Trusted Seller (101031-28) Violation of Forum Seller Policies

[Maitham89]

I'm writing this post regarding a terrible transaction I had with forum user 101031-28 (Ms Manuela) . I purchased a Daytona 116520 and on the post the watch was described as "like new" I checked the photos and everything seemed ok.

I contacted Manuela and she told me that the watch belongs to a close friend of her. She told me that he only wore the watch twice in the house and has been in the safe ever since.

After some negotiating we settled on a price and we made a deal.

I am currently out of the US so I had the watch sent to my brother who is studying in Washington, once the parcel was received my brother noticed that the bracelet was covered in scuffs and marks. He immediately contacted me and I contacted Manuela to inform her that I was not happy with the condition of the watch and this is when her story changed.

After I informed her she told me that she does not know the person that sent me the watch and that she was just selling the watch as a favor for her friend. So basically the seller is a friend of a friend. This is a violation of the Rolex forums seller policies that states “Any item listed must be legally owned by you and in your possession at the time you list it.”

She said that the seller had the watch inspected by his watchmaker friend and that watchmaker would have noticed the scratches.

She then offered a refund if I sent the watch back to her. I refused as I can no longer trust her or the seller. For all I know this could have been a ploy for me to be unhappy with the watch so I would send it back and then he would keep both the watch and my money.

I then asked her for reasonable compensation, as I would have to take the watch to the Rolex service center to get it checked out, serviced and polished to get the watch looking "like new" again, and also the fact that I was sent a watch in such a scuffed condition the value of the watch would be affected. So I asked for $1000.

Manuela sent my offer to the seller and he refused calling me a liar and accused me of changing the bracelet, he then offered $250 to make me “go away.”

I have made dozens of transactions on the forum and elsewhere I have many references that could vouch for me, I will list a few at the end of this post, this is the first time I have experienced something like this.

The fact that Manuela sold a watch on behalf of someone she does not know without even inspecting the watch herself is unacceptable and is damaging for her own reputation as she sold the watch based on the word of a person she does not know. She took a risk and it has backfired.

I believe in selling on behalf of someone she does not know is abusing her position in the forum as a trusted seller, all to make some quick money with no risk on her side.

At least I was fortunate enough to not have been sent out a replica watch as she was just taking the word of a person she does not know.

If the seller refuses my offer then Manuela should be held responsible for covering the costs as it is her that made the deal.

I will not accept to return the watch for a refund, as I can no longer trust Manuela (101031-28) or the seller and by accusing me that I switched the bracelet just confirms to me that he cannot be trusted.

I leave this message in the hands of the forum members to decide the right course of action here and to be aware of forum user 101031-28’s (Ms Manuela) way of doing business.

The fact that Manuela advertised this watch as “Like New” is ridiculous.

I have screenshots of all the conversations between myself and Ms Manuela, screenshots of the conversation with Ms Manuela and the person that sent me the watch and other evidence which I can share with the moderators if they so request.

I did not want to take this to the forum and I wanted to solve this situation peacefully but unfortunately we where unable to come to a reasonable agreement so I have brought this to the forums attention.

As user 101031-28 blatantly violated the forums trusted sellers policies, until this situation is resolved I kindly request the moderators to suspend user 101031-28 selling privileges on the forum.

Below are pictures of the watch I received, a screenshot of the original post description, several pictures from the original post and the list of references that can vouch for me as I have purchased dozens of watches from those sellers, More references and pictures/videos can be provided at the request of the moderators, as my account has less than 10 posts, as I use my account only make purchases I cannot post links but I can supply all the necessary links and images to the moderators.

List of references:

NASHVILLE WATCHS
DIAL HUAS
WILLINGTON WATCH BUYER
WATCH VINTAGE USA
JACEK MVV WATCHS
GABAGCAOILI95
RECARO18
THE TIMEPIECES GENTELMEN
WHITE535XI
ALEX COLLECTOR
JESSYW
NYCPASSAT
ALEX THE GREAT 123

[offrdmania]

It could go either way as I see it, I can see a lot of those scuffs in the sellers photos. Even though the rules were violated, that is another matter. Those polished center links are scuff magnets and you will notice that when you wear the watch a few times you too will get just as many scuffs just by resting your arms on a table or counter top. Those few scuffs are quite easy to remove with a fiberglass pencil and some cape code cloth.

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by offrdmania

It could go either way as I see it, I can see a lot of those scuffs in the sellers photos. Even though the rules were violated, that is another matter. Those polished center links are scuff magnets and you will notice that when you wear the watch a few times you too will get just as many scuffs just by resting your arms on a table or counter top. Those few scuffs are quite easy to remove with a fiberglass pencil and some cape code cloth.

Thank you for your advice and kind words.

[dimag333]

Hopefully you didn’t wire, I don’t know why anyone takes that chance, hope it works out, seller is in the wrong if this is all facts

steve

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by dimag333

Hopefully you didn’t wire, I don’t know why anyone takes that chance, hope it works out, seller is in the wrong if this is all facts

steve

I did my very best to make the buyer happy by offering to take the watch back for a full refund and also had the original owner agree to a partial refund of USD 250.00 both declined by the buyer.

[BillA]

The whole story stinks about her selling the watch for a friend and now not knowing where is came from. I would not worry about the scuffs I would make sure the watch is real and not a fake. If real, you are very lucky.

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by BillA

The whole story stinks about her selling the watch for a friend and now not knowing where is came from. I would not worry about the scuffs I would make sure the watch is real and not a fake. If real, you are very lucky.

Thank you for your concern. The Daytona that was sold is 100% original and a complete set. Prior to the sale, it was verified in person by the owner of the watch at the local Rolex partner service center in Ormond Beach, Florida who is available to confirm all of the above if need be.

[Knappo 1307]

Trusted seller? I've never heard of him/her....

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Trusted seller? I've never heard of him/her....

You are correct, I am simply a private collector and a forum member in excellent standing since 2009.

[101031-28]

I'd like to share my side of the story. I am a private collector with many decades of watch dealings with some of the biggest names on this forum, including David Williams, Tony Geha, Gagan Navani, Patrick Aziz and Sohail Habib just to name a few. I have been a member in great standing on TRF since 2009. The Daytona belongs to a close friend of the owner of the Rolex Partner Service Center located in Ormond Beach, Florida who has been a very close friend of mine for over 10 years (I used to live in Central Florida) and is the person who asked if I could help his friend sell the Daytona. I was not aware that it is not permitted to sell a watch that is not yours. For that I apologize. As far as this transaction is concerned, the buyer whom was very difficult and pushy to deal with, insisted almost to the point of harassment, I sell him the watch for USD 18,000.00. After many exchanges and multiple photographs, I agreed to sell the watch for USD 19,500.00 wire transfer, shipping Fedex overnight ParcelPro insured at my full expense. When his brother received the watch, the buyer contacted me saying the watch had multiple scratches on the bracelet. I contacted the original owner who reiterated that his watch was in excellent condition and that he had it fully inspected at the Rolex partner service center and was given the thumbs up. I offered the buyer to return the watch to me for a full refund, he declined. He demanded a partial refund of USD 1,000.00 The original owner agreed to a USD 250.00 partial refund to cover for a bracelet refinishing. The buyer refused that as well. I tried my best to please this individual. I am an honest collector with many years of happy deals. I honestly was not aware of this policy but I will most definitely never sell a watch as a favor ever again! This person has been a nightmare to deal with.

[Maitham89]

Originally Posted by 101031-28

As far as this transaction is concerned, the buyer whom was very difficult and pushy to deal with, insisted almost to the point of harassment, I sell him the watch for USD 18,000.00. After many exchanges and multiple photographs, I agreed to sell the watch for USD 19,500.00 wire transfer, shipping Fedex overnight ParcelPro insured at my full expense.

As for your accusation of harassment, when I first contacted you about the watch I asked you what the situation was and you told me that you have received an offer of $17000, so I offered you $18000. When you refused the offer I then increased my offer to $19000 and when you declined again then I offered you $19500. I was always giving you the highest offer compared to what you had received from other buyers.

[101031-28]

I would like to reiterate that I sold a watch for a friend based on trust and the pictures I received. I apologize for breaking a forum rule I honestly was not aware of or I never would have done it! I told the buyer the watch was not in my possession. Interesting that he knows the rule, yet did not say anything to me in that regard and still went ahead with his purchase.

I have been available 24/7 to assist this individual: I offered to take the Daytona back for a FULL refund, which he declined. I offered USD 250.00 for a bracelet polish, which he also declined.

[jimmytamp]

Originally Posted by 101031-28

Interesting that he knows the rule, yet did not say anything to me in that regard and still went ahead with his purchase.

As a seller, why you throw the responsibility “to read the rules” to others?

Clearly here the seller has breached the rules and must take the full responsibility to the seller.

SMH


https://www.instagram.com/fliegerb777/

[Maitham89]

If the watch was described as worn and the scratches and scuffs where clearly visible in the posts pictures I wouldn't have a problem, but you assured me that the watch was in "like new" condition and you even mentioned that in the original post.

You also told me that the seller is a close friend of yours and you only changed your story once I complained about the condition of the watch. Again I can provide screenshots of the conversation.

You violated the forum rules, I may not have any posts here but I understand that this forum of a tight knit community that runs on trust and you breached this trust by selling a watch you do not own nor was in your possession. It would have taken you minutes to read the rules and as you said you've been here for decades I'm surprised you haven't read them already.

As a seller you simply cannot be trusted.



Sent from my SM-G986B using Tapatalk

[CaveDweller]

Call it 500 for a polish and put it behind you - the important thing is that both of you will have learned something from this .....

[ninjajim4]

Definitely more inclined to side with the buyer based on the evidence provided.

The ad itself says 'truly like new condition' and only worn a few times around the house. And nothing about selling something not directly owned. All of it is deceptive.

As the buyer has demonstrated, the seller clearly could have shown pictures that more accurately displayed the watch's true condition.

Glad to hear someone else's input that the watch can be refurbished. I hope this works out for you, Maitham

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by ninjajim4

Definitely more inclined to side with the buyer based on the evidence provided.

The ad itself says 'truly like new condition' and only worn a few times around the house. And nothing about selling something not directly owned. All of it is deceptive.

As the buyer has demonstrated, the seller clearly could have shown pictures that more accurately displayed the watch's true condition.

Glad to hear someone else's input that the watch can be refurbished. I hope this works out for you, Maitham

As a private collector and occasional seller, I will never again sell a watch for a friend. My mistake. The watch was described by the owner as new and I had no reason to doubt him being a trusted friend of a long time friend of mine. I offered the buyer to return the watch to me for a full refund and he declined. I offered USD 250.00 for a bracelet polish and he refused that as well.

[Maitham89]

Originally Posted by ninjajim4

Definitely more inclined to side with the buyer based on the evidence provided.



The ad itself says 'truly like new condition' and only worn a few times around the house. And nothing about selling something not directly owned. All of it is deceptive.



As the buyer has demonstrated, the seller clearly could have shown pictures that more accurately displayed the watch's true condition.



Glad to hear someone else's input that the watch can be refurbished. I hope this works out for you, Maitham

Thanks ninjajim, being deceived this way is really frustrating and worst of all she claims that I switched the bracelet, it's an annoying feeling even someone is calling you a liar and they themselves are the ones that lied right from the beginning!

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by Maitham89

Thanks ninjajim, being deceived this way is really frustrating and worst of all she claims that I switched the bracelet, it's an annoying feeling even someone is calling you a liar and they themselves are the ones that lied right from the beginning!

I would like to clarify that I never called the buyer a liar. When I relayed to the original owner what was happening, the original owner said that his bracelet that was not scratched. I never called the buyer a liar, I was the person caught in the middle, listening to both sides. I will never ever do anything like this again! Lesson learned.

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by CaveDweller

Call it 500 for a polish and put it behind you - the important thing is that both of you will have learned something from this .....

I offered to take the watch back for a full refund, the buyer declined using laughable excuses. I offered USD 250 for a bracelet polish, he refused that as well. I have definitely learned a big lesson. Never again will I do a favor like this one!

[Maitham89]

Originally Posted by 101031-28

I offered to take the watch back for a full refund, the buyer declined using laughable excuses. I offered USD 250 for a bracelet polish, he refused that as well. I have definitely learned a big lesson. Never again will I do a favor like this one!

My reason for not returning the watch is not "laughable," as you so nicely put it. You have deceived with the description of the watch and are even going as far as to say that I "switched the bracelet," if that isn't laughable I don't know what is.

I simply cannot trust you enough to return the watch back to you for a refund. As you described the watch a "like new" and it clearly was not, once you receive the watch back you will see all the scratches and for I know you may not even return my entire amount if anything at all.

What difference does it make if I'm a private buyer or a seller I have all the right to bargain with the price.

This is no longer about the money but about exposing your terrible way of doing business by deceiving your customers, calling them liars and violating the policies of sale on this forum.

You should no longer be allowed to sell on this forum. As mentioned before I have had dozens of smooth transactions with the great sellers on this forum and you are the only one I have ever been deceived by. Total shame.

[tike71]

Originally Posted by 101031-28

I offered to take the watch back for a full refund, the buyer declined using laughable excuses. I offered USD 250 for a bracelet polish, he refused that as well. I have definitely learned a big lesson. Never again will I do a favor like this one!

Doesn't really matter that you offered a full refund. The buyer has, understandably, lost any and all confidence in your ability to fulfill your obligations.

[Knappo 1307]

Sounds like a lot of bad business practices were in play. The seller should have read the forum rules, and not be selling something that was not his and not in his/her possession. That alone is a big no-no. Then saying it was "like new" and again not having it to actually really know if it was like new, is just not good. It's always better in my experience to over describe the flaws and have a buyer be pleasantly surprised when they receive the watch than to be greatly disappointed. I know the seller is going to come on here and reply he/she offered to buy it back, and offered a sum for a polish, but that's not the point. I feel the seller was trying to do a favor, and got caught up in a description from his/her friend that was not accurate. He/she did offer to buy back the watch and or cover the polish, but I can absolutely see and feel the frustration of the buyer. I hope a lesson has been learned here, and hopefully not a banning...

[Maitham89]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Sounds like a lot of bad business practices were in play. The seller should have read the forum rules, and not be selling something that was not his and not in his possession. That alone is a big no-no. Then saying it was "like new" and again not having it to actually really know if it was like new, is just not good. It's always better in my experience to over describe the flaws and have a buyer be pleasantly surprised when they receive the watch than to be greatly disappointed. I know the seller is going to come on here and reply he offered to buy it back, and offered a sum for a polish, but that's not the point. I feel the seller was trying to do a favor, and got caught up in a description from his friend that was not accurate. He did offer to buy back the watch and or cover the polish, but I can absolutely see and feel the frustration of the buyer. I hope a lesson has been learned here, and hopefully not a banning...

Exactly, I have purchased watches in the past from other sellers that described the watch in great detail, pointing out every flaw and even taking almost microscopic pictures of the flaws. As they say "Buy the seller."

[101031-28]

Originally Posted by Knappo 1307

Sounds like a lot of bad business practices were in play. The seller should have read the forum rules, and not be selling something that was not his and not in his/her possession. That alone is a big no-no. Then saying it was "like new" and again not having it to actually really know if it was like new, is just not good. It's always better in my experience to over describe the flaws and have a buyer be pleasantly surprised when they receive the watch than to be greatly disappointed. I know the seller is going to come on here and reply he/she offered to buy it back, and offered a sum for a polish, but that's not the point. I feel the seller was trying to do a favor, and got caught up in a description from his/her friend that was not accurate. He/she did offer to buy back the watch and or cover the polish, but I can absolutely see and feel the frustration of the buyer. I hope a lesson has been learned here, and hopefully not a banning...

Thank you for your words. Most definitely lesson learned for me!

[Nikrnic]

"The owner only wore it twice in the house and it's been in the safe ever since" Looks like someone wore it more than twice.

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[Yousefsl]

Originally Posted by Nikrnic

"The owner only wore it twice in the house and it's been in the safe ever since" Looks like someone wore it more than twice.

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Must have been a rough couple of days!

[Carew]

sounding more and more like like two kids fighting in sand box! keep the watch and move on or send the watch back for a full refund and move on! end of story...

[Rocketman39]

"How Long is a Piece of Rope ?" What is like new ? Almost new ? Same as new ? I have run into the same thing on Car Condition. Perfect except this one Ding ! Just Saying.

[erhein]

Buyer: Ignore anyone who tells you, essentially, to suck it up and stop complaining. If any one of them had bought this watch, advertised as "like new" and received what you received, he/she would be squealing.

Seller: Sorry, if you described this watch as "like new," and this is the watch you delivered, you are not to be trusted.