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Old 17 December 2021, 01:46 AM   #3031
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I don’t understand this either. Lewis almost seemed to be baiting Max at the start of the final lap, letting him far too close and wide open on the inside. Perhaps he conceded that Max was going to get by him anyway and he could impose a line for Max that might take him wide on exit so he could retake him in the next corner?

Safety car or not, there really is no excuse for Mercedes to lose a race that LH was able to quickly pull out a 10+ sec lead in. Red Bull raced to win while Mercedes appeared to be racing not to lose. Fascinating finish to a dream season for fans.


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From what I saw,I dont see MAX passing SIR HAM on the outside in the one lap .

Why was he so wide leaving the inside wide open for the car with the fresh soft tires that can outbreak him ?
When Hamilton gained later on Verstappen kept the inside shut .
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Old 17 December 2021, 03:45 AM   #3032
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I’m guessing the MB cars were “tactically delayed”. Gala-goers will likely see the MB cars now that the Appeal is withdrawn.


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Not having the F1 constructors car present is another example of Mercedes being sore losers. Toto and Lewis not attending in Paris yet another example. When you've had your way for 8 years, it's a tough pill to swallow and understandable, but sack up, be men or at the very least, if you can't be a man then be a professional. This is EXACTLY why people around the globe can't stand Mercedes, Hamilton, and Toto.
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:01 AM   #3033
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Nobody comes out of this well. For Verstappen it will always be a tainted victory and for Hamilton he will always feel robbed. The sport itself looks inept and what should have been one of the greatest seasons ever ended in farcical chaos and controversy.
Bad situation all round.
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:14 AM   #3034
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Not having the F1 constructors car present is another example of Mercedes being sore losers. Toto and Lewis not attending in Paris yet another example. When you've had your way for 8 years, it's a tough pill to swallow and understandable, but sack up, be men or at the very least, if you can't be a man then be a professional. This is EXACTLY why people around the globe can't stand Mercedes, Hamilton, and Toto.
He is too busy accepting his knighthood from the very same people that do not support his same views off the track but he will get social media likes so he is accepting the offer.
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:36 AM   #3035
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He is too busy accepting his knighthood from the very same people that do not support his same views off the track but he will get social media likes so he is accepting the offer.
you're absolutely right, he should decline knighthood and be hated by his entire home country instead

and what part of how he lost was handled badly by him? loses in the worst way and the first thing he does is congratulate max then tells merc to withdraw the appeal. nothing wrong with hating on him but some of the takes in this thread are hilarious lol
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:43 AM   #3036
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you're absolutely right, he should decline knighthood and be hated by his entire home country instead

and what part of how he lost was handled badly by him? loses in the worst way and the first thing he does is congratulate max then tells merc to withdraw the appeal. nothing wrong with hating on him but some of the takes in this thread are hilarious lol
Initially I said how magnanimous Lewis was to compose himself in the car and how he handled himself immediately after the race. Silly me, as all the cameras were on him and I should have known from his history that he's just an attention seeker. Subsequently, he missed the mandatory news conference after the race. Okay, he's still upset.

Mario Andretti writes a beautiful comment on how he handled himself with grace. Very nice... But Hamilton's actions speak louder than words as he is mandated to be in Paris for the ceremony but will not be there. Very childish and unprofessional. IF he truly wanted to make a statement, he would have skipped the SA GP as well as Qatar for their human rights abuses, but that would actually have cost him something and he can't have that. World Class Ahole.
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:44 AM   #3037
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you're absolutely right, he should decline knighthood and be hated by his entire home country instead
No this is why he should decline the offer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4eR9AZC6Kc

But then again if it gets you in the news and social media clicks then go for it and forget about all the alleged "social injustice" you have been allegedly fighting for off the track. It is called hypocrisy.
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:51 AM   #3038
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No this is why he should decline the offer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4eR9AZC6Kc

But then again if it gets you in the news and social media clicks then go for it and forget about all the alleged "social injustice" you have been allegedly fighting for off the track. It is called hypocrisy.
i think we should leave this out of this thread so it doesn't get locked but that whole story had a lot of twists done by media and PR. it's basically he said/she said/they said at this point but in the end, lewis was born there and offered knighthood. i think declining it would be a really bad look and turn his own country against him. either way i think we should leave that out of here. i personally think he handled himself well this loss and as a fan i can admit he's handled some very poorly (like during the season with rosberg)
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:54 AM   #3039
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Initially I said how magnanimous Lewis was to compose himself in the car and how he handled himself immediately after the race. Silly me, as all the cameras were on him and I should have known from his history that he's just an attention seeker. Subsequently, he missed the mandatory news conference after the race. Okay, he's still upset.

Mario Andretti writes a beautiful comment on how he handled himself with grace. Very nice... But Hamilton's actions speak louder than words as he is mandated to be in Paris for the ceremony but will not be there. Very childish and unprofessional. IF he truly wanted to make a statement, he would have skipped the SA GP as well as Qatar for their human rights abuses, but that would actually have cost him something and he can't have that. World Class Ahole.
him skipping the race would essentially screw over the entire mercedes team and their hard work and sleepless nights. i don't really see how NOT doing that makes him a bad person...
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:56 AM   #3040
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I thought we were just leaving it so the thread doesn't get locked. Or is that AFTER you get your final words in.
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Old 17 December 2021, 05:59 AM   #3041
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I thought we were just leaving it so the thread doesn't get locked. Or is that AFTER you get your final words in.
all i said was there were a lot of rumors in that story so which part of that was political?
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:04 AM   #3042
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you're absolutely right, he should decline knighthood and be hated by his entire home country instead

and what part of how he lost was handled badly by him? loses in the worst way and the first thing he does is congratulate max then tells merc to withdraw the appeal. nothing wrong with hating on him but some of the takes in this thread are hilarious lol
Say what..??
Oh, so you would Decline knighthood.. Seriously..??
This isn't like the few actors who declined the Oscar for 'whatever' reason they believed in and was politically correct and relevant at the time and still carry on with their careers.
.
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loses in the worst way and the first thing he does is congratulate max then tells merc to withdraw the appeal.
.
statement Kinda contradictory isn't it..in that he was 'gentlemanly' enough to do that. - as apposed to ragging on Max and/or RB.
As far as the race goes...Sh*t happens as it has before..and will again.
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:05 AM   #3043
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him skipping the race would essentially screw over the entire mercedes team and their hard work and sleepless nights. i don't really see how NOT doing that makes him a bad person...
That's a really fair point although Mercedes was so close to locking up the constructors title putting Russell in the car would have given the team and net net result. Russell basically performed the same as Lewis would have in a car when LH got Covid and Russell didn't fit in properly, had to wear sizes smaller shoes for the foot well and didn't know what buttons to push on the steering wheel.

The parallel to 2016 when Rosberg beat Hamilton is spot on. When people show you who they are, believe them.
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:05 AM   #3044
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Say what..??
Oh, so you would Decline knighthood.. Seriously..??
This isn't like the few actors who declined the Oscar for 'whatever' reason they believed in and was politically correct and relevant at the time and still carry on with their careers.
.

.
statement Kinda contradictory isn't it..in that he was 'gentlemanly' enough to do that. - as apposed to ragging on Max and/or RB.
As far as the race goes...Sh*t happens as it has before..and will again.
lol oscars really? who cares about oscars or grammys anymore. those are literally pointless awards. i doubt anything would happen to his career but i imagine it would damage his image but i could be wrong. i don't live there so that was just an assumption. it's obvious he cares about his image but again, not sure if that would be something offensive to his fans over there or not. if knighthood is something no one cares about there then i take it back
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:15 AM   #3045
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lol oscars really? who cares about oscars or grammys anymore. those are literally pointless awards. i doubt anything would happen to his career but i imagine it would damage his image but i could be wrong. i don't live there so that was just an assumption. it's obvious he cares about his image but again, not sure if that would be something offensive to his fans over there or not. if knighthood is something no one cares about there then i take it back
I was using the Oscars as a reference for a highly visible venue as a soap box. I'm not into the Oscars or such either.
I doubt LH image is damaged at all. After F1, he'll still be a highlight in the media.
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:17 AM   #3046
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That's a really fair point although Mercedes was so close to locking up the constructors title putting Russell in the car would have given the team and net net result. Russell basically performed the same as Lewis would have in a car when LH got Covid and Russell didn't fit in properly, had to wear sizes smaller shoes for the foot well and didn't know what buttons to push on the steering wheel.

The parallel to 2016 when Rosberg beat Hamilton is spot on. When people show you who they are, believe them.
true, forgot they could've put russell in as well and been ok but still think that would be pretty douchey on his part especially since he obviously respects toto and the rest of the team. he's for sure not perfect and 2016 showed it. but also the biggest issue is these guys get microphones shoved in their faces right after losing and that's when even the most humble people can sound like aholes. i can't imagine losing normally and having a mic and cameras shoved in my face asking me how i feel or why i think we lost lol, and then i think of the way he lost on sunday with all the context (would be the most wins in history) idk i personally think he did ok here. i think mercedes just really want to make a statement that what happened wasn't ok, i don't really think they'd do this had they lost normally, do you?

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I was using the Oscars as a reference for a highly visible venue as a soap box. I'm not into the Oscars or such either.
I doubt LH image is damaged at all. After F1, he'll still be a highlight in the media.
in this case oscars is just within the movie business but i guess i worded that initial post incorrectly. i assumed it would be seen as disrespectful but could be wrong, or could have been his dream since a kid. we don't have anything like that here obviously lol
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:24 AM   #3047
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Red Bull raced to win while Mercedes appeared to be racing not to lose. Fascinating finish to a dream season for fans.
Correct.
Haven't bothered to watch F1 for years ,but next year I will follow .
I think its going to be a very exciting year .
I hope Ferrari is on par with Red Bull and Mercedes .


PS: 2022 cars very sleek designs ,nicer looking compared to 2021.
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:44 AM   #3048
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lol oscars really? who cares about oscars or grammys anymore. those are literally pointless awards. i doubt anything would happen to his career but i imagine it would damage his image but i could be wrong. i don't live there so that was just an assumption. it's obvious he cares about his image but again, not sure if that would be something offensive to his fans over there or not. if knighthood is something no one cares about there then i take it back
It's a tricky one. I am British and not really a fan, I think he is a bit whiney (I have said that before in this thread) but, I certainly belief he deserves his knighthood, lots have got one for less. If he had turned it down, I am sure that I would have definitely taken a dislike to him, as I would suspect many of the older generation (my age) would have. I am not sure it would have bothered the younger generation that much though.

Not having a car at the awards was not his choice but Mercedes but some here want to blame him for that, as far as I can see he was quite gracious in defeat but many here want to bring him down for some reason. He asked Mercedes not to pursue the court route. RBR and MV in previous disputes have not been the "white as driven snow angels" they are made out to be by some of MV apologists here.
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:52 AM   #3049
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It's a tricky one. I am British and not really a fan, I think he is a bit whiney (I have said that before in this thread) but, I certainly belief he deserves his knighthood, lots have got one for less. If he had turned it down, I am sure that I would have definitely taken a dislike to him, as I would suspect many of the older generation (my age) would have. I am not sure it would have bothered the younger generation that much though.

Not having a car at the awards was not his choice but Mercedes but some here want to blame him for that, as far as I can see he was quite gracious in defeat but many here want to bring him down for some reason. He asked Mercedes not to pursue the court route. RBR and MV in previous disputes have not been the "white as driven snow angels" they are made out to be by some of MV apologists here.
that's what i assumed as well - that it would divide his fan base in his own country by quite a bit and that's not exactly ideal. regarding the car, some things are bigger than him. at the end of the day mercedes is a giant company and have their own agenda and that should not be used against him personally, so i agree
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Old 17 December 2021, 06:55 AM   #3050
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him skipping the race would essentially screw over the entire mercedes team and their hard work and sleepless nights. i don't really see how NOT doing that makes him a bad person...

An alternative thought is if HAM had skipped a race or two, then the Reserve Driver would have had a shot at an F1 start or two.

The team would have worked just the same to help the RD win/place/show.


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Old 17 December 2021, 07:00 AM   #3051
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Old 17 December 2021, 07:06 AM   #3052
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That's a really fair point although Mercedes was so close to locking up the constructors title putting Russell in the car would have given the team and net net result. Russell basically performed the same as Lewis would have in a car when LH got Covid and Russell didn't fit in properly, had to wear sizes smaller shoes for the foot well and didn't know what buttons to push on the steering wheel.

The parallel to 2016 when Rosberg beat Hamilton is spot on. When people show you who they are, believe them.
Skipping a race would essentially guarantee the WDC to Max. You don't think those mechanics, engineers, and people at the factory also want to win the WDC? Look how crazy the RB garage went when Max won the WDC even though the WCC was lost.
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Old 17 December 2021, 07:12 AM   #3053
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Skipping a race would essentially guarantee the WDC to Max. You don't think those mechanics, engineers, and people at the factory also want to win the WDC? Look how crazy the RB garage went when Max won the WDC even though the WCC was lost.

Yes the HAM side of the garage would be disappointed temporarily. But the bonuses at year end for the Constructor’s Cup might assuage their feelings.


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Old 17 December 2021, 07:22 AM   #3054
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It's a tricky one. I am British and not really a fan, I think he is a bit whiney (I have said that before in this thread) but, I certainly belief he deserves his knighthood, lots have got one for less. If he had turned it down, I am sure that I would have definitely taken a dislike to him, as I would suspect many of the older generation (my age) would have. I am not sure it would have bothered the younger generation that much though.

Not having a car at the awards was not his choice but Mercedes but some here want to blame him for that, as far as I can see he was quite gracious in defeat but many here want to bring him down for some reason. He asked Mercedes not to pursue the court route. RBR and MV in previous disputes have not been the "white as driven snow angels" they are made out to be by some of MV apologists here.

Good points Dave - one item of note, though. His choice not to appear tonight contravenes a long-standing rule that the Top 3 in points “must” appear.

Article 6.6:
The drivers finishing first, second and third in the Championship must be present at the annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony.

I don’t know if FIA will grind salt into the wound, but they expected him there. Not attending was a personal choice he may regret later. It goes to the core of character methinks.


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Old 17 December 2021, 07:25 AM   #3055
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Yes the HAM side of the garage would be disappointed temporarily. But the bonuses at year end for the Constructor’s Cup might assuage their feelings.


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As hard as it is to believe, money isn't the only motivator. If that were the case then the Mercedes team wouldn't care that the WDC was lost.
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Old 17 December 2021, 07:28 AM   #3056
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Good points Dave - one item of note, though. His choice not to appear tonight contravenes a long-standing rule that the Top 3 in points “must” appear.

Article 6.6:
The drivers finishing first, second and third in the Championship must be present at the annual FIA Prize Giving ceremony.

I don’t know if FIA will grind salt into the wound, but they expected him there. Not attending was a personal choice he may regret later. It goes to the core of character methinks.
Thanks Paul, I didn't know that.
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Old 17 December 2021, 07:29 AM   #3057
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As hard as it is to believe, money isn't the only motivator. If that were the case then the Mercedes team wouldn't care that the WDC was lost.
Understand Robert. Just saying the engineers, etc have so many changing teams every year or two that triumph and despair alternatively courses through their veins in a Kiplingesque manner.


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Old 17 December 2021, 08:44 AM   #3058
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Perhaps most surprising is the composure of class shown by Hamilton in the aftermath.  It looked like he took his time to process all that happened while still in the cockpit and was magnanimous in defeat.  It's great to see both fathers speaking with their adult sons.  What a 2021 season!!!
My comment and praise of Hamilton didn't age well... a leopard can't change his spots.

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Not having a car at the awards was not his choice but Mercedes but some here want to blame him for that, as far as I can see he was quite gracious in defeat but many here want to bring him down for some reason. He asked Mercedes not to pursue the court route. RBR and MV in previous disputes have not been the "white as driven snow angels" they are made out to be by some of MV apologists here.
No one said it was Lewis' decision to not bring the car to the FIA gala with all the other series winning cars, that falls squarely on Toto and Mercedes. But it was his decision to not attend the Paris awards ceremony when he is bound to be there.

And no one is apologizing for Max or Red Bull as they didn't do anything wrong. Everyone understands Merc/Hamilton have issues with Masi but complete your obligations and come out with a purpose and focus next year.
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Old 17 December 2021, 09:04 AM   #3059
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It’s been the best season for a very long time.

We don’t know the drivers, so can’t really judge them as people. The media manipulate us more than we tend to think.

MV is champion and a very very worthy one.

LH is an incredible driver and would have been an equally worthy champion if the rub of the green in the final race had gone a different way.

We are very lucky to have two spectacularly good drivers and next season will hopefully be epically good.

Almost everything else is fuelled by bias and can be argued either way.


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Old 17 December 2021, 09:14 AM   #3060
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Unsure how one can be a sore loser, when you lose a championship based on regulations being applied creatively. They have every right to protest it, and RB would have done the same. It's a years worth of work being thrown into the bin, because of a creative racing director.

There is a reason why there has been discussion with both FIA and F1 and that a new initiative has come forward look into the matter - it's because it's not a clear cut case.

I actually think they show class by withdrawing it, but at the same time holding FIA and F1 accountable.

Inclined to agree. Rightly or wrongly, RB would absolutely have done the same, and anyone who thinks otherwise is putting bias ahead of intelligence.


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