End of Crypto?

[dmash]

Originally Posted by JoeJoeBobo

As this thread progresses BTC is soaring.

you were saying?

[SDGT3]

Originally Posted by HMHM

I think the collapse of crypto will be great! At least young adults will have a sense of reality that without hard work and a proper career, money doesn’t fall from the sky. Show up to work at 8am in the morning and get things done instead of dreaming about being a crypto billionaire like SBF who now might end up in jail. Bloomberg is comparing FTX to Theranos and Madoff - that’s definitely two people you don’t want to be associated with…

The comparison to the Madoff ponzi scheme definitely came to mind.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

The comparison to the Madoff ponzi scheme definitely came to mind.

Yes, as was the 2007/2008 mortgage-back 'securities' scam by investment bankers. There's manipulation by the OPEC cartel on oil supply, front-running stock purchases and sales by algos, selling 'flow' for profit....

There are an abundance of scams going on, some are more egregious than others in their risk-to-market CONfidence and overlying end-costs to consumers.

[INC]

Originally Posted by SDGT3

The comparison to the Madoff ponzi scheme definitely came to mind.

I don't think crypto is a scam per se, and I definitely don't think most of them are based on a Ponzy scheme. This kind of hysteria reminds me more of the famous Dutch tulip bulb market bubble, the tulip mania. IMO it was almost the same thing. There was something that had real value, but not nearly as much as its price had skyrocketed due to speculators. The rest of the story is well known. However, there are still tulip bulbs today on the market, but no one thinks that an ownership of one piece is enough to make him extremely rich.

[Gab27]

I'm not about to invest large amounts of money in crypto, but I highly doubt this is the end...it's just still rapidly evolving and it will probably continue to change at a pretty fast rate.

There have been a lot of times where the media has more or less said the end was near and so far that hasn't happened.

[Duey]

Crypto aka Bitcoin is not money in any way shape or form.

1) It has no intrinsic value in that it is not redeemable for another commodity, such as gold or cash.

2) It has no physical form and it exists only in the network.

3) Its supply is not determined by any central bank and its form is not recognized at all.


If you believe it is money good for you!

It's a math equation that's it

People try to tell others that it has a value but it does not because it is not real as the world sees reality ...

[JoeJoeBobo]

FTX debacle could very well be the final straw in the end of crypto at least until regulations are in place.

[enjoythemusic]

FTX Held Just $900 Million In Liquid Assets Vs $9 Billion In Liabilities

And-Its-Gone. (1).jpg

[superdog]

Given the most recent happenings and the article below, btc is holding better than I’d have imagined possible.

Granted, it’s still down and not looking good. But I would have expected a complete collapse at this point.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hundr...133219541.html

[huncho]

Originally Posted by superdog

Given the most recent happenings and the article below, btc is holding better than I’d have imagined possible.

Granted, it’s still down and not looking good. But I would have expected a complete collapse at this point.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/hundr...133219541.html

very little sellers left for btc, most of them capitulated and blew up in may/june and this event doesn't really have a direct impact on it. i don't really consider btc as crypto anymore though because of the fundamentals behind it anyway. with that said, i don't know if the rest actually recovers from this for a really long time though (if it even does). the biggest problem now is if it stays below 20 for too long and starts blowing up miners but i believe the biggest miner already capitulated over the summer

the saddest part is btc would probably be pushing 30k if this never happened given how stocks performed this week

[superdog]

Reading that folks like O’Leary, Curry, Cuban and Brady are taking big losses as they had large investments in crypto.

I can’t wrap my head around that. These guys have real money. I mean, multi generational wealth to the point where they (and future generations) almost can’t run out, unless they do something either stupid or risky.

Why invest in something, so largely, if it’s even remotely risky. Even the safest of investments, the most conservative investments, will provide returns that are massive for most of society. Massive!!

To me, it’s similar to that old adage, bulls and bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.

I just can’t wrap my head around it. How much do they need that they are taking such big risks to get big returns? Returns they do not, and never will, need.

[Moondoggy]

The only people who believe in crypto are those who have invested in it.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

The only people who believe in crypto are those who have invested in it.

Well, fwiw, logically, that makes sense.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by superdog

Reading that folks like O’Leary, Curry, Cuban and Brady are taking big losses as they had large investments in crypto.

I can’t wrap my head around that. These guys have real money. I mean, multi generational wealth to the point where they (and future generations) almost can’t run out, unless they do something either stupid or risky.

Why invest in something, so largely, if it’s even remotely risky. Even the safest of investments, the most conservative investments, will provide returns that are massive for most of society. Massive!!

To me, it’s similar to that old adage, bulls and bears make money. Pigs get slaughtered.

I just can’t wrap my head around it. How much do they need that they are taking such big risks to get big returns? Returns they do not, and never will, need.

Curry and Brady were just paid by ftx to be spokesmen. i've seen the headlines "set to lose big" but in reality no one knows how much they invested, if anything at all. maybe they invested a small amount in it for fun that they can afford to lose. Kevin and Cuban are totally different, these two are actually believers in crypto and want to see the industry grow and become something meaningful. again, they probably had a not so huge amount invested into ftx, if anything they got hurt more by having their own crypto sitting on there. i don't think these guys were full on risking half their net worths or something like that on crypto. you gotta realize both of them are also losing money on almost every deal they give on shark tank lol

this really just goes to show how big ftx was though, i mean they were donating to congress/politicians and getting close with the sec commissioner. they weren't just some random off shore exchange with an exit scam planned, they were legitimately building an empire, albeit it was on a house of cards of borrowed money. their name was everywhere. nba/mlb/nfl/f1/esports, all the biggest possible sponsorships

[Moondoggy]

Originally Posted by superdog

Well, fwiw, logically, that makes sense.

You can believe in something but not invest in it, however crypto does not fall in that line of thought.

[superdog]

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

You can believe in something but not invest in it, however crypto does not fall in that line of thought.

Good point. That makes sense.

[TheVTCGuy]

I am a complete Dorklehead when it comes to financial matters (hence, my current financial state) but I was on Youtube this afternoon and an interesting video came up; it was an advertisement infomercial for getting into DIGITAL REAL ESTATE.

Digital real estate… I’m sorry, I just don’t get it.

[enjoythemusic]

Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy

Digital real estate… I’m sorry, I just don’t get it.

Reminds me of early Dot Com when some thought just having a 'good' URL meant instant $$$$$$.

pets_puppet.gi.jpg

Originally Posted by Moondoggy

The only people who believe in crypto are those who have invested in it.

So it's like all modern (Yen, Dollar, Euro, etc) currencies... a CONfidence game. Well, except it takes energy to 'mine' crypto, yet only $1 in energy to add $1,000,000,000,000 to the USA debt.

On the other hand items of intrinsic value, such as 'money' (oil, gold, etc), are different. They have actual value that modern central bank currencies obviously do not.

[joeychitwood]

The amount of energy needed to “mine” crypto is astounding. One bitcoin transaction takes 1,449 kWh to complete, the equivalent of approximately 50 days of power for the average US household. All to basically solve a puzzle on a computer.

[1st amg]

https://twitter.com/stephen_geiger/s...ymlAfMFMLGA6iQ

This cracked me up


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

The amount of energy needed to “mine” crypto is astounding. One bitcoin transaction takes 1,449 kWh to complete, the equivalent of approximately 50 days of power for the average US household. All to basically solve a puzzle on a computer.

X2. I am a conservative guy, and not a “greenie” in any sense of the word. But I was asked to invest in one of these operations. They wanted $800,000 of my money and it was all for electricity. Wasteful and wasn’t for me.

[Andad]

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Andad

I don’t exactly understand your point. You’ve been rude since I joined in 2015, and I’m not sure what you get out of this.

[denmanproject]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

I don’t exactly understand your point. You’ve been rude since I joined in 2015, and I’m not sure what you get out of this.

Pretty sure he was referencing the post above yours

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by denmanproject

Pretty sure he was referencing the post above yours

Hope so, but I’ve seen enough to not be sure

[Andad]

Originally Posted by denmanproject

Pretty sure he was referencing the post above yours

Correct.



He seems to have issues?

[77T]

Originally Posted by enjoythemusic

FTX Held Just $900 Million In Liquid Assets Vs $9 Billion In Liabilities

Attachment 1330887

The place he put the other $8.1 billion wasn’t right - but that is the right liquid reserve, 10%.

Your real dollar-based banks do the same.

The Federal Reserve requires banks and other depository institutions to hold a minimum level of reserves against their deposits. Currently, the marginal reserve requirement is 10% of a bank's demand and checking deposits.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[Star Ferry]

Originally Posted by Andad

Correct.



Wayne seems to have issues?

don’t understand where you’re coming from. You’re nasty, condescending and rude. The admins here tolerate you for whatever reason, but I’m embarrassed to be associated with you.

[huncho]

Originally Posted by joeychitwood

The amount of energy needed to “mine” crypto is astounding. One bitcoin transaction takes 1,449 kWh to complete, the equivalent of approximately 50 days of power for the average US household. All to basically solve a puzzle on a computer.

this is extremely misleading and how the media gets people. a "single" bitcoin transaction can include hundreds of payments. the electricity is spent validating a block which rewards bitcoins to the miner. the block itself doesn't contain one transaction

“The popular ‘energy cost per transaction’ metric is regularly featured in the media and other academic studies despite having multiple issues.

“First, transaction throughput (i.e. the number of transactions that the system can process) is independent of the network’s electricity consumption. Adding more mining equipment and thus increasing electricity consumption will have no impact on the number of processed transactions.

“Second, a single Bitcoin transaction can contain hidden semantics that may not be immediately visible nor intelligible to observers. For instance, one transaction can include hundreds of payments to individual addresses, settle second-layer network payments (e.g. opening and closing channels in the Lightning network), or potentially represent billions of timestamped data points using open protocols such as OpenTimestamps.”

–Cambridge Centre For Alternative Finance, Cambridge University

the carbon footprint argument has been debunked many times but people just pretend like the facts don't exist. it'll be a lot more efficient once the chase for profits pushes more initiatives and technology for reusable energy (which already started), assuming btc lasts

more info : https://bitcoinmagazine.com/business...-is-misleading

“What would be Bitcoin’s environmental footprint assuming the absolute worst case? For this experiment, let’s use the annualised power consumption estimate from CBECI as of July 13th, 2021, which corresponds to roughly 70 TWh. Let’s also assume that all this energy comes exclusively from coal (the most-polluting fossil fuel) and is generated in one of the world’s least efficient coal-fired power plants (the now-decommissioned Hazelwood Power Station in Victoria, Australia). In this worst-case scenario, the Bitcoin network would be responsible for about 111 Mt (million metric tons) of carbon dioxide emission, accounting for roughly 0.35% of the world's total yearly emissions.”

–Cambridge Centre For Alternative Finance, Cambridge University

[Andad]

Originally Posted by Star Ferry

don’t understand where you’re coming from. You’re nasty, condescending and rude. The admins here tolerate you for whatever reason, but I’m embarrassed to be associated with you.

You’re welcome.