Tarrytown Jewelers - Price change after initial offer

[Crazy Canuck]

Hey all, had an experience that doesn't sit right with me.

June 20, 2017 I had inquired about a GMT Master II w/3186 that Tarrytown Jewelers had on their website. I wanted a specific model with complete package with boxes and papers. Josh said they had another with boxes and papers and after a sending photos a second time that were not blurry June 26 he offered a price with payment by wire transfer and shipping within continental US. I'm in Canada. I preferred to pay by Amex as it is more convenient but replied on June 27 that I would consider how to arrage the logistics of shipment.
June 30 I asked if they could send it directly to me and the response was that they wanted a wire transfer given that I am located outside of the US. I replied on June 30 that I would inquire with a friend in NH if they would accept the package on my behalf.
July 1 was Canada Day (150th!) and then 4th of July.
On July 4 I wished them Happy Independence Day and I mentioned I would preferred Amex as I had recourse but my friend in NH had no problem accepting the package on my behalf. I did not receive a response.
On July 10 I contacted Tarrytown again to confirm a detail and to inquire whether or not they still had the watch. I did not receive a response.
On July 11 I contacted them again for a response from my email the day before and I received the response, "Chris, was overseas. Unfortunately you should have grabbed it when we initially discussed it. I was overruled by my boss on the price of the watch, and he almost had it sold at $xx last week, so now he is stuck on the number of $xx." This was a 33% increase from the price offered to me the week before!
July 12 I received the response, "Chris,
Discussed the matter with owner Steve.
If you see from the thread below, on July 4th you wrote that with Amex you had recourse, whereas with a wire you had none, which is an understandable sentiment and certainly your prerogative and within your rights as the buyer to request that method of payment. We on the other hand as the seller, can decide what method of payment is acceptable and Amex was not a choice under the circumstances.
I was out of the country and I did forward your email to Steve on the 4th. His analysis of your email and the terms to conduct business, was that you were insistent on Amex, and a wire (which was our only acceptable method of payment) was not on the table as far as you were concerned. Given the options, the deal proposed was no longer applicable or relevant, and in effect was finished.
After further analysis of this model and its demand on the market, Steve concluded that the right price was in fact $xx, and that was what he wanted for the watch.
Late yesterday you emailed for confirmation of the movement caliber, almost 6 Days from your last correspondence.
Steve did agree however to sell the watch for $xx delivered and insured to NH for a wire.
Have a Good Evening
Josh"
July 11 I replied, "If you had sold the watch in the meantime that would have been fine, but I am agreeing to the exact terms and price you offered to me. This is what is irking me. ... I hope you guys will live up to your reputation and stand by your word/email and do what is honorable. I'd like to buy the watch but not if it leaves me with a sour taste.""
July 12, Steve Dubinsky, the owner of Tarrytown Jewelers replied, "You had been communicating with Josh regarding our GMT Master. Had you accepted the wire terms on the day of the date of the quote we would have honored it. Since then, it has come to my attention that these are trading in the xx/xx range. As such, as a conciliatory gesture I would offer the watch to you for xx. (Now only a 25% increase!)"
I am disappointed that after doing some legwork to be able to accep their exact terms and conditions of payment and shipping Tarrytown Jewelers will not stand by their word and go through with the transaction. Too bad. I liked the watch.

[cda555]

If accurate, that is poor customer service on their part. Best thing to do is move on and continue the hunt for your GMT II. Good Luck.

[imperio]

Unfortunately I think this came down to a miscommunication and you're not out of pocket in any way so no harm done. Your experience is only negative as you couldn't get the watch you want at a price you wanted... don't see how this is the dealer's fault. It looks like they were offering it on the cheap and you couldn't close the deal before they realized it, that's all.


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[brandrea]

Seems strange that in the end, all they were hung up on was the method payment.

[Tony64]

I think I'm going to have to go with Tarrytown on this one. It's an unfortunate situation, but I'm not seeing that they've done anything wrong.

[Crazy Canuck]

They wanted 4 grand more for the watch after I spent some time over the Canada Day/4th of July weekend arranging the logistics on my end to suit their terms of payment and shipping and wouldn't honor the price they had quoted. THis is what I consider wrong. We don't do that in my business. We honor what is quoted within a reasonable time frame. As of a couple of days ago they still had the watch.

I can post screen shots of the correspondence.

[Etschell]

Seriously? Deceptive. $4k more for a GMT master than the initial quote. wow.

[martinr]

They told you what the terms were, you didn't accept them, the amount of increase is irrelevant, it's their watch to sell as they see fit, you had an opportunity and passed on it. Time is of the essence.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by Crazy Canuck

They wanted 4 grand more for the watch after I spent some time over the Canada Day/4th of July weekend arranging the logistics on my end to suit their terms of payment and shipping and wouldn't honor the price they had quoted. THis is what I consider wrong. We don't do that in my business. We honor what is quoted within a reasonable time frame. As of a couple of days ago they still had the watch.

I can post screen shots of the correspondence.

What was the initial price you were quoted before the 4K increase? What is the current market price?

Surely you don't expect the salesperson to put his vacation plans on hold just because you wanted to buy a watch from them. If you had placed a deposit while working out the shipping details then yes they probably should have stuck to the terms of the initial agreed upon deal. As far as I can tell they haven't done anything unreasonable. It was you who delayed closing/confirming and securing the deal and as a result they realized their pricing error.


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[Etschell]

Originally Posted by martinr

They told you what the terms were, you didn't accept them, the amount of increase is irrelevant, it's their watch to sell as they see fit, you had an opportunity and passed on it. Time is of the essence.

it was a mispriced item. that happens. still shady practice. if the salesman doesnt have authority to sell the watch at the price he states why is the owner letting him conduct business on his behalf. ridiculous and amateurish.

[martinr]

Originally Posted by Etschell

it was a mispriced item. that happens. still shady practice. if the salesman doesnt have authority to sell the watch at the price he states why is the owner letting him conduct business on his behalf. ridiculous and amateurish.

All businesses make mistakes. If the OP moved quickly he'd have the watch. He took his time and asked for alternative terms. You snooze you lose. Nothing shady at all.

[Crazy Canuck]

12K to 16K

Then "conciliatory" offer of $15K.

I said no on principle. It would piss me off every time I looked at the watch.

They are free to do what they want, I agree.

I may be in the minority for thinking it's wrong to up the price a few days after a quote was received as I agree to their payment and shipping terms which required some logistical gymnastics for me to accommodate over a major holiday but I somehow doubt it. In 25 years of business my company hasn't done it nor will we.

[martinr]

You say you agreed to their shipping terms but you really didn't, you considered them which is not agreeing. It seems like you're trying to make your difficulties their problem. They made a price mistake and you had the opportunity to take advantage and didn't, they caught the mistake and fixed it.

[Tony64]

Originally Posted by martinr

You say you agreed to their shipping terms but you really didn't, you considered them which is not agreeing. It seems like you're trying to make your difficulties their problem. They made a price mistake and you had the opportunity to take advantage and didn't, they caught the mistake and fixed it.

That sounds like a pretty good summary.

It's analogous to an item on sale for a limited time, and then expecting to purchase for that price after the sale ends. Not exactly the same I realize, because they never intended to have it on sale. In life you have to recognize and seize good opportunities as they come. If the watch is fairly priced now then it will sell. If not, then you'll have no difficulty finding another one priced more friendly. It's not personal, its business.

[breitlings]

it's not ideal but I don't think you agreed to their terms. They asked for payment in a method that would net them 3% more and is less risky for them.

[abs82]

I don't think OP is claiming they did anything illegal in changing the price but it is certainly not great customer service. If you walked into any store offering an item for one price I'm sure you'd feel equally upset if when you went back to purchase it they had increased the price by more than a third! It's not like the watch was "on sale" and then went back to its regular price. OP was trying to work a deal, as many do, and when he was finally ready to pull the trigger they changed their mind. The seller was within their rights to do what they did, of course, but I think it is indicative of how they choose to conduct their business. I, for one, would not choose to buy from them but others are free to do business with whomever they choose.

[uansari1]

Unless you actually accepted their offer, i.e. said I accept your offer, we have a deal, consider it sold, etc., Tarrytown can pull out of further discussion and sell elsewhere from a practical perspective. If you did accept the offer, then they are bound to honor the agreement.

You're right though...kind of shitty that they'd raise the price after you expressed interest. I wouldn't do business with that type of establishment. Do yourself a favor and reach out to the Trusted Sellers here. If someone has it, pay the premium (if there is one). If not, I'm sure one of them will be able to find you what you want soon.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by uansari1

Unless you actually accepted their offer, i.e. said I accept your offer, we have a deal, consider it sold, etc., Tarrytown can pull out of further discussion and sell elsewhere from a practical perspective. If you did accept the offer, then they are bound to honor the agreement.

You're right though...kind of shitty that they'd raise the price after you expressed interest. I wouldn't do business with that type of establishment. Do yourself a favor and reach out to the Trusted Sellers here. If someone has it, pay the premium (if there is one). If not, I'm sure one of them will be able to find you what you want soon.

Shouldn't the obligation only takes place if the buyer puts a deposit? Otherwise anyone could go into their store and "accept" all watches they have on sale at their asking price, say "I'll come back in a month to purchase them", and the shop won't be able to sell anything to anyone else who walks in for the next month while waiting for the potential buyer to come back next month. No sir that does not make sense.




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[breitlings]

Originally Posted by imperio

Shouldn't the obligation only takes place if the buyer puts a deposit? Otherwise anyone could go into their store and "accept" all watches they have on sale at their asking price, say "I'll come back in a month to purchase them", and the shop won't be able to sell anything to anyone else who walks in for the next month while waiting for the potential buyer to come back next month. No sir that does not make sense.




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I'm just an entrepreneur but if my business classes are right then: Under US contract law the offer once accepted as is, is enforce. So if he said $500 deposit as part of the deal then you would be right. If it isn't part of the deal you are wrong as if a buyer and seller agree to the deal then it is a contract.

If the seller or buyer has lost money because the buyer or seller hasn't performed accordingly they are entitled to recompense. I believe it is called equitable estoppel.

If you counter as the OP did the original offer is invalid unless offered again.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by breitlings

I'm just an entrepreneur but if my business classes are right then: Under US contract law the offer once accepted as is, is enforce. So if he said $500 deposit as part of the deal then you would be right. If it isn't part of the deal you are wrong as if a buyer and seller agree to the deal then it is a contract.

If the seller or buyer has lost money because the buyer or seller hasn't performed accordingly they are entitled to recompense. I believe it is called equitable estoppel.

If you counter as the OP did the original offer is invalid unless offered again.

Does the concept of consideration not apply to US contract law (honest question; I don't know) like it does in most commonwealth countries? If it doesn't then I stand corrected.


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[uansari1]

Originally Posted by imperio

Does the concept of consideration not apply to US contract law (honest question; I don't know) like it does in most commonwealth countries? If it doesn't then I stand corrected.


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Of course...consideration is one of the four elements of a valid contract. However, in the law, a promise to pay for the good(s) counts as consideration in circumstances where immediate payment is impracticable. Like, for example, buying a watch from someone in a different state.

The US is a common law jurisdiction...I read many old British cases in law school.

[imperio]

Originally Posted by uansari1

Of course...consideration is one of the four elements of a valid contract. However, in the law, a promise to pay for the good(s) counts as consideration in circumstances where immediate payment is impracticable. Like, for example, buying a watch from someone in a different state.

The US is a common law jurisdiction...I read many old British cases in law school.

What about if immediate payment was possible (for example, wire transfer), just not the buyer's preferred mode of payment (for example, Amex)?


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[Dazlewis]

Originally Posted by uansari1

Of course...consideration is one of the four elements of a valid contract. However, in the law, a promise to pay for the good(s) counts as consideration in circumstances where immediate payment is impracticable. Like, for example, buying a watch from someone in a different state.

The US is a common law jurisdiction...I read many old British cases in law school.

From a British perspective, the more fundamental point concerns what constitutes offer and acceptance - in a consumer purchase scenario, advertising a product for sale is not typically considered making an offer to sell the product that a purchaser can accept to form contract, rather advertising something for sale is simply an invite for consumers to make offers to buy, which the seller can then decide whether to accept. I.e. the steps are:

1) Prospective seller putting up a product for sale is an invite for people to make an offer to buy the product - the advertised price is guidance on the sort of number the seller is looking for. This is called an "invitation to treat" (where "treat" refers to entering a negotiation - as in a treaty - rather than giving someone candy!)

2) Prospective purchaser makes offer to purchase with any desired conditions - e.g. form of payment.

3) Prospective seller decides whether or not to accept offer to buy, and if so, contract is struck.

So, in this case, under the UK approach, the OP would have no recourse under contract law because the seller never accepted their offer to buy. No idea if the same applies for the US or whether it depends on State.

[Starwalker]

Originally Posted by Etschell

it was a mispriced item. that happens. still shady practice. if the salesman doesnt have authority to sell the watch at the price he states why is the owner letting him conduct business on his behalf. ridiculous and amateurish.

x2!

[uansari1]

Originally Posted by imperio

What about if immediate payment was possible (for example, wire transfer), just not the buyer's preferred mode of payment (for example, Amex)?


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I'm not going to get into hypotheticals. In fact, my first comment on this matter was an "only if" statement.

If you're asking out of genuine curiosity, immediate payment would be required if stated as such by Seller during the offer.

[uansari1]

Originally Posted by Dazlewis

From a British perspective, the more fundamental point concerns what constitutes offer and acceptance - in a consumer purchase scenario, advertising a product for sale is not typically considered making an offer to sell the product that a purchaser can accept to form contract, rather advertising something for sale is simply an invite for consumers to make offers to buy, which the seller can then decide whether to accept.

This holds true in US law as well, unsurprisingly. Bear in mind, our law is based on British law. Advertising is considered an invitation to deal.