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Old 17 November 2022, 11:53 PM   #1
Speedbird-1
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Electric cars.

UK Chancellor announces, in Autumn Budget; "and electric vehicles will no longer be exempt from vehicle excise duty from April 2025"

The thin end of the wedge?
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Old 18 November 2022, 03:40 AM   #2
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Questions I have for electric car advocates:

1. Where to get clean electricity for millions of eclectic cars coming online?
2. With World economy gobbling up more and more electricity due to IT tech should we diversify transportation away from electricity consumption to avoid perfect storm?
3. If we press on with millions of electric cars who is going to pay for recycling of lithium batteries when landfills are full of them already. (less than 1% of batteries are being recycled currently).
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Old 18 November 2022, 04:15 AM   #3
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No, EVs are still the future. In CA they stopped the subsidized tax benefits a year ago, sales continue to climb. The EU will outlaw new ICE vehicles in some countries in 2032, others 2035. The US has several states including two of the three most populous, New York and California, will also adopt the no-new-ICE vehicles by 2035. Right now EVs only make up 5% of vehicles on the road, but that is supposed to be a tipping point and snowball to higher adoption. There are still lots of challenges, infrastructure, cost etc, but some day, I think about 20-25 years from now, there will be as many EVs on the road as ICE, and someday after that, ICE vehicles will be a novelty. Like it or not, EVs (or hydrogen or ?) ARE the future, ICE will be around for a long long time, but slowly they will be replaced.

PS After 2035 you will still be able to buy a Hybrid,
The best of both worlds. The 2023 Prius claims 57 MPG!
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Old 18 November 2022, 04:56 AM   #4
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As a citizen you will be aware, that UK are currently raising taxes on many fronts, has nothing to do with EVs in particular.

As for mandatory Zero Emmission Vehicles: Apparently the vast majority of carmakers are moving much faster towards EVs than the lawmakers dictate them to do.
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Old 18 November 2022, 05:25 AM   #5
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In California, 18% of new car sales are EVs, country wide 6%

https://electrek.co/2022/10/27/elect...ia-compare-us/

I am actually a little surprised, that is quite a bit more than I expected. I think this supports the snowball claim and that we are all on our way to replacing ICE. It will take years and years, but it has started.
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Old 18 November 2022, 06:37 AM   #6
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Auto sales are down almost 20% over pre-covid sales, so to say that EV's make up 6% now, may not indicate that actual sales numbers have moved at all.
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Old 18 November 2022, 07:16 AM   #7
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i look forward to when the batteries need replacing. My lithium investment play from years back is already paying off.
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Old 18 November 2022, 07:17 AM   #8
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this is me when someone in my car tries to 'convince' me of the green'ness of green technologies.

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Old 18 November 2022, 07:47 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by TheVTCGuy View Post
No, EVs are still the future. In CA they stopped the subsidized tax benefits a year ago, sales continue to climb. The EU will outlaw new ICE vehicles in some countries in 2032, others 2035. The US has several states including two of the three most populous, New York and California, will also adopt the no-new-ICE vehicles by 2035. Right now EVs only make up 5% of vehicles on the road, but that is supposed to be a tipping point and snowball to higher adoption. There are still lots of challenges, infrastructure, cost etc, but some day, I think about 20-25 years from now, there will be as many EVs on the road as ICE, and someday after that, ICE vehicles will be a novelty. Like it or not, EVs (or hydrogen or ?) ARE the future, ICE will be around for a long long time, but slowly they will be replaced.

PS After 2035 you will still be able to buy a Hybrid,
The best of both worlds. The 2023 Prius claims 57 MPG!
Not everyone drinks the California Kool-Aid.
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Old 18 November 2022, 07:50 AM   #10
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I loath Kool Aid...
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Old 18 November 2022, 07:58 AM   #11
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Not everyone drinks the California Kool-Aid.
Yeah, we Californians are a crazy bunch. What do you think of New York, Washington? How about the COUNTRIES of Belgium, Iceland, Germany, Ireland, Israel ETC. Of course, all those thousands of scientists, environmentalists, engineers, all of them must be wrong.
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Old 18 November 2022, 09:11 AM   #12
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this is me when someone in my car tries to 'convince' me of the green'ness of green technologies.


Ah…Touch of Evil reference, yes?


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Old 18 November 2022, 11:08 AM   #13
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Originally Posted by MEDIASAPIENS View Post
Questions I have for electric car advocates:

1. Where to get clean electricity for millions of eclectic cars coming online?
2. With World economy gobbling up more and more electricity due to IT tech should we diversify transportation away from electricity consumption to avoid perfect storm?
3. If we press on with millions of electric cars who is going to pay for recycling of lithium batteries when landfills are full of them already. (less than 1% of batteries are being recycled currently).
All very valid questions, not being a scientist I don’t have an answer. The only thing I can say I know for sure is there were a lot of problems when the world switched from Horses to automobiles. We solved all those, we will solve these. the fact that so many countries are stopping the sales of ICE-only vehicles over the next 15 or so years makes me believe there ARE solutions.
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Old 18 November 2022, 11:41 AM   #14
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I loath Kool Aid...
What if I gave you a free pair of Nike shoes, would you then drink the Kool Aid? Heaven's Gate awaits us all, together, as we're all God's children.
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Old 18 November 2022, 11:57 AM   #15
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Lithium prices are up more than 5 times since the start of the year. As far as I know almost all lithium refining is done in China though western legislation is attempting to change that. I think it’s easier said than done for a western company to refine Lithium profitably and stay compliant with environmental laws. Otherwise they’d have done it already.
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Old 18 November 2022, 12:05 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=TheVTCGuy;12474158]Yeah, we Californians are a crazy bunch. What do you think of New York, Washington? How about the COUNTRIES of Belgium, Iceland, Germany, Ireland, Israel ETC. Of course, all those thousands of scientists, environmentalists, engineers, all of them must be wrong.[/QUOTE

If the funding is right, so is the data.
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Old 18 November 2022, 12:08 PM   #17
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Green electricity fuel.
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Old 18 November 2022, 12:15 PM   #18
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Green electricity fuel.
I agree, it doesn’t really do a lot to reduce emissions if the electricity that powers EVs is derived from burning coal. I only hope renewables will continue to increase. Some countries have a goal of being 100% renewable by 2050. I hope they (we as a race) can achieve that.
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Old 18 November 2022, 01:51 PM   #19
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Definitely worth a watch, short and concise.

Part 1

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2HneqfZGsM

Part 2

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptI6BRVC1Kw
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Old 18 November 2022, 02:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MEDIASAPIENS View Post
Questions I have for electric car advocates:

1. Where to get clean electricity for millions of eclectic cars coming online?
2. With World economy gobbling up more and more electricity due to IT tech should we diversify transportation away from electricity consumption to avoid perfect storm?
3. If we press on with millions of electric cars who is going to pay for recycling of lithium batteries when landfills are full of them already. (less than 1% of batteries are being recycled currently).
4. Are you aware of how much mining is required to get the components for a battery (lithium, cobalt, magnesium, vanadium etc etc)......big big big holes in the ground.

ps. I have a movie being produced not far from home and they have a little van with a sign on the side saying "Green Power Systems", its a diesel generator.
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Old 18 November 2022, 02:22 PM   #21
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Definitely worth a watch, short and concise.



Part 1



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2HneqfZGsM



Part 2



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptI6BRVC1Kw
Is too much truth for most people that have been brainwashed. One thing I wonder why people don't mention more often is that oil is natural it comes from the Earth it is not man made. I understand you have to refine it but don't they have to do something similar with the batteries. I feel much better driving to my gas powered car now. Thanks for sharing this video.

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Old 18 November 2022, 02:29 PM   #22
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Lithium prices are up more than 5 times since the start of the year. As far as I know almost all lithium refining is done in China though western legislation is attempting to change that. I think it’s easier said than done for a western company to refine Lithium profitably and stay compliant with environmental laws. Otherwise they’d have done it already.
Let's not get into rare earth, it's pretty much in anything electronic. The US are funding a company that name escapes me in Malaysia but takes years to get up and running.
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Old 18 November 2022, 02:40 PM   #23
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We need cars that run on horses#!+
Then people can ride the horses
New jobs for horses#!+ gatherers
Who drive trucks that run on horses#!+
And we’ll all eat Soylent Green


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Old 18 November 2022, 11:52 PM   #24
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^^^ so we all turn Amish... with a twist <(^-^)>
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Old 19 November 2022, 12:18 AM   #25
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[

If the funding is right, so is the data.
100% correct.

I tried to buy an EV from March through October. They either weren't available or they wanted $5,000-$25,000 over MSRP. No thanks. Went with a Toyota hybrid and couldn't be happier. EV's are the future, but not close to being there yet.
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Old 19 November 2022, 02:11 AM   #26
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No, EVs are still the future. In CA they stopped the subsidized tax benefits a year ago, sales continue to climb. The EU will outlaw new ICE vehicles in some countries in 2032, others 2035. The US has several states including two of the three most populous, New York and California, will also adopt the no-new-ICE vehicles by 2035.
Add Washington State to the list as well which is adopting the no new ICE cars by 2035. I do love my electric car (Tesla) though, once you own one it’s hard to even contemplate or consider going back to an ICE.
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Old 19 November 2022, 02:40 AM   #27
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Disclaimer: I own a Tesla as well as a V8 6.2L GMC

In a past investment, I was affiliated with a power storage company who manufactured lithium and lead-acid batteries for EV vehicles and golf carts, etc. I must admit that we are years and years away from an environmentally responsible solution to power EV vehicles. Lithium is as of this decade impossible to recycle and ends up being a massive pollutant to the planet. Lead acid is far more recyclable but the production associated with lead (smelting) is very dirty and most US based plants have been decommissioned.

Putting the safety factor aside (Lithium still has issues to overcome), I think we will need a more sustainable power solution for EVs
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Old 19 November 2022, 02:48 AM   #28
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Yeah, we Californians are a crazy bunch. What do you think of New York, Washington? How about the COUNTRIES of Belgium, Iceland, Germany, Ireland, Israel ETC. Of course, all those thousands of scientists, environmentalists, engineers, all of them must be wrong.
Not saying they are wrong but don't think the mandates to change to EV are feasible. Every state isn't going to follow California.
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Old 19 November 2022, 03:08 AM   #29
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Love gas powered cars, but also like tech and new EVs. Can't wait to see the first Cybertrucks driving through my country, I want one!
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Old 19 November 2022, 03:25 AM   #30
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Love gas powered cars, but also like tech and new EVs. Can't wait to see the first Cybertrucks driving through my country, I want one!
Good to see you back on the TRF, hope you're doing well
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