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jayc6 · 25 June 2022, 05:34 AM

Hello everyone.

Do you guys know when the Sub Date ref 16800 was first released by Rolex ?
I have found both 1977 and 1979 and I would like to make sure when it was first released.
I found a 16800 to buy but the guy mentions it is from 1977 (serial 4'703'5xx) which surprises me as I was sure it has only been released in 1979.

Thanks a lot.

TunaTuna · 25 June 2022, 05:37 AM

Google??

jayc6 · 25 June 2022, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TunaTuna

Google??

I found both dates on google, both 1977 and 1979 so don't know which one is correct.

Jefferyasher · 25 June 2022, 10:45 AM

1979

KY.. · 25 June 2022, 01:13 PM

My 1680 is from ‘77 and I’ve seen others up to ‘79 so I would think the transition would be around ‘79.

Rolexken · 25 June 2022, 03:43 PM

https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-bl...nce-16800.html

This says 1978 !

Haywood_Milton · 25 June 2022, 06:48 PM

Er…..service replacement case perhaps ?

jayc6 · 25 June 2022, 07:41 PM

Thank you all for your answers.
1979 seems to be correct, I will email Rolex and see if I get an answer from them. If I do I will share the answer here.
Replacement case is indeed a possibility I did not think about, this drops the value of the watch dramatically though.

I will let you know if I get an answer from Rolex.
A good day to you all.

FrenchBigCrown · 25 June 2022, 08:50 PM

It also depends on whose serial number list you use... there is some confusion/differences about serial numbers between 1976 and 1985.

My two 16800s are 6,4 serial numbers.

It will be interesting to see what answer Rolex give you.

Haywood_Milton · 25 June 2022, 08:51 PM

Sometimes there is an "over-lap" of one version of the same model with another. For example, the Sea-Dweller 1665 and 16600 were not only made alongside one another (as over-lapping case numbers betray), but actively marketed alongside each other as demonstrated in the last line of this page from a main agent booklet of the time :

However, this does not appear to be the case with the 1680 (acrylic glass, 1575 calibre) and its successor 16800 (sapphire glass, 3035 calibre).

I record examples of the 1680 up to 619xxxx case numbers and not thereafter.

I record examples of the 16800 from 633xxxx case numbers and not earlier. There is reason to think this starting point is a 1980 number range and as it happens 1981 is the earliest date I am aware of on accompanying papers for a 16800, but they may well have been sold a little earlier than that.

I am aware of service replacement cases very close to that of the 47035xx watch that you have been offered and it seems all but certain this is what it is.

It should be valued less than a watch with an original case, but by how much is open to debate. I would suggest 20% for this model but others may feel differently.

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

FrenchBigCrown · 25 June 2022, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

I am aware of service replacement cases very close to that of the 47035xx watch that you have been offered and it seems all but certain this is what it is.

I agree.

jayc6 · 26 June 2022, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

It also depends on whose serial number list you use... there is some confusion/differences about serial numbers between 1976 and 1985.

My two 16800s are 6,4 serial numbers.

It will be interesting to see what answer Rolex give you.

Indeed, and that is why I have created this thread as it is really difficult to know when was the year of first release. They are some transition models and overlap years so it can be hard to define the precise year of first release.
I have emailed rolex today and got a call from a sales Manager who told me that they do not have a precise answer to give me yet and that they have to have a look to their archives. they will call me back next week.
I will keep you posted.
Thanks again for your answers.
Cheers

jayc6 · 26 June 2022, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

I agree.

Thanks a lot to you both. So if I understand you well, it can be a 16800 submariner from 1979 with a 1680 replacement case. Correct ?

FrenchBigCrown · 26 June 2022, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

Thanks a lot to you both. So if I understand you well, it can be a 16800 submariner from 1979 with a 1680 replacement case. Correct ?

More likely from 1981 (or later) with a replacement case.

I'm of the opinion that no 16800s were sold until 1981 (they may have been manufactured in 1980 though) - I don't believe there was a crossover here - and new 1680s were still being sold (and I presume manufactured) in 1979.

Just my opinion (based on 1680s and 16800s I own and/or have owned).

Styles Bitchley · 26 June 2022, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

Thanks a lot to you both. So if I understand you well, it can be a 16800 submariner from 1979 with a 1680 replacement case. Correct ?

If it’s a replacement case and you don’t have any paperwork, you can’t accurately date it at all. The seller is probably using the serial to approximately date it without realizing it’s a replacement case. Does it have a matte dial?

springer · 26 June 2022, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

Thank you all for your answers.
1979 seems to be correct, I will email Rolex and see if I get an answer from them. If I do I will share the answer here.
Replacement case is indeed a possibility I did not think about, this drops the value of the watch dramatically though.

I will let you know if I get an answer from Rolex.
A good day to you all.

It is a service case as Haywood mentioned.

jayc6 · 26 June 2022, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Styles Bitchley

If it’s a replacement case and you don’t have any paperwork, you can’t accurately date it at all. The seller is probably using the serial to approximately date it without realizing it’s a replacement case. Does it have a matte dial?

The dial is glossy and is a replacement dial with Swiss made written at 6 o'clock.
The case back says 16800, serial is 4'703'525 and the watch is supposed to be from 1977.
So if I understand, the watch is from at least 1979 but could be 1980 81, and has a replacement case from before 1979. So the seller is misled by this serial and believes that his watch is from 1977. Correct ?

I have received a call from Rolex and they told me that they have to check the archives to know when it was first released. I will let you know.

Thanks to you all, great knowledge on TRF.

FrenchBigCrown · 26 June 2022, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

The dial is glossy and is a replacement dial with Swiss made written at 6 o'clock.
The case back says 16800, serial is 4'703'525 and the watch is supposed to be from 1977.
So if I understand, the watch is from at least 1979 but could be 1980 81, and has a replacement case from before 1979. So the seller is misled by this serial and believes that his watch is from 1977. Correct ?

I have received a call from Rolex and they told me that they have to check the archives to know when it was first released. I will let you know.

Thanks to you all, great knowledge on TRF.

Going on your first post... you haven't bought this yet?

Unless it's very, very cheap, personally speaking (typing) I'd find another 16800 without a 'story' - there are many 'correct' examples out there - if you ever come to sell this watch, you'd be doing a lot of 'explaining'.

Your call, of course.

Good luck whatever you decide.

jedly1 · 26 June 2022, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

The dial is glossy and is a replacement dial with Swiss made written at 6 o'clock.
The case back says 16800, serial is 4'703'525 and the watch is supposed to be from 1977.
So if I understand, the watch is from at least 1979 but could be 1980 81, and has a replacement case from before 1979. So the seller is misled by this serial and believes that his watch is from 1977. Correct ?

I have received a call from Rolex and they told me that they have to check the archives to know when it was first released. I will let you know.

Thanks to you all, great knowledge on TRF.

4.7 doesn’t relate to 1977

4.4 , 4.7 , 4.9 denote service cases and were never used in time sequence . It’s a service case full stop , from when it’s almost impossible to know without documentation , though inside the back might be an Rsc service mark with the date .

Kingface66 · 27 June 2022, 12:14 AM

This chart (from a sticky on the vintage forum here) helps explain that the range of serial numbers in the mid-high 4,xxx,xxx range, like the one on your case, are SERVICE NUMBERS.

[IMG]

[/IMG]

Haywood_Milton · 27 June 2022, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

Thanks a lot to you both. So if I understand you well, it can be a 16800 submariner from 1979 with a 1680 replacement case. Correct ?

This is definitely not correct, no.

If one were needed, a 1680 would receive ONLY a 1680 service replacement case and a 16800 would receive ONLY a 16800 replacement.

Haywood_Milton · 27 June 2022, 03:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

The dial is glossy and is a replacement dial with Swiss made written at 6 o'clock.
The case back says 16800, serial is 4'703'525 and the watch is supposed to be from 1977.
So if I understand, the watch is from at least 1979 but could be 1980 81, and has a replacement case from before 1979. So the seller is misled by this serial and believes that his watch is from 1977. Correct ?

I have received a call from Rolex and they told me that they have to check the archives to know when it was first released. I will let you know.

Thanks to you all, great knowledge on TRF.

The original watch could have been from any point within the production run of the 16800, so from circa 1980 until the 16610 replaced it about ten years later (I can confirm the end-point once back at my office, if needed).

jayc6 · 27 June 2022, 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrenchBigCrown

Going on your first post... you haven't bought this yet?

Unless it's very, very cheap, personally speaking (typing) I'd find another 16800 without a 'story' - there are many 'correct' examples out there - if you ever come to sell this watch, you'd be doing a lot of 'explaining'.

Your call, of course.

Good luck whatever you decide.

Thanks a lot for your concern and advice. No I haven't bought this watch as it smells.
It is always good to have advices from other Rolex aficionados.
Thanks

jayc6 · 27 June 2022, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jedly1

4.7 doesn’t relate to 1977

4.4 , 4.7 , 4.9 denote service cases and were never used in time sequence . It’s a service case full stop , from when it’s almost impossible to know without documentation , though inside the back might be an Rsc service mark with the date .

Thanks a lot for sharing this, it is not only very helpful for me but also fo others.
Very much appreciated.

jayc6 · 27 June 2022, 03:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haywood_Milton

This is definitely not correct, no.

If one were needed, a 1680 would receive ONLY a 1680 service replacement case and a 16800 would receive ONLY a 16800 replacement.

That's true, I should have re read my answer before posting. Thanks a lot for correcting me as well as for your help.

Chris75 · 27 June 2022, 10:36 AM

late 79 imo

jayc6 · 27 June 2022, 10:15 PM

Hi everyone,
I just got a call from Rolex with the info.
And the winner is
Drum roll.......
1979

Most of you were right.
I am really amazed by the amount of knowledge on the forum.
I don't know how you guys know replacement case serial numbers but it has been of a great help

Thanks to you all.

Swearengen · 27 June 2022, 10:37 PM

4.4m-4.7m is the replacement case s/n range

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

Hi everyone,

I don't know how you guys know replacement case serial numbers but it has been of a great help

Thanks to you all.

Filipão · 28 June 2022, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayc6

Hi everyone,
I just got a call from Rolex with the info.
And the winner is
Drum roll.......
1979

You got Rolex to call you? Wow, you must be a true VIP!

Haywood_Milton · 6 July 2022, 09:23 AM

Further on 47xxxxx replacement case numbers, here is a late example that I have just advised on. It was originally a circa 2001 Pxxxxxx case number Day-Date 118208, but the new case bears the service replacement number both between lugs and on inner rehaut, as shown ! If memory serves, the latter feature was first introduced with the Turn-Graph 11626x series of watches circa 2005.

Insta : haywood_milton_rolex

25 June 2022, 05:34 AM	#1
jayc6 "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Switzerland Posts: 40	Was the Sub date 16800 first released in 1977 or 1979? Hello everyone. Do you guys know when the Sub Date ref 16800 was first released by Rolex ? I have found both 1977 and 1979 and I would like to make sure when it was first released. I found a 16800 to buy but the guy mentions it is from 1977 (serial 4'703'5xx) which surprises me as I was sure it has only been released in 1979. Thanks a lot.

25 June 2022, 01:13 PM	#5
KY.. 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Nov 2021 Real Name: Keith Location: California Watch: 60s to 90s Posts: 1,261	My 1680 is from ‘77 and I’ve seen others up to ‘79 so I would think the transition would be around ‘79. __________________ Just an admirer/enthusiast of vintage Rolex/Heuer/Zenith/Breitling/Hamilton watches since the 80’s… ”I Do Love The Details, But I Can Choose If I Accept The Flaws…”

25 June 2022, 06:48 PM	#7
Haywood_Milton "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Yes, it is ! Location: Cheshire & Mersey Watch: Military issue Sub Posts: 1,319	Er…..service replacement case perhaps ? __________________ Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 Milgauss 1019x3 Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660.

25 June 2022, 08:51 PM	#10
Haywood_Milton "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Yes, it is ! Location: Cheshire & Mersey Watch: Military issue Sub Posts: 1,319	Sometimes there is an "over-lap" of one version of the same model with another. For example, the Sea-Dweller 1665 and 16600 were not only made alongside one another (as over-lapping case numbers betray), but actively marketed alongside each other as demonstrated in the last line of this page from a main agent booklet of the time : However, this does not appear to be the case with the 1680 (acrylic glass, 1575 calibre) and its successor 16800 (sapphire glass, 3035 calibre). I record examples of the 1680 up to 619xxxx case numbers and not thereafter. I record examples of the 16800 from 633xxxx case numbers and not earlier. There is reason to think this starting point is a 1980 number range and as it happens 1981 is the earliest date I am aware of on accompanying papers for a 16800, but they may well have been sold a little earlier than that. I am aware of service replacement cases very close to that of the 47035xx watch that you have been offered and it seems all but certain this is what it is. It should be valued less than a watch with an original case, but by how much is open to debate. I would suggest 20% for this model but others may feel differently. Insta : haywood_milton_rolex __________________ Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 Milgauss 1019x3 Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660.

27 June 2022, 12:14 AM	#20
Kingface66 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: The Empire State Watch: 1966 Rolex 5513 Posts: 3,419	This chart (from a sticky on the vintage forum here) helps explain that the range of serial numbers in the mid-high 4,xxx,xxx range, like the one on your case, are SERVICE NUMBERS. [IMG][/IMG]

25 June 2022, 05:37 AM	#2
TunaTuna 2024 Pledge Member Join Date: Jun 2021 Location: Merica Posts: 1,310	Google??

25 June 2022, 10:45 AM	#4
Jefferyasher "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Ohio Posts: 327	1979

25 June 2022, 03:43 PM	#6
Rolexken "TRF" Member Join Date: Apr 2019 Location: England Posts: 772	https://www.bobswatches.com/rolex-bl...nce-16800.html This says 1978 !

25 June 2022, 07:41 PM	#8
jayc6 "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Switzerland Posts: 40	Thank you all for your answers. 1979 seems to be correct, I will email Rolex and see if I get an answer from them. If I do I will share the answer here. Replacement case is indeed a possibility I did not think about, this drops the value of the watch dramatically though. I will let you know if I get an answer from Rolex. A good day to you all.

25 June 2022, 08:50 PM	#9
FrenchBigCrown "TRF" Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: France Posts: 1,076	It also depends on whose serial number list you use... there is some confusion/differences about serial numbers between 1976 and 1985. My two 16800s are 6,4 serial numbers. It will be interesting to see what answer Rolex give you.

27 June 2022, 10:36 AM	#26
Chris75 "TRF" Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Switzerland Posts: 75	late 79 imo

27 June 2022, 10:15 PM	#27
jayc6 "TRF" Member Join Date: Feb 2021 Location: Switzerland Posts: 40	Hi everyone, I just got a call from Rolex with the info. And the winner is Drum roll....... 1979 Most of you were right. I am really amazed by the amount of knowledge on the forum. I don't know how you guys know replacement case serial numbers but it has been of a great help Thanks to you all.

6 July 2022, 09:23 AM	#30
Haywood_Milton "TRF" Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Real Name: Yes, it is ! Location: Cheshire & Mersey Watch: Military issue Sub Posts: 1,319	Further on 47xxxxx replacement case numbers, here is a late example that I have just advised on. It was originally a circa 2001 Pxxxxxx case number Day-Date 118208, but the new case bears the service replacement number both between lugs and on inner rehaut, as shown ! If memory serves, the latter feature was first introduced with the Turn-Graph 11626x series of watches circa 2005. Insta : haywood_milton_rolex __________________ Comex:5513,5514,1665x2,16800x2,16600 Mil sub:5517x2,5513x9,5512 Submariner:6536/1x2,5508,5513 PCG u/line & double SWISS (America's Cup),5513 giltx2, 5513 m-firstx2,5513 gloss WGx2,1680 Red,1680 White Mk1 & Mk2 Sea-Dweller:1665 DRSDx3,Great Whitex3 GMT-Master:6542x2 (1 Bakelite),1675x8 (2 gilt), 16750 & SeaKing 116710LN Explorer:1016x6 (1 gilt),5500x3,14270 Blackout, Orange 1655 x4 Milgauss 1019x3 Cosmo 6263 *RNCD DSSD 116660.

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