Am I being scammed?

[chris_xitsas]

I agreed to purchase a 2009 Rolex Submariner from a member over on WatchesUSeek located in Germany (I'm in UK). He seemed like a great seller at the beginning - prompt replies, photos of watch as requested (showing serial numbers and papers), we exchanged ID documents (passports and recent bank statements) and even signed a contract (signatures and addresses matched perfectly).

On the back of that I wired him the cash in the first week of February. Then the stories started...

He wasn't able to ship the watch immediately. Then he said he shipped it a week later, but I didn't get tracking number. Then apparently dhl returned the package to him without explanation.

A second shipping attempt was apparently made, I didn't get tracking number until a few days later, which didn't work. A week later the watch again was returned apparently.

Communication became more scarce, but he kept trying to reassure me that he was sorry for the problems and just too busy to sort it out - he is my dad's age, 55 years old and a financial director at a big company (apparently, though his id documents stacked up)

He said he would arrange to wire the money back to me until he manages to get the watch to me (and i could pay him then). Needless to say, the money never arrived - apparently he is still chasing his bank down and is getting a friend to send me money instead.

A third delivery attempt was made, this time with a support story that he didn't fill in customs papers previously because he didn't know that was needed (as it's a transaction within the EU) but this time he apparently completed it all.

Still no watch...same story for a 4th failed attempt apparently.

I've now started telling him I'll commence legal proceedings in Germany - which I will on the back of the contract we signed. His communication has become even less rare, now weekly only to say he's trying to get money to me while locating the watch, but with no explanation what has gone wrong with recent delivery attempts.

It has taken me a long time to convince myself he is trying to con me - all the due diligence I carried out initially stacked up perfectly and the seller was very communicative and honest...I still don't want to believe I am being tricked, but I think I have to own up to it and get serious about the legal proceedings and visiting Germany to sort this crook out.

Happy to hear your thoughts guys, I'm really in a dilemma about this...

Thanks

Chris

[MonBK]

Yes, act immediately.

[Britexpat76]

Jump on an aeroplane and sort it out.

[FTX I]

Sad to hear and I really hope you can work this out. Good luck.

[Watch This]

Im sorry to hear this. Does not sound good. Will add that I would never "exchange" bank statements and passports.

[swils8610]

Yes you were scammed. Sorry.

[Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by chris_xitsas

I agreed to purchase a 2009 Rolex Submariner from a member over on WatchesUSeek located in Germany (I'm in UK). He seemed like a great seller at the beginning - prompt replies, photos of watch as requested (showing serial numbers and papers), we exchanged ID documents (passports and recent bank statements) and even signed a contract (signatures and addresses matched perfectly).

On the back of that I wired him the cash in the first week of February. Then the stories started...

He wasn't able to ship the watch immediately. Then he said he shipped it a week later, but I didn't get tracking number. Then apparently dhl returned the package to him without explanation.

A second shipping attempt was apparently made, I didn't get tracking number until a few days later, which didn't work. A week later the watch again was returned apparently.

Communication became more scarce, but he kept trying to reassure me that he was sorry for the problems and just too busy to sort it out - he is my dad's age, 55 years old and a financial director at a big company (apparently, though his id documents stacked up)

He said he would arrange to wire the money back to me until he manages to get the watch to me (and i could pay him then). Needless to say, the money never arrived - apparently he is still chasing his bank down and is getting a friend to send me money instead.

A third delivery attempt was made, this time with a support story that he didn't fill in customs papers previously because he didn't know that was needed (as it's a transaction within the EU) but this time he apparently completed it all.

Still no watch...same story for a 4th failed attempt apparently.

I've now started telling him I'll commence legal proceedings in Germany - which I will on the back of the contract we signed. His communication has become even less rare, now weekly only to say he's trying to get money to me while locating the watch, but with no explanation what has gone wrong with recent delivery attempts.

It has taken me a long time to convince myself he is trying to con me - all the due diligence I carried out initially stacked up perfectly and the seller was very communicative and honest...I still don't want to believe I am being tricked, but I think I have to own up to it and get serious about the legal proceedings and visiting Germany to sort this crook out.

Happy to hear your thoughts guys, I'm really in a dilemma about this...

Thanks

Chris

sorry to hear Chris BUT, that's a LOT of personal info shared for a web transaction. forget the money for a moment, you can always file a shipping claim or something depending on the shipper service and whether you got insurance.

i'd be more concerned with keeping an eye on your credit and cancelling that passport if this seller goes underground.

you have no way of confirming who the person was (based on the info you provided here) until you call his/her employer and be sure the seller didn't just use a clone for details on a public individual.

hope it works out. good luck.

[cop414]

I'm afraid to say this doesn't look good, not sure why you gave him your bank account and passport information. I'd be much more concerned about that exchange at this point. I'd contact your local police and see what they advise. I'd also close out the bank accounts that you shared information on immediately. Best of luck.

[alexthegreat123]

Sorry to hear. Deal with dealer/person with solid reputation next time. Avoid headache for couple hundred bucks/full loss.

[Mosco]

Originally Posted by alexthegreat123

Sorry to hear. Deal with dealer/person with solid reputation next time. Avoid headache for couple hundred bucks/full loss.

^ this.

[crowncollection]

Act immediately

[ajg1960]

you were scammed

[TimeToGo]

Very sorry about your predicament..

How about naming the seller?

[chris_xitsas]

Sorry, to explain better, I didn't send my passport but we did sign a contract (on my request) with full name, DOB address and the like. I have seen his ID document but didn't send him mine. However, I did send him my bank transmission receipt which shows my bank details - thought I was being a good buyer! Argh, sigh

I will contact my police and bank just to check on my id being hijacked. Will then contact the local police and court in the locality of the seller address - hopefully they can help me locate the person using the bank details I have.

To name and shame (and in the hope anyone can find more info) the seller's details I was given are:

Michael Holt
Diebrocker Strasse 91
32051 Herford
Account no. 121260401
BLZ. 43 04 0036

At the time the seller had a few good comments and posts on WUS, so having done all my DD I "bought into the seller". I'm a cautious person, but he didn't once push things, was very friendly (talking about where he is from in Germany and where my relatives are from) didn't even try hard to convince me on the sale or the transaction. He had all and every info I asked for on the watch...like I said, I've done transactions before and thought I knew what questions to ask...clearly not, I feel like a right tit now

[DPE]

Report this to your local UK Police and they will contact the Police in Germany. You can request to be kept updated. Then decide if you want to travel over to the address he gave you. Report this to your Bank so to be aware of further actions. I would have thought your biggest worry could be one of them setting up credit cards or loans using your details with the back up of your passport/bank statements/home adress that you gave him. You need to act very quickly with the reporting.

Don't feel silly, they are very good at making you feel safe. Report it now, if he is honest then he should not have messed you around.

[themaninblack]

Don't buy expensive items off the internet unless the seller is known to you personally or they are a reputable retailer. It cannot be said often enough.

[brandrea]

Originally Posted by cop414

I'm afraid to say this doesn't look good, not sure why you gave him your bank account and passport information. I'd be much more concerned about that exchange at this point. I'd contact your local police and see what they advise. I'd also close out the bank accounts that you shared information on immediately. Best of luck.

This, and the sooner the better! Sorry to hear, I hope everything works out for you

[chris_xitsas]

Someone suggested I share the forum name on WUS which was STALT and email is hanke_66@yahoo.de

Thanks everyone

[themaninblack]

How many online sellers would send a stranger a watch on the basis of a deposit and then wait for that buyer to send them the money after receipt of the watch. Very very few I imagine. Trust is a two way street but this online stuff only favours the seller.

[SkyKing31]

Sorry to hear that you were scammed. I hope you contact law enforcement in you're area if you haven't already done so. I hate to see people scammed out of their hard earned money and or possesions. I hope something can be done and you can get you're money back. Best of luck to you

[AK797]

Sorry to hear that and make things as publicly difficult for him as possible. When buying online this is often the best protection a buyer has if they use a bank transfer, to publicly name and shame them so that scamming you is not worth their while so before buying make sure the seller has a lot to lose, like the trusted sellers here do, if not you will always be open with bank transfer.

[chris_xitsas]

Can the mods please check to see if hanke_66@yahoo.de has any accounts on this forum and if so name and shame and ban!?
Thanks

[chris_xitsas]

An update on what I have been doing to get justice on this scam and what advice I can give to UK residents who have been subject of scams:

1) Call your bank and report the scam. If it is a fraud (i.e. someone hacked into your account and stole money, the bank will refund the money). Unfortunately, this is not the case where you have sent money to someone willingly – that’s classified as a “scam” and at your own risk. However, report it to the bank and they will monitor your account for suspicious activity at least. If you have given personal details out (name, address, DOB and bank account details, etc), seriously consider closing your bank account – the scammer could use those details to set up direct debits, standing orders, apply for loan products, etc.

2) If in the UK inform CIFAS, who offer a personal fraud protection service for £20/year– they basically place a warning flag against your name and other personal details on the National Fraud Database and any organisation that uses CIFAS will then pay special attention to your details (i.e. require extra checks when applying for products or services). Call 0330 100 0180 or visit www.cifas.org.uk

3) If in the UK report to Action Fraud – they are the UK’s national fraud and internet crime reporting centre (basically take the police authority’s role and report to the National Fraud Intelligence Bureau). Once reported, the NFIB will investigate to see if they can assist further and will then contact you to do so if they can. Call 0300 123 2404 or visit www.actionfraud.police.uk

4) Report to the national police authority – I went to the German Landespolizei for the area in which I suspect the scammer lives (and thanks for the help people in this forum gave me to trace his true home town via his bank’s sort code / BLZ). The German police have a link on their website where you can report an internet fraud – I have given full details on there and hopefully they can find the person using the bank account details.

By way of further update, I am convinced the scammer was in possession of the actual watch – he took photos of specific angles and date/time adjustments as I requested. However, amongst his elaborate con was also the original purchase receipt of the watch – it was purchased in 2014 from a jeweller in Munster, Germany.

I was able to contact the relevant jeweller and he has been helpful enough in checking his records – though he cannot disclose the details to me (data protection), he has confirmed he still has the customer’s name and address and is fully willing to cooperate with the German police. Further, the address he has for the customer matches the town in which the bank of the scammer is located. I finally have something tangible on the scammer – even if this is only the town for now.

I am hopeful that German authorities will act on the back of this information.

It crossed my mind to tell the scammer all of the above in the hope that he will regret messing with the wrong person (and forum for that matter) and send me the money back by way of denial of the whole matter?? What you guys think?

C

[Hilly10]

Really hope you get your money back Chris. Its a lesson learned.


Paul

[Welshwatchman]

Originally Posted by chris_xitsas

Can the mods please check to see if hanke_66@yahoo.de has any accounts on this forum and if so name and shame and ban!?
Thanks

Nothing matches this email address here.

[Furbo]

Originally Posted by chris_xitsas

A third delivery attempt was made, this time with a support story that he didn't fill in customs papers previously because he didn't know that was needed (as it's a transaction within the EU) but this time he apparently completed it all.

There are no customs papers for shipping inside EU. That is the whole point of EU. :)