Another US Navy warship in a collision

[Ruud Van Driver]

This time, USS John S. McCain and a tanker; happened in the Malacca Strait at 0520 hours (local) today. The real bad news is that there are ten servicemen missing on McCain. Thoughts and prayers for their safe recovery.

[GradyPhilpott]

Troubling news to be sure.

This isn't really a good time to be losing ships in the Pacific.

A Navy guided-missile destroyer, the USS John S. McCain, collided with a commercial vessel east of Singapore early Monday morning local time, the Navy said.

There were 10 sailors missing and five injured, the Navy said. "Four of the injured were medically evacuated by a Republic of Singapore Navy Puma helicopter to a hospital in Singapore for non-life threatening injuries," the Navy said in a statement. "The fifth injured Sailor does not require further medical attention."

The collision with the merchant ship Alnic MC occurred east of the Straits of Malacca and Singapore at 6:24 a.m. Japan Standard Time, as the McCain was on its way for a routine port visit in Singapore, the Navy said.

"Initial reports indicate John S. McCain sustained damage to her port side aft," the Navy said, adding that a search and rescue mission was already underway.

The ship is currently sailing under its own power and heading to port, according to a Navy statement.

The search and rescue effort was being aided by tug boats out of Singapore, as well as the Singapore Navy ship RSS Gallant, Singapore navy helicopters and a Police Coast Guard vessel.

Photo caption:

The USS John S. McCain after it collided with a commercial vessel east of Singapore on Aug. 20, 2017.

Read more:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/uss-john-mc...ry?id=49327836

[GB-man]

What in the world...

Hope our boys turn up safe.

[TheVTCGuy]

What the &$@ is going on?

[Ruud Van Driver]

I got the call for this earlier this morning but there's not much I can do with my knee in the mess it's in and me on crutches. I could have found out exactly what happened.

What I find mildly troubling here is that I was told the collision happened OPL east of Singapore yet local news is reporting that it happened in the Malacca Strait, which is to the west (busy strip of water between west coast of Malaysia and Sumatra).

[BravoOne]

Zero excuse for any ship to come within a mile of this destroyer without the crew knowing about it beforehand. Simply amazing.

[swatty]

Originally Posted by BravoOne

Zero excuse for any ship to come within a mile of this destroyer without the crew knowing about it beforehand. Simply amazing.

My thoughts exactly. How can no one be paying attention on the bridge ?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by swatty

My thoughts exactly. How can no one be paying attention on the bridge ?

They're paying attention, just not reacting to the information correctly. This is the third collision in a year. Makes you wonder if these crews could get it done if called into action.

[Oceanlover914]

I can't believe in this day and age with technology as it is that something like this is possible. Thoughts and prayers to the families of those lost and injured. Thanks to all who serve to keep our country free.


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[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

They're paying attention, just not reacting to the information correctly. This is the third collision in a year. Makes you wonder if these crews could get it done if called into action.

My question exactly. I admit, the straits of Mallaca are like a freeway at rush hour, LOTS of ships, boats, tankers, but this is the US Navy for Pete's sake, not some guys out on a pleasure cruise. We can't avoid hitting another ship!?!? Something is not right. I was Mini-Boss on an LHA my final deployment, LHA 5 to be specific, USS Pellilu, and I stood bridge watch navigating through that very strait. I do not claim to have much knowledge about transiting sea-ways, i was an aviator after all and not a black-shoe (surface warfare officer) but we managed to get an 800 foot carrier through without hitting anything!!!!! What happens if there's a call to GQ?

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Oceanlover914

I can't believe in this day and age with technology as it is that something like this is possible. Thoughts and prayers to the families of those lost and injured. Thanks to all who serve to keep out country free.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well said Alex, well said on all points.

[cop414]

This is just so hard to comprehend, how can this have occurred once again?
Prayers to the missing and injured.

[SpeakWithMichael]

Pretty much what everyone above said. But 10 missing, it raises questions.

[Old Expat Beast]

External interference possibly? Surely these ships' computer and comms systems are too self-contained to be hacked?

[Abdullah71601]

Originally Posted by Old Expat Beast

External interference possibly? Surely these ships' computer and comms systems are too self-contained to be hacked?

They're designed not to be hacked. Electronic warfare and countermeasures are built into every USN ship, and have been since radar was invented.

If someone can hack a guided missile cruiser, it's time to go sit in your bunker, because that capability could have dire consequences in the special weapons systems.

[MonBK]

Originally Posted by Abdullah71601

They're paying attention, just not reacting to the information correctly. This is the third collision in a year. Makes you wonder if these crews could get it done if called into action.

According to Duck it's the best navy in the world!

[KarlS]

4 in the past year and 6 in last 13 years!!! Something wrong for sure!!

[Ruud Van Driver]

I see this sort of thing happen with monotonous regularity; investigating collisions between ships (amongst other casualties and incidents) is what I do for a living. I'm also a Master Mariner and an ex-ship's captain.

It's easy for the layman to sit back and say 'how can this happen in this day and age'? Abdullah is close when he says that they are paying attention but not processing the information correctly.

The bridges of ships these days are becoming more and more hi-tech. The amount of alarms I hear when listening to the playback of a ship's VDR (voyage data recorder) is enough to make my ears bleed. That doesn't help. Sometimes the watchkeeper doesn't know which way to turn.

Another thing that is becoming increasingly apparent is that senior ships officers (I'm talking merchant here; I can't comment on the military) are getting younger. In other words, they're getting promoted much quicker than when I was at sea. This translates to spending less time in junior ranks so they're not getting the prerequisite supervision for navigating big ships through busy waterways such as the Malacca Strait.

These younger guys are also lacking in the practical application of the collision regulations. Sure, they take action to avoid ships but they're not always aware of they either got it right, got lucky or a combination of both because they don't receive the same sort of peer guidance these days.

Ships crews are getting smaller i.e. there's less of them on board a ship of a given size than there was ten years ago.

Another issue I see is a bridge team comprising multi-nationalities, some of whom are from developing countries where the standard of training isn't as good as it could be. Training is more frequent, more regulated and is supposed to be standardised. But does it actually work?

Some of these guys are spending up to a year on a ship and are getting a bit 'punch drunk'. They know how they should react to a given situation but for reasons unknown, they just don't.

There's not a single answer as to why these things happen. It's always a sequence of events and, in the overwhelming majority of cases, it boils down to human error.

I'm not going to speculate on what happened in the subject incident; to do so on the basis of media information would be foolish. As I said above, I got the call for this one but couldn't proceed because of my knee. Not that it matters because I wouldn't have been able to discuss it anyway but I doubt that the facts will become public knowledge for a while yet.

[kaiserphoenix]

I just don't get it. What if that commercial vessel was a suicide ship wouldn't the USS not have realised it? sounds mind
boggling!!

My thoughts are with the missing sailors and their families.


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[cop414]

Thanks for the information Paul, very interesting.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

My question exactly. I admit, the straits of Mallaca are like a freeway at rush hour, LOTS of ships, boats, tankers, but this is the US Navy for Pete's sake, not some guys out on a pleasure cruise. We can't avoid hitting another ship!?!? Something is not right. I was Mini-Boss on an LHA my final deployment, LHA 5 to be specific, USS Pellilu, and I stood bridge watch navigating through that very strait. I do not claim to have much knowledge about transiting sea-ways, i was an aviator after all and not a black-shoe (surface warfare officer) but we managed to get an 800 foot carrier through without hitting anything!!!!! What happens if there's a call to GQ?

Paul: your comment about standing a bridge watch but not being experienced in transiting such sea ways and that you were an aviator (and not a navigator) scares the crap out of me. As far as merchant ships go, one is required to hold a certificate of competency to stand a navigation bridge watch, so how could that even happen? Are you saying that someone else was actually navigating and that you were 'simply' the highest ranking officer on the bridge, which would make some sense.

[SDRider]

Originally Posted by BravoOne

Zero excuse for any ship to come within a mile of this destroyer without the crew knowing about it beforehand. Simply amazing.

Agreed. This is entirely on the crew of the warship. This could have been avoided.

[RichM]

My thoughts and prayers are with the missing sailors. These things usually don't end well.

[Limestonedan]

Disturbing..

[TheVTCGuy]

Originally Posted by Ruud Van Driver

Paul: your comment about standing a bridge watch but not being experienced in transiting such sea ways and that you were an aviator (and not a navigator) scares the crap out of me. As far as merchant ships go, one is required to hold a certificate of competency to stand a navigation bridge watch, so how could that even happen? Are you saying that someone else was actually navigating and that you were 'simply' the highest ranking officer on the bridge, which would make some sense.

Oh hell yes! I was (as I remember terms) JOOD, Junior Officer Of the Deck. The OOD, Officer of the Deck was in complete command. He made all the decisions and passed the maneuvering orders to me (right 10 degrees rudder steady on course 270) which I passed on verbally to the helmsman. He was certified and experienced, much like I was qualified and certified to operate the control tower on the carrier. Still, if he died of a heart attack and I was suddenly in command the amount of capability and experience dropped substantially. I would have been screaming over he 1MC for the Captain or another qualified Surface Officer to get to the bridge.

[Headshrinker]

Originally Posted by BravoOne

Zero excuse for any ship to come within a mile of this destroyer without the crew knowing about it beforehand. Simply amazing.

Could not have said it better.

[ReMember]

Kind, gentle, and politically-correct Navy.

[Valenciawatchrepair]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

My question exactly. I admit, the straits of Mallaca are like a freeway at rush hour, LOTS of ships, boats, tankers, but this is the US Navy for Pete's sake, not some guys out on a pleasure cruise. We can't avoid hitting another ship!?!? Something is not right. I was Mini-Boss on an LHA my final deployment, LHA 5 to be specific, USS Pellilu, and I stood bridge watch navigating through that very strait. I do not claim to have much knowledge about transiting sea-ways, i was an aviator after all and not a black-shoe (surface warfare officer) but we managed to get an 800 foot carrier through without hitting anything!!!!! What happens if there's a call to GQ?

Good to know. I was on two LHD's. USS Essex (LHD-2) and USS Bonhomme Richard (LHD-6) between 2003-2006. I was TACRON.

And yeah, how in the world this happens is just crazy.

[Ruud Van Driver]

Originally Posted by SDRider

Agreed. This is entirely on the crew of the warship. This could have been avoided.

As I've set out quite clearly above, you can't make this sort of statement without knowing all the facts. To do so is plain speculation.

What I will also say is that in my own experience of these sort of incidents, it is highly unlikely that this "...is entirely on the crew of the warship."

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Oh hell yes! I was (as I remember terms) JOOD, Junior Officer Of the Deck. The OOD, Officer of the Deck was in complete command. He made all the decisions and passed the maneuvering orders to me (right 10 degrees rudder steady on course 270) which I passed on verbally to the helmsman. He was certified and experienced, much like I was qualified and certified to operate the control tower on the carrier. Still, if he died of a heart attack and I was suddenly in command the amount of capability and experience dropped substantially. I would have been screaming over he 1MC for the Captain or another qualified Surface Officer to get to the bridge.

I had a feeling (hoped!) that this was the case. Thanks for clarifying, Paul

[ras47]

Almost all of these tanker and container ships are operated on GPS/autopilot until they are almost at their destination. Many have old systems too without collision avoidance or even proximity warnings. They're *supposed* to have upgraded but enforcement is lax. There is also supposed to be someone on the bridge and paying attention 24/7, but that doesn't always happen either.