ROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEXROLEX

padi56 · 4 January 2010, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colnago

If you already have a recent Rolex then you have a movement that beats at 28800, it has a very distinctive almost "chiming" tick to it, the speed is critical as well....very few fake movements sound the same or beat as fast.....if you know what they look like and sound like from the outside then you have a good starting point......but unless you open the case you will never know absolutely......

Many Many movements today have 28800BPH,like those from ETA but the only sure way is get the back off.

Juggernaut · 4 January 2010, 03:45 AM

Fortunately many fakes have that dumb clear back which makes it very easy to see the fake movement! Dah!!!

ParisDakarBmw · 4 January 2010, 02:03 PM

My head is smoking. TMI for my little noggin....

Tools · 4 January 2010, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juggernaut

Fortunately many fakes have that dumb clear back which makes it very easy to see the fake movement! Dah!!!

Hey..... they're not all fakes....

Tijssan · 5 September 2010, 01:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeI

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

Old post, new question. Does anyone know if the above applies to a 16520 with a 4030 movement?

Michael M. · 5 September 2010, 02:04 AM

If you shake it and there's a whole lot of rotor noise coming from the movement, then it either fake, or it has some problems

Only use this technique on models manufactured after 1980, because some older GENUINE rolexes do have rotor noise.

Tijssan · 5 September 2010, 02:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael M.

If you shake it and there's a whole lot of rotor noise coming from the movement, then it either fake, or it has some problems.

How do you define a lot...?

weedbreeder · 9 September 2010, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael M.

If you shake it and there's a whole lot of rotor noise coming from the movement, then it either fake, or it has some problems

Only use this technique on models manufactured after 1980, because some older GENUINE rolexes do have rotor noise.

I agree with this one. My 1973 DJ has rotor noise, my dad's 1990ish DJ is silent.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeI View Post
A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

This I disagree. My DJ does the opposite. It retards time with clockwise turn of the crown. And RSC had mine verified original. I guess it's because mine's a vintage... http://www.rolexforums.com/images/smilies/dummy.gif

wow! post number 1! Hi All!!!!

Tools · 10 September 2010, 06:53 AM

Both the 3000 movement and the 3035 movement operate opposite the new models... But, it's generally the newer models that are being pushed to the masses as genuine...

BarkMaster · 10 September 2010, 08:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

Both the 3000 movement and the 3035 movement operate opposite the new models... But, it's generally the newer models that are being pushed to the masses as genuine...

You'd think that they'd push bark since it's soooo popular.

Seriously - Good info. Thanks!

Tijssan · 13 September 2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tools

Both the 3000 movement and the 3035 movement operate opposite the new models... But, it's generally the newer models that are being pushed to the masses as genuine...

As does the 4030 movement in the 16520. It also has a noisy rotor (which I experienced first hand and was confirmed as a 'trade' for the El Primero movement on the forum)

Z-Dweller · 21 September 2010, 01:37 PM

Here are some of the ways I can spot a fake before opening the case. Some were mentioned earlier. This pertains to the modern Rolex models.

Noisy autowinding rotor - Fake.

Crown not centered with crown guards - sits low (posteriorly) - Fake.

Glass has blue/green tinge when viewed on edge - Fake (not sapphire).

Date starts to change at 11:00 - Fake.

Bezel clicks should be two per minute marker (120 per full rotation) for a Sub (GMT IIc has one click per hour marker). If not - Fake.

Cyclops magnification is small (1.5x) - Fake (should be about 2.5x).

Listen to the "ticks" - about 2 per second? - Fake (Modern Rolex has 8 beats per second).

Large pearl on bezel - Fake.

Maxi dial and hands on pre-ceramic Sub - likely Fake.

Shape of oyster case - the back of the case is often flatter on a Fake.

Look at the quality of the stamping of the Coronet on the bracelet. If it looks illdefined, i.e. the fingers of the crown meld together, likely a Fake.

Triple-lock crown seems finicky to operate - Fake.

The first Rolex I bought was a Fake Rolex I purchased in China as a souvenir. Now I know what to look for. I really appreciate my real Rolex's now.

But beware, the counterfeiters are learning and getting better all the time.

The Collector · 22 September 2010, 03:16 AM

You can also see if it has the "hacking" feature. Very few fakes I know of have it. When you pull the stem out to set the time, the second hand will stop if it is not an old Rolex.

jamesdatejust · 1 October 2010, 03:41 PM

Wow nice topic. Does anybody know how the hands of a lady datejust (1984) 2135 move when the crown is turned clockwise?

DoubleRedRolex · 21 October 2010, 06:24 PM

All these things you guys mention about date flipping and saphire crystals and bezel clicks is fine if you are looking at a $35 fake Rolex that you buy off the street in New York. NONE of these apply to the high end replicas coming out of some of these chinese factories in the last year or so that cost upwards of $500+. Even the movements are getting copied now so watch out. And not just stickers on the rotors anymore but fully engraved copies of the 3135 with red wheels and exact rotor. Ive seen them in china so i know they exist. Ive even seen exact copies of Kawasaki motorcycle dirtbikes right down to the last nut and bolt for 1/5 of the cost of the real one. I guess when you dont have to pay for R&D and your workers make $6 a day, you can make items a lot cheaper than the orig manufacturer.

But yes i do agree that a Rolex movement has more of a metalic sounding ping than an ETA movement does. When in doubt, take it to a Rolex dealer to have it checked.

buke45 · 22 October 2010, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoubleRedRolex

All these things you guys mention about date flipping and saphire crystals and bezel clicks is fine if you are looking at a $35 fake Rolex that you buy off the street in New York. NONE of these apply to the high end replicas coming out of some of these chinese factories in the last year or so that cost upwards of $500+. Even the movements are getting copied now so watch out. And not just stickers on the rotors anymore but fully engraved copies of the 3135 with red wheels and exact rotor. Ive seen them in china so i know they exist. Ive even seen exact copies of Kawasaki motorcycle dirtbikes right down to the last nut and bolt for 1/5 of the cost of the real one. I guess when you dont have to pay for R&D and your workers make $6 a day, you can make items a lot cheaper than the orig manufacturer.

But yes I do agree that a Rolex movement has more of a metalic sounding ping than an ETA movement does. When in doubt, take it to a Rolex dealer to have it checked.

I agree but I have spotted the best fakes that cost thousands by doing the date switch.

linoleum123 · 26 October 2010, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Collector

You can also see if it has the "hacking" feature. Very few fakes I know of have it. When you pull the stem out to set the time, the second hand will stop if it is not an old Rolex.

I just bought my very first rolex, a 1981 Oyster Perpetual no date Ref 1002. The second hand dont stop when setting time, how am I supposed to set the exact time?

Also the sweeping second doesnt seem perfectly smooths, looks like its moving like 3 times/second. Is this normal?

level · 26 October 2010, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linoleum123

I just bought my very first rolex, a 1981 Oyster Perpetual no date Ref 1002. The second hand dont stop when setting time, how am I supposed to set the exact time?

Also the sweeping second doesnt seem perfectly smooths, looks like its moving like 3 times/second. Is this normal?

The reference 1002 used calibers 1560/1570. These were not fast beat calibers like those used currently, they beat at 18000 bph, and the second hand would appear a bit more choppy than a modern Rolex. But they were excellent calibers and should give you a lot of years of service. I don't know if they had a hack feature, I'm sure someone will come along shortly with that information.

Just double checked and the cal. 1570 is 19800 bph.

linoleum123 · 26 October 2010, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by level

The reference 1002 used calibers 1560/1570. These were not fast beat calibers like those used currently, they beat at 18000 bph, and the second hand would appear a bit more choppy than a modern Rolex. But they were excellent calibers and should give you a lot of years of service. I don't know if they had a hack feature, I'm sure someone will come along shortly with that information.

Just double checked and the cal. 1570 is 19800 bph.

Thanks for the info! :) I hope someone else can answer how to set to clock correctly within seconds.

I have another question about watches this old (1981), I just tried the watch in darkness and I could hardly see the time, can the luminous paint "get old"? It has a very fade glow.

Route 66 · 26 October 2010, 05:48 AM

Do fakes ever have a laser etched crown on the crystal?

level · 26 October 2010, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by linoleum123

I have another question about watches this old (1981), I just tried the watch in darkness and I could hardly see the time, can the luminous paint "get old"? It has a very fade glow.

Your watch uses tritium which will decrease in brightness over time. At this point I would think most of the luminescence is gone.

linoleum123 · 27 October 2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by level

The reference 1002 used calibers 1560/1570. These were not fast beat calibers like those used currently, they beat at 18000 bph

Just double checked and the cal. 1570 is 19800 bph.

I just tried to count the bpm on my watch and I counted 324 which equals 19440 bph. :)

stephengreen · 28 October 2010, 03:27 AM

Can anyone confirm which way a 5513 sub reacts to a clockwise turn of the crown?

InVision · 28 October 2010, 03:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeI

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

Confused? I guess my wife's ladies YM sold by an AD i a fake ....

d-rock · 7 November 2014, 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by onkyo

100% correct... eta always sit lower (more posterior) than a Rolex movement. Take a look at some fakes and it becomes very clear.

.... BUT I still recommend examining the movement with your own eyes once you become familiar with Rolex movements.

Never say "always".
The "cloning" factories have adressed the lower crown position that would indicate the use of an eta or sw movement several years ago.
And cases that will employ both the eta/sellita and genuine 31XX movements have been circulating in the markets for at least 5 years that I know of.
As has been mentioned ( and yes I realize this is a very old thread and thought I might "update" it a bit) the only way to be SURE is to crack it open and have a look. And even then you need to "really" know what you're looking at as the cloning of the 28,800 vph, 31XX movement has come a "long" way.

Finewatch · 7 November 2014, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Route 66

Do fakes ever have a laser etched crown on the crystal?

Yes seen many with it.

forgedblades · 6 January 2015, 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finewatch

Yes seen many with it.

But with most fakes I have seen the crown is visible to the naked eye without any magnification. If I am correct you need a loop or something of the like to see it on a real Rolex.

rmfnla · 6 January 2015, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by forgedblades

But with most fakes I have seen the crown is visible to the naked eye without any magnification. If I am correct you need a loop or something of the like to see it on a real Rolex.

It's probably not really done with a laser on the fakes...

seattleal · 7 January 2015, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeI

A good way to tell that i have noticed, is that when you set the hands on the watch, a genuine watch will only rotate the hands when you turn clockwise which is the way all modern rolexes do. A fake will rotate counterclockwise.

Not so with older movements - see this post:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alpino

.

651H : crown CW -> hands CW (Cellini)
727 : crown CW -> hands CW (Daytona 6263/5)
750 : crown CW -> hands CW (Cellini)
1225 : crown CW -> hands CCW (OD 6694)
1240 : crown CW -> hands CCW
1400 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Cellini)
1520 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Sub 5513)
1530 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Sub 5513)
1570 : crown CW -> hands CCW (OP)
1575 : crown CW -> hands CCW (DJ,Sub 1680,GMT)
1560 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Sub 5512,Explo 1016)
1565 : crown CW -> hands CCW (DJ)
1580 : crown CW -> hands CCW (MG 1019)
1601 : crown CW -> hands CW (Cellini)
1800 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Rolex lady)
2030 : crown CW -> hands CCW (OP 26/29/31mm)
2035 : crown CW -> hands CCW (DJ 26/29/31mm)
2130 : crown CW -> hands CCW (OP 26/29/31mm)
2135 : crown CW -> hands CCW (DJ 26/29/31mm)
2230 : crown CW -> hands CCW (OP 26/29/31mm)
2231 : crown CW -> hands CCW (OP 26/29/31mm)
2235 : crown CW -> hands CCW (DJ 26/29/31mm,YM 29/35 mm)
3000 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Sub 14060,Explo1,AK)
3035 : crown CW -> hands CCW (DJ)
3055 : crown CW -> hands CCW (daydate)
3075 : crown CW -> hands CCW (GMT)
3085 : crown CW -> hands CW - hour hand alone CCW (GMT2)
3130 : crown CW -> hands CW (Sub 14060M,Explo1)
3131 : crown CW -> hands CW (Milgauss)
3132 : crown CW -> hands CW (Explo1 39mm)
3135 : crown CW -> hands CW (DJ,TOG,Sub Date,SDDS)
3136 : crown CW -> hands CW (DJ 2)
3155 : crown CW -> hands CW (DD)
3156 : crown CW -> hands CW (DD 2)
3175 : crown CW -> hands CW (GMT)
3185 : crown CW -> hands CW - hour hand alone CW (GMT2,Explo2)
3186 : crown CW -> hands CW - hour hand alone CW (GMT2,Explo2)
3187 : crown CW -> hands CW - hour hand alone CW (Explo2 42mm)
4030 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Daytona 16520)
4130 : crown CW -> hands CW (Daytona)
4160 : crown CW -> hands CW (YM II)
5035 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Oysterquartz DJ)
5055 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Oysterquartz DD)
6220 : crown CW -> hands CW (Cellini Quartz)
6621 : crown CW -> hands CW (Cellini Quartz)
7040 : crown CW -> hands CW (Prince)
9001 : crown CW -> hands CCW (Sky Dweller)

10 September 2010, 06:53 AM	#39
Tools TRF Moderator & 2024 DATE-JUST41 Patron Join Date: May 2007 Real Name: Larry Location: Mojave Desert Watch: GMT's Posts: 43,044	Both the 3000 movement and the 3035 movement operate opposite the new models... But, it's generally the newer models that are being pushed to the masses as genuine... __________________ (Chill ... It's just a watch Forum.....) NAWCC Member

4 January 2010, 03:45 AM	#32
Juggernaut "TRF" Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 901	Fortunately many fakes have that dumb clear back which makes it very easy to see the fake movement! Dah!!!

4 January 2010, 02:03 PM	#33
ParisDakarBmw Banned Join Date: Dec 2009 Real Name: Paul Location: New Haven, CT Watch: 116610 Sub-C Posts: 6,552	My head is smoking. TMI for my little noggin....

5 September 2010, 02:04 AM	#36
Michael M. Banned Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Newport Beach, CA Posts: 8,391	If you shake it and there's a whole lot of rotor noise coming from the movement, then it either fake, or it has some problems Only use this technique on models manufactured after 1980, because some older GENUINE rolexes do have rotor noise.

21 September 2010, 01:37 PM	#42
Z-Dweller "TRF" Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Real Name: Bill Location: In my man-cave Watch: All my children. Posts: 359	Here are some of the ways I can spot a fake before opening the case. Some were mentioned earlier. This pertains to the modern Rolex models. Noisy autowinding rotor - Fake. Crown not centered with crown guards - sits low (posteriorly) - Fake. Glass has blue/green tinge when viewed on edge - Fake (not sapphire). Date starts to change at 11:00 - Fake. Bezel clicks should be two per minute marker (120 per full rotation) for a Sub (GMT IIc has one click per hour marker). If not - Fake. Cyclops magnification is small (1.5x) - Fake (should be about 2.5x). Listen to the "ticks" - about 2 per second? - Fake (Modern Rolex has 8 beats per second). Large pearl on bezel - Fake. Maxi dial and hands on pre-ceramic Sub - likely Fake. Shape of oyster case - the back of the case is often flatter on a Fake. Look at the quality of the stamping of the Coronet on the bracelet. If it looks illdefined, i.e. the fingers of the crown meld together, likely a Fake. Triple-lock crown seems finicky to operate - Fake. The first Rolex I bought was a Fake Rolex I purchased in China as a souvenir. Now I know what to look for. I really appreciate my real Rolex's now. But beware, the counterfeiters are learning and getting better all the time.

22 September 2010, 03:16 AM	#43
The Collector Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Abilene, Texas Posts: 20	You can also see if it has the "hacking" feature. Very few fakes I know of have it. When you pull the stem out to set the time, the second hand will stop if it is not an old Rolex.

1 October 2010, 03:41 PM	#44
jamesdatejust Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: USA Posts: 29	Wow nice topic. Does anybody know how the hands of a lady datejust (1984) 2135 move when the crown is turned clockwise?

21 October 2010, 06:24 PM	#45
DoubleRedRolex "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Real Name: Lonnie Location: Canada Watch: Rolex 1680-8 Posts: 80	All these things you guys mention about date flipping and saphire crystals and bezel clicks is fine if you are looking at a $35 fake Rolex that you buy off the street in New York. NONE of these apply to the high end replicas coming out of some of these chinese factories in the last year or so that cost upwards of $500+. Even the movements are getting copied now so watch out. And not just stickers on the rotors anymore but fully engraved copies of the 3135 with red wheels and exact rotor. Ive seen them in china so i know they exist. Ive even seen exact copies of Kawasaki motorcycle dirtbikes right down to the last nut and bolt for 1/5 of the cost of the real one. I guess when you dont have to pay for R&D and your workers make $6 a day, you can make items a lot cheaper than the orig manufacturer. But yes i do agree that a Rolex movement has more of a metalic sounding ping than an ETA movement does. When in doubt, take it to a Rolex dealer to have it checked.

26 October 2010, 05:48 AM	#50
Route 66 "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Real Name: Steve Location: Burbank, CA Watch: 214270 Mark II Posts: 4,121	Do fakes ever have a laser etched crown on the crystal?

28 October 2010, 03:27 AM	#53
stephengreen Banned Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: england Watch: "d" sub date Posts: 84	Can anyone confirm which way a 5513 sub reacts to a clockwise turn of the crown?

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