* The 'Official' 2017 PP Basel Order Thread * -- What is Everyone Buying???

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Karl,

Thanks for chiming in and never said they were rubbish. They're very nice old-school timepieces for those who enjoy a more sedentary lifestyle. Sure we can all agree they are not durable like many other brands, and perhaps that's where i made the mistake with Patek. A personal error on my part as for the price one may expected more from a luxury brand.

Am sure you'd agree, Patek desires to produce some the finest timepieces in the world and it would be prudent for the factory to back them by an industry leading warranty and reasonable service times, as one expects from a top-tier luxury brand. This is why it brings joy to know Patek is raising their prices, perhaps to help bring back timely customer support and service as they had long ago.

Am still hoping Patek can bring back the good old days to their old-school timepieces so they're around when i get into my upper age in life, yet seems to me right now Patek has an identity crisis... and appears to be getting worse. Apologies if this is not your take on Patek, yet over the decades have stuck with Patek and now it seems they're akin to a boat just moving about without a true course direction. Of course sometimes is it good to just 'throw stuff on the wall and see what sticks', though usually that's not the most efficient way to go about things.

Maybe that's the plan for Patek right now, as they seek a new identity.

Why are writing all this regurgitated tripe in a thread about new PP orders following Basel?

[OpenYourEyes]

I think recently it has become fashionable to criticise Patek.

I see it everywhere, whether it is Hodinkee, forums or elsewhere.

Sometimes it's the size of the movements or finishing that's criticised - and compared to Lange. Other times it's said they "lack innovation and new ideas" (often compared to AP's ceramics, or Breguets patented new tech etc).

For me, Patek is King.. and that title is not under threat.

Can anyone think of one other brand that makes one of the best sports watches (Nautilus, Aquanaut) and the best dress watches (5196 for me) as well as being the (undisputed?) king of minute repeaters and other high-end complications. Talking about demand here so please don't bring up AP with Millenary and Royal Oak... or Rolex Sub and Cellini.

Lange and FPJ only make "dress" watches. None of their watches have stood the test of time yet, so we'll know in a decade or two what the consensus is on the design front. I think, thick, rounded designs can't age too well (Lange's Dato and others).

Patek increases the size of its sports watch (aquanaut) and everyone starts going on about how Patek is dying. But it's ok when FPJ makes 42mm dress watches.

Having said all that, I would prefer if Patek stuck to smaller case sizes and tradition (no silicon, no cut out dials).

Just thought I would put my thoughts out there. Don't mean to cause offence or talk other brands down.

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by OpenYourEyes

I think recently it has become fashionable to criticise Patek.

I see it everywhere, whether it is Hodinkee, forums or elsewhere.

Sometimes it's the size of the movements or finishing that's criticised - and compared to Lange. Other times it's said they "lack innovation and new ideas" (often compared to AP's ceramics, or Breguets patented new tech etc).

For me, Patek is King.. and that title is not under threat.

Can anyone think of one other brand that makes one of the best sports watches (Nautilus, Aquanaut) and the best dress watches (5196 for me) as well as being the (undisputed?) king of minute repeaters and other high-end complications. Talking about demand here so please don't bring up AP with Millenary and Royal Oak... or Rolex Sub and Cellini.

Lange and FPJ only make "dress" watches. None of their watches have stood the test of time yet, so we'll know in a decade or two what the consensus is on the design front. I think, thick, rounded designs can't age too well (Lange's Dato and others).

Patek increases the size of its sports watch (aquanaut) and everyone starts going on about how Patek is dying. But it's ok when FPJ makes 42mm dress watches.

Having said all that, I would prefer if Patek stuck to smaller case sizes and tradition (no silicon, no cut out dials).

Just thought I would put my thoughts out there. Don't mean to cause offence or talk other brands down.

All of your points are correct.
The problem is Patek isn't being measured against FPJ/Lange/AP etc, it's being measured against Patek and against itself it is NOT the company it was...
I've got a real problem now investing in their pieces. TS has

- built some really bling brand-destroying diamond crap.
- overproduced like crazy with knock on effects on quality, value and aftersales service which was, by all accounts, appalling recently.
- presided over a time where, with the exception of the Nautilus, PP's sit in dealer windows for months at at time, to sell at heavy discounts under the table and have pretty poor residuals (when measured against the past)
- has made some questionable design decisions - recycling movements in ever bigger cases giving a stretched look to quite a few pieces.


I GET THAT THE OBJECTIVE FOR THEM IS TO MAKE MONEY, but when collectors are walking away from the brand, TS is going to fail in this objective too.

PP is the king yes. But not compared to itself.
On a practical level, what does that mean? Why the hell would I buy a botched Patek 5372 when I could buy a 3940 which I know was built in smaller quantities, to higher standards, when the company was run by people that cared about customers like me??
For a bigger case?

No thanks.

P.S. the new 5320 is more like it.
The 5170p is nice - it could have been perfect. But TS wanted blingtastic. Not happy.

[Michael M.]

5320G on order.

[ap1]

^^^^ stay on target

[jon_jon]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

All of your points are correct.
The problem is Patek isn't being measured against FPJ/Lange/AP etc, it's being measured against Patek and against itself it is NOT the company it was...
I've got a real problem now investing in their pieces. TS has

- built some really bling brand-destroying diamond crap.
- overproduced like crazy with knock on effects on quality, value and aftersales service which was, by all accounts, appalling recently.
- presided over a time where, with the exception of the Nautilus, PP's sit in dealer windows for months at at time, to sell at heavy discounts under the table and have pretty poor residuals (when measured against the past)
- has made some questionable design decisions - recycling movements in ever bigger cases giving a stretched look to quite a few pieces.


I GET THAT THE OBJECTIVE FOR THEM IS TO MAKE MONEY, but when collectors are walking away from the brand, TS is going to fail in this objective too.

PP is the king yes. But not compared to itself.
On a practical level, what does that mean? Why the hell would I buy a botched Patek 5372 when I could buy a 3940 which I know was built in smaller quantities, to higher standards, when the company was run by people that cared about customers like me??
For a bigger case?

No thanks.

P.S. the new 5320 is more like it.
The 5170p is nice - it could have been perfect. But TS wanted blingtastic. Not happy.

Some very valid points made here. When a company is at the top, it is difficult to outdo one's former self. Look at Microsoft - not the same company it was during the Bill Gates era. Or Apple - not the same as the Steve Jobs era. Both are still very respectable companies, but sometimes the consumer demands innovation and better products every year and companies fail to meet consumer expectations.

Times have changed in the watch industry. Over the past 3 years, the Swiss watch industry has been going through a major slump, not unlike the quartz crisis of the 1980s. Amongst the major Swiss watch manufacturers, Patek, Rolex and a few others are still keeping their head above the water. Other Swiss watch companies are doing horribly and ADs are often in quite a bind with what to do with excess inventory.

There is a market for the diamond and Patek is meeting that demand. Look at some of the Rolex watches with diamond on the bezel and the dial. In North America and western Europe, we often see diamond as "bling". But there are definitely parts of the world where people want the diamond. They may not be Patek's traditional clients from the past 30-40 years, but they are Patek's future clients in the upcoming 30-40 years.

Over the past 10-15 years, Patek has introduced the 27-525, 27-535, 28-520, 31-260 movements. They haven't changed the base 240, 215 and 324 movements, but they are workhorses that keep on going and I don't see a significant reason to spend a lot of R&D resources on their base movements. No one complains that the movement is too small on a 5070. Patek is known for their complications and they spent a lot of R&D producing a watch like the Grandmaster Chime. I know this watch does not get much attention on watch forums, but just imagine how many watchmaker hours were expended in designing and producing the 5175/6300.

I am a bit puzzled how one can compare a 5372 with a 3940. I am not sure if you meant to refer to the 5327, but the 5372P using the Caliber 29-525 is at the 5951P level, held in higher regard than the 5204.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

All of your points are correct.
The problem is Patek isn't being measured against FPJ/Lange/AP etc, it's being measured against Patek and against itself it is NOT the company it was...
I've got a real problem now investing in their pieces. TS has

- built some really bling brand-destroying diamond crap.
- overproduced like crazy with knock on effects on quality, value and aftersales service which was, by all accounts, appalling recently.
- presided over a time where, with the exception of the Nautilus, PP's sit in dealer windows for months at at time, to sell at heavy discounts under the table and have pretty poor residuals (when measured against the past)
- has made some questionable design decisions - recycling movements in ever bigger cases giving a stretched look to quite a few pieces.


I GET THAT THE OBJECTIVE FOR THEM IS TO MAKE MONEY, but when collectors are walking away from the brand, TS is going to fail in this objective too.

PP is the king yes. But not compared to itself.
On a practical level, what does that mean? Why the hell would I buy a botched Patek 5372 when I could buy a 3940 which I know was built in smaller quantities, to higher standards, when the company was run by people that cared about customers like me??
For a bigger case?

No thanks.

P.S. the new 5320 is more like it.
The 5170p is nice - it could have been perfect. But TS wanted blingtastic. Not happy.

Did you have to copy an existing members user name?

Your post seems disingenuous to me.

[RussW]

Originally Posted by Russell996

Why are writing all this regurgitated tripe in a thread about new PP orders following Basel?

Russell, I agree with you.

Steven, I respect your opinion, you clearly don't like Patek any more. But why the constant criticism? Have you nothing better to do, it's getting very tedious.

[enjoythemusic]

Good point Russ. Have been talking with other collectors and quite a few of us have moved on. We talked about the new collection, not much excitement and still many of the same flaws. Many won't ever go public about their feelings, as they stay under the radar. Think the vintage Pateks will do well so there could be a few sweet spots on those.

Patek is not King, ok, maybe yes for mass produced watches. Nowadays there are far more impressive independents doing exquisite work. Have a feeling many would agree Patek is simply not 'superior' as they once were years ago.

Many of us are hoping Patek hears enough valid complaints to make changes. As i have posted before, they need to hire a quality consultant. Many years ago Patek was very well respected, yet it is obvious they have become less-so in today's marketplace. So that begs the question, did Patek get worse or has their competition become superior? Perhaps a bit of both imho.

[Marciano490]

Originally Posted by RussW

Russell, I agree with you.

Steven, I respect your opinion, you clearly don't like Patek any more. But why the constant criticism? Have you nothing better to do, it's getting very tedious.

You'd think he'd enjoy some music?

[scrappy]

Originally Posted by Michael M.

5320G on order.

Were you able to actually order one or did the AD simply promise to call you first when they receive their first copy?

[texex91]

Man I go racing for a few days and this thread goes to the **it hole.

Music dude if you want to bitch about PP, start another thread.

This thread was for people who where ordering SIHH pieces or thinking about it.

#annoying

[archer75]

I had an order at another PP which is due for delivery August and just to experiment how quickly I can get, I added 5168g. The dealer said noted but did not say if he will get one.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Murcielagoboy2]

Originally Posted by RussW

Did you have to copy an existing members user name?

Your post seems disingenuous to me.

No Russ, I AM the existing member Murcielago Boy. Somewhat embarrassingly, i forgot my login details so registered again hence the "2" suffix.
Well remembered though!

And sadly my frustrated post is completely sincere...

[RussW]

Originally Posted by Murcielagoboy2

No Russ, I AM the existing member Murcielago Boy. Somewhat embarrassingly, i forgot my login details so registered again hence the "2" suffix.
Well remembered though!

And sadly my frustrated post is completely sincere...

Ah, that explains it. I thought someone was impersonating you, then together with join date of March and an apparent contentious view, it didn't seem genuine.

In that case though, I am sure your post was sincere.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

You'd think he'd enjoy some music?

Sure, how about some Aerosmith as they're a fun Boston band.

[Calatrava r]

I agree they are the best at their production levels but many independents are making better watches. Having said that, PP most likely will be around 50 years from now and the independents who knows. The longevity of PP adds to its lasting value of its products.

I doubt the current market supports smaller cased watches. PP has to move with the market but they have held as much as they can to maintain allegiance to the smaller end of the current huge. 43mm for a thin manual dress watch is crazy. Hopefully, the trend will move smaller soon.

[enjoythemusic]

Best at what? Long service wait time? Highest pricing for features? Illusion of value? We all know they lack durability and have short warranty compared to other brands.

[Socal to az]

Oh good lord, if you don't like Patek, don't buy one. Plenty of us who like their direction. I want the new jumbo aquanaut. The blue with the larger case size is killer for me! Love it!

[ap1]

^^^^^

[martinr]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

Best at what? Long service wait time? Highest pricing for features? Illusion of value? We all know they lack durability and have short warranty compared to other brands.

Enjoythemusic you sound like a broken record and that's not very enjoyable. You've made it clear Patek in your opinion isn't what it used to be so now we all know the words to your song and maybe you should start your own thread and see where that leads.

[Marciano490]

The 5320 is growing on me. Anyone know when deliveries are expected?

[martinr]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

The 5320 is growing on me. Anyone know when deliveries are expected?

Me too. I'm thinking of cancelling my 5524G Pilot and waiting for this.

[Maltie]

5320G on order too

[Marciano490]

I mean, the 5320g is ugly. Nobody should wear that watch. I hear it's cursed.

[GB-man]

Originally Posted by Marciano490

I mean, the 5320g is ugly. Nobody should wear that watch. I hear it's cursed.

If I had the scratch that would be high on my Patek list. Finally a dial that's well executed from start :

[KarlS]

Going to hold back on everything till I see them in the metal on 3 May. Whilst in market for perpetual not sure where 5320 is better than 5327 aesthetically. White window and dream dial with WG. Doesn't always look correct in 5146G but reserving judgement

[OpenYourEyes]

This is what I have on order. Was a bit worried about the size increase, but looks fantastic on the wrist. Pic off of Hodinkee.

I personally think, this is one of the better Basel showings from Patek.

[Russell996]

Originally Posted by OpenYourEyes

This is what I have on order. Was a bit worried about the size increase, but looks fantastic on the wrist. Pic off of Hodinkee.

I personally think, this is one of the better Basel showings from Patek.

Very nice.

[dom007]

Maybe some day... maybe not...