes too (I favor vintage flavors), I also understand the OP’s point. So many brands that are significantly less expensive than Tudor are able to source ceramic affordably, even “homage” brands like Squale and Steinhart at <$1000 USD.

Regardless of cost and supply chain for ceramic, from a business model perspective I don’t see Tudor offering ceramic. My take on things right now, in the dive watch category: Rolex divers represent the modern luxury approach...larger cases, premium bracelets, and the arguably blingier ceramic bezels (not to mention sunburst shiny dials). For those who long for a return to the 5-digit approach, the Tudor BB58 is the offering from Wilsdorf...similar dimensions and aluminum fittings. This allows for separation of product lines and brands.

Hopefully we’ll see more offerings in the BB58 form factor, as I don’t think Rolex will return to that format anytime soon. For those who want Wilsdorf “Sub” in ceramic, for better or worse, a Rolex is the only foreseeable option (*besides the excellent Pelagos)

[doramas]

Originally Posted by Etschell

Pelagos

I know, but we're talking about the Black Bay.

It doesn't have to do with Tudor having another watch with a ceramic bezel.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by doramas

I know, but we're talking about the Black Bay.

It doesn't have to do with Tudor having another watch with a ceramic bezel.

Ceramic doesnt have much to do with the heritage aspect that the model came out under. I own both. The aluminum bezel is just as nice to me.

[mui.richard]

Originally Posted by Oyster Sauce

Although I generally prefer the vibe that the aluminum bezel contributes too (I favor vintage flavors), I also understand the OP’s point. So many brands that are significantly less expensive than Tudor are able to source ceramic affordably, even “homage” brands like Squale and Steinhart at &lt;$1000 USD.

Regardless of cost and supply chain for ceramic, from a business model perspective I don’t see Tudor offering ceramic. My take on things right now, in the dive watch category: Rolex divers represent the modern luxury approach...larger cases, premium bracelets, and the arguably blingier ceramic bezels (not to mention sunburst shiny dials). For those who long for a return to the 5-digit approach, the Tudor BB58 is the offering from Wilsdorf...similar dimensions and aluminum fittings. This allows for separation of product lines and brands.

Hopefully we’ll see more offerings in the BB58 form factor, as I don’t think Rolex will return to that format anytime soon. For those who want Wilsdorf “Sub” in ceramic, for better or worse, a Rolex is the only foreseeable option (*besides the excellent Pelagos)

This.

Also it's not difficult to see - why do you think the Pelagos has a ceramic bezel with a matte finish?

Product differentiation.

[EtherBrown]

Originally Posted by doramas

I know, but we're talking about the Black Bay.

It doesn't have to do with Tudor having another watch with a ceramic bezel.

But you say you don’t buy the homage thing as an excuse. It doesn’t need to be, it could just their justification and logic within their product lineup. A debate can’t be had in isolation of all the factors at play.


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[doramas]

Originally Posted by Etschell

Ceramic doesnt have much to do with the heritage aspect that the model came out under. I own both. The aluminum bezel is just as nice to me.

Even though it's nice, you can't deny that ceramics is a step up in quality.

I like the 5-digit Submariner better, but I know that the 6-digit ceramic Submariner is better

[EtherBrown]

Originally Posted by doramas

Even though it's nice, you can't deny that ceramics is a step up in quality.

I like the 5-digit Submariner better, but I know that the 6-digit ceramic Submariner is better

A step up in durability that you perceive as a quality improvement. That’s where different tastes and perspectives of what we want in watches come into play.

Edit: the ease of swapping out aluminum inserts for example, is functional improvement over the cost of replacing damaged ceramic. There are always trade offs and newer isn’t always better. Just different with its own set of considerations.

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[Etschell]

Originally Posted by doramas

Even though it's nice, you can't deny that ceramics is a step up in quality.

I like the 5-digit Submariner better, but I know that the 6-digit ceramic Submariner is better

To me the biggest difference between 5 and 6 digits is the bracelet and clasp. The bezel construction is better made which includes the insert for sure. Also the maxi dial.

[Brny11]

Originally Posted by zjd168

you are assuming ceramic bezel is an upgrade and better than aluminium. This is an opinion but not necessary a fact, and there are still a lot of rolex/tudor enthusiasts prefer the aluminum bezel.

This.


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[1165dvd]

I recall reading a post from micro brand owner Steve Laughlin of Raven Watches that the cost difference for him to do an aluminum bezel vs ceramic bezel was negligible. It came down to design. I can’t imagine it is for Tudor either.

Count me in the camp that loves how aluminum bezels look. And though they don’t patina how they once did, a few scuffs here and there don’t bother me at all. To me, some ceramic bezels look very harsh when paired with a matte dial. Though I did appreciate the look on my Seamaster.


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[beshannon]

Originally Posted by doramas

A watch like the Tudor Black Bay should have a ceramic bezel. A watch worth about 3,500 euros should have a ceramic bezel, as cheaper divers like Longines Hydroconquest, Certina DS PH200M and many more wear them.

What do you think?

The excuse that you're paying homage to historical watches doesn't convince me

Why?

Should have is not a convincing argument.

[beshannon]

Originally Posted by doramas

Even though it's nice, you can't deny that ceramics is a step up in quality.

I like the 5-digit Submariner better, but I know that the 6-digit ceramic Submariner is better

Please explain how a different material "steps up quality"?

[Jocke]

Don't ask for much, soon they will cost $5-6K when Rolex now is over $10K.

[Etschell]

Originally Posted by Jocke

Don't ask for much, soon they will cost $5-6K when Rolex now is over $10K.

They already do for the chrono s&g.

[iTreelex]

nope

[Dan Pierce]

Disagree. The charm of the BB line is the vintage aesthetic. A shiny ceramic bezel would take away from that. If you want thoroughly modern, The Pelagos is it.

Now it would have been nice to see a sapphire Pepsi insert on the BB GMT that also glowed same as the dial & hands. If given a somewhat semi gloss sheen and kept the muted BB GMT colors, it could have harkened directly back to the original Rolex GMT bakelite inserts. Even at an extra $1K in MSRP Tudor could never make enough to satisfy the demand.
dP

[kieselguhr]

Don’t forget what is actually powering the watch itself? The MT5402 features a lot of tech typically utilized in higher end watches. This includes the use of a free sprung balance, the silicon hairspring, 70 hour power reserve, balance bridge vs balance cock, and bidirectional rotor ball bearings.



If anything, Tudor desperately needs a half link or a better adjustment system on their BlackBay line of bracelets

[brucethemanlee]

Originally Posted by doramas

A watch like the Tudor Black Bay should have a ceramic bezel. A watch worth about 3,500 euros should have a ceramic bezel, as cheaper divers like Longines Hydroconquest, Certina DS PH200M and many more wear them.

What do you think?

The excuse that you're paying homage to historical watches doesn't convince me

if you think tudor black bay lacks value then go buy Longines or Certina or Tudor Pegalos, or Rolex Sub.

Tudor is doing it in aluminum for the black bays.

[RYARE]

Other than the vintage appeal, might it be the fact that if Tudor BB went ceramic on its sports models, it might potentially cannibalize Rolex sales?

[Likestheshiny]

I prefer the matte look of the current aluminum bezel insert. And if I wanted a Cerachrome insert I'd have went with a Sub.

Matte ceramic bezels exist -- Omega offers them on Planet Oceans, for example. It just so happens that Rolex prefers 'em shiny. I prefer the shiny look myself in general, but I would probably find it out of place on a vintage-inspired watch.

I agree with the Op that a watch at the price point really shouldn't have an aluminum bezel insert. However, I also think the BB is generally so well executed for its price that I don't have a problem with it.

Watch buyers as a whole have concluded that ceramic and sapphire are more premium than aluminum and plastic, and Tudor/Rolex certainly knows this. But if people are snapping up the BB58 anyway, it seems like Tudor knows what it's doing. Although, I do wonder if any other Tudors are considered successful. Certainly, the original BB and Pelagos seem to shelf-warm, and Tudor's other offerings aren't even on the radar. I feel like the BB58 is holding the torch for the whole brand at this point.

[Juan Luis]

If Tudor does the BB58 in ceramic with better bracelet, it might make the Rolex Submariner seem overpriced, in my opinion.

[Fabrice M]

I actually disagree, one of the reason I like the Tudors is the fact that they don’t use ceramic bezels. I want the fading, I want the scratches ....

[mui.richard]

Originally Posted by kieselguhr

Don’t forget what is actually powering the watch itself? The MT5402 features a lot of tech typically utilized in higher end watches. This includes the use of a free sprung balance, the silicon hairspring, 70 hour power reserve, balance bridge vs balance cock, and bidirectional rotor ball bearings.



If anything, Tudor desperately needs a half link or a better adjustment system on their BlackBay line of bracelets

This for sure! The spring-loaded tensioning system on the Pelagos is ingenious. Whilst the clasp on the Black Bay line sucks in terms of facilitating wearing comfort.

[Speedfreek28]

It’s hard to get away from the “homage excuse” because the black bay is naturally a classic looking timepiece and putting a bright ceramic bezel on it detracts from it’s overall appeal. The only way to thoroughly mess up an aluminum bezel is if you thrash the watch, but with that being said, weren’t Tudor and Rolex meant to be worn and last whatever you can throw at it?

[Cru Jones]

Yes, using aluminum is a cheap move by Tudor. As for “vintage aesthetic”, there’s only a very small percentage of watch buyers that care about that. And Tudor using fake rivets on the bracelet means they don’t really care about authenticity anyway. A matte ceramic insert would do the job just fine on the 58.