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Old 11 May 2021, 11:34 PM   #1
ChrisCGG
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Explorer 5500 precision - expert opinion?

Hi there, advice needed on an explorer 5500 precision dial.   Yes I know, another one....! I know a lot of people consider the 5500 explorer radioactive.  So many fakes etc

Me: Long time lurker, watch enthusiast, first time poster - apologies for the request for help in the first post - bad form I know

Dial pictures for your expert dissection.

Positives:

Seller seems genuinely legit,  private seller, is happy to answer questions and is genuine

Watch is a 5500 case, with a calibre 1520 movement. Case back and serial number date the watch as 1968.

Things to consider:

Caseback is stamped 1002 '68. This is obviously appropriate for the 5500 model of this age, but seems quite late in the explorer production run (?) Most sources suggest it was only up to around 1967?   Also I  have read that genuine explorer dials tend to have a 5500 stamped case back?  Although I don't know how accurate this is?

Now the dial!  I've trawled the forums and too my eye there are a lot of positive signs - without listing them all, what if anything am I not seeing - if this is a reproduction dial tell me why?

To be clear I don't suspect the seller of modifying it

It's obviously an Air-king with a nice condition case and genuine movement but to be worth the money the dial has to be correct! 
Attached Images
File Type: jpg bexp55001jpg.jpg (123.5 KB, 252 views)
File Type: jpg cexp55003jpg.jpg (107.6 KB, 254 views)
File Type: jpg cexp55002jpg.jpg (154.0 KB, 252 views)
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Old 12 May 2021, 05:25 AM   #2
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Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. I'll move it if required. ��
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Old 12 May 2021, 06:11 AM   #3
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Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. I'll move it if required. ��
You are in the right place, the vintage forum. I cannot answer any of your questions but the experts should be along shortly. Welcome to the forum!
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Old 12 May 2021, 06:34 AM   #4
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You are in the right place, the vintage forum. I cannot answer any of your questions but the experts should be along shortly. Welcome to the forum!
Thanks ��
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Old 12 May 2021, 06:46 AM   #5
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I do not like this dial.
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Old 12 May 2021, 07:02 AM   #6
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Old 12 May 2021, 07:04 AM   #7
ChrisCGG
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I do not like this dial.
Care to elaborate....u don't think it is original?
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:00 AM   #8
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I am confident it is not.
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:14 AM   #9
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Thanks, I've tried to do my research and I thought it had a lot of features that matched the generally accepted "standard" of genuine 5500 precision explorer dials. Fonts, gap in precision, shape of the hour markers, rounding of the tips on the 3 and the 9, position of the Swiss T < etc....
I'm far from an expert but I have tried to absorb as much info as is available.
Could you elaborate and exactly why it looks fake?
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Old 12 May 2021, 07:29 PM   #10
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One might reflect on what you have been using as exemplars.

I'd rather not say why I make my judgement of the dial, as with each "tell" revealed it simply helps the baddies improve their next generation.
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Old 12 May 2021, 07:39 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ChrisCGG View Post
Thanks, I've tried to do my research and I thought it had a lot of features that matched the generally accepted "standard" of genuine 5500 precision explorer dials. Fonts, gap in precision, shape of the hour markers, rounding of the tips on the 3 and the 9, position of the Swiss T < etc....
I'm far from an expert but I have tried to absorb as much info as is available.
Could you elaborate and exactly why it looks fake?
Lucky you to get an answer from a true expert as Haywood. That is why this forum is so great.
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Old 12 May 2021, 07:50 PM   #12
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Chris i guess your on your own i see it so many times where people call out watches as fake without giving any justification for their reasoning. At the end of the day its your call trust what you have found as no one here appears to want back up their views. I have asked questions and people have been forthcoming and based on their knowledge i have not bought watches its your money if your not sure dont do it. All the best in your quest.
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Old 12 May 2021, 07:57 PM   #13
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Chris i guess your on your own i see it so many times where people call out watches as fake without giving any justification for their reasoning. At the end of the day its your call trust what you have found as no one here appears to want back up their views. I have asked questions and people have been forthcoming and based on their knowledge i have not bought watches its your money if your not sure dont do it. All the best in your quest.
So what would you have people do? Should I have not responded, or should I have responded but given the details away, sharing with a thousand crooked idiots a guide on how to improve the next generation of fakes?

It may be pragmatic to reflect on the author of a comment questioning a piece. Are they an unknown, or someone you consider might have extensive experience and some authority? An idiot with no vowels in his name interjecting "fake" on Facebook when he sees an Oysterquartz is not the same.

Please note from my signature that I own three 5500 Explorers among a few other pieces.
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:11 PM   #14
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To quote an american phrase 'put up or shut up' best to say nothing. I thought forums like this were there to help the unanitiated make informed decisions. I saw a post where some people wanted fakes to go through at auctions to protect prices, and maintain confidence in what was being offered. If your aim is to stop fakers making better copies by not answering good luck with that!!
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:27 PM   #15
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Fakers have been stymied for decades because details have been kept from them by people who know better.

Is the OP in a better place because I responded?
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:30 PM   #16
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No i dont think so you own that particular watch that gives you an insight. I own a car that doesnt make me a mechanic to be able to pass judgement on cars.
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Old 12 May 2021, 08:36 PM   #17
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No, but if you owned fifty of one manufacturer's cars you would more likely be an experienced collector, dealer or both and have some knowledge of your subject.

Ok Chris, I'm sorry that we don't agree and you will have to ignore my posts if I occasionally pass comments on watches that I think are right or wrong.

We all have our own approach to vintage Rolex and I genuinely wish you well with yours.

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Old 12 May 2021, 08:56 PM   #18
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No, but if you own fifty of the world's finest cars you would more likely be an experienced collector, dealer or both and have some knowledge of your subject.

Ok Chris, I'm sorry that we don't agree and you will have to ignore my posts if I occasionally pass comments on watches that I think are right or wrong.

We all have our own approach to vintage Rolex and I genuinely wish you well with yours.

I understand your unwillingness to quote your reasons for doubting this dial. Why not inbox chris direct with your concerns, if your sure hes not a faker but has a genuine concerns.

Take care out there
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Old 12 May 2021, 09:52 PM   #19
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Hey guys....I'm new and my 1st post is asking for advice on the veracity of a watch....I have no currency here and I can totally understand people not wanting to give my query the time of day so I appreciate people taking the time to respond.

I've been the " experienced old hand" in my field and I like to think it's how we treat new guys that shows our character.

It's a little frustrating to be told "that's a fake" and not have the reasons explained...it makes it hard to reconcile.
Although I understand the reasons for not wanting to tip off the faker's.

I want to say again I don't have any reason to doubt the sellers honesty.

So I am in a quandary....experienced people say fake....based on the reading I did it looked ok and certainly matched other examples that were (at least stated) to be genuine.

If anyone wants to drop me a private message to explain why it's fake than that would be genuinely appreciated, however as I have said I have no currency here....I'm not paying for your expertise so why should you bother.....I understand that.

At the end of the day it's only a watch and I can always take my money elsewhere.
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Old 12 May 2021, 10:01 PM   #20
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Thanks, I've tried to do my research and I thought it had a lot of features that matched the generally accepted "standard" of genuine 5500 precision explorer dials. Fonts, gap in precision, shape of the hour markers, rounding of the tips on the 3 and the 9, position of the Swiss T < etc....
I'm far from an expert but I have tried to absorb as much info as is available.
Could you elaborate and exactly why it looks fake?
The dial is fake in my opinion because as bears a remarkable similarity to the fake dials that are mounted in 95% of the Explorer 5500's that people post on this forum looking for input into authenticity. These dials are readily available online, (I'm not going to post a link ) and I believe that the person taking the pictures of your watch knows all this, so I would walk away from this watch and this seller.
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Old 13 May 2021, 02:11 AM   #21
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No i dont think so you own that particular watch that gives you an insight. I own a car that doesnt make me a mechanic to be able to pass judgement on cars.
The real difference is that Haywood does not own "one" watch but dozens and dozens of vintage Rolex watches worth in the hundred of thousands of dollars or more. And he is a very respected member of this community and a scholar so when he speaks we listen.

Instead it looks like you're just a troll trying to provoke reactions but unfortunately for you you won't succeed. Now just go away, thank you.

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Old 13 May 2021, 02:46 AM   #22
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. . .

It's obviously an Air-king with a nice condition case and genuine movement but to be worth the money the dial has to be correct! 
This is exactly why so many Air-Kings have had Explorer dials fitted.
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Old 13 May 2021, 03:09 AM   #23
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The real difference is that Haywood does not own "one" watch but dozens and dozens of vintage Rolex watches worth in the hundred of thousands of dollars or more. And he is a very respected member of this community and a scholar so when he speaks we listen.

Instead it looks like you're just a troll trying to provoke reactions but unfortunately for you you won't succeed. Now just go away, thank you.

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You have obviously nothing to offer! Except cast aspersions. The only 2 genuine offers of help have come from 1675 david and tools. Tools has answered some my q's befofe and i value his opinions. As for trolling i was just trying to get this guy some answers, thats all he asked. So all i say to you is arrivederci move along pick on some else.
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Old 13 May 2021, 07:45 AM   #24
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IBTL time?
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Old 13 May 2021, 09:15 AM   #25
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I would be honored if Haywood Milton took the time to respond to my post, and I would simply take his opinion as a given and move on. It's not his job to teach you, that comes with time and experience. Take responsibility for your own knowledge.
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Old 13 May 2021, 11:39 AM   #26
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I would be honored if Haywood Milton took the time to respond to my post, and I would simply take his opinion as a given and move on. It's not his job to teach you, that comes with time and experience. Take responsibility for your own knowledge.
Wow! I'm sure the OP has no idea who Haywood Milton is, and if not taught, how does one learn. Get over yourselves
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Old 13 May 2021, 01:01 PM   #27
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Wow! I'm sure the OP has no idea who Haywood Milton is, and if not taught, how does one learn. Get over yourselves
Bizarre comment. In case you haven't noticed, this forum isn't actually a free drive-by evaluation service and nobody has any obligation to provide their hard-won expertise to a stranger who has never participated previously. It's a community with give and take. Someone who drops in out of the blue and asks for help from experts should probably be grateful for what they receive. Personally, I would be happy and thankful to get opinions in response to my question. And honestly, the OP seems to understand this.
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Old 13 May 2021, 03:41 PM   #28
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I would be honored if Haywood Milton took the time to respond to my post, and I would simply take his opinion as a given and move on. It's not his job to teach you, that comes with time and experience. Take responsibility for your own knowledge.
My thoughts
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Old 13 May 2021, 04:15 PM   #29
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I would be honored if Haywood Milton took the time to respond to my post, and I would simply take his opinion as a given and move on. It's not his job to teach you, that comes with time and experience. Take responsibility for your own knowledge.
Exactly.

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Old 13 May 2021, 04:44 PM   #30
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Thanks for the advice guys regretfully I think I will pass on the watch.

It would be nice to understand what a genuine piece looks like (that's what I came for after all). I did read and research a lot before dropping the question here. Obviously I didn't read enough. If anyone wants to point me to the right resources it would be gratefully received - it would be a shame if the knowledge was held and dispenced only by a few experts. I think part of the joy of any hobby or interest is to learn and improve your knowledge. To be honest it kinda puts me off if the discussion is framed only in terms of "fake - but you are too new to be told why - be grateful"

Thanks again for responding. Please try to be nice to each!
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